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10mm Self Defense: A Suitable Defensive Cartridge?

Talyn

Talyn

SAINT
Founding Member
What cartridge is already proven as a stellar performer with a lot of guns chambered in it? 10mm Auto, of course.

10mm Self Defense

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Good article, although brief. I own and love shooting 10mm, but I've read countless articles talking about the legal liability of carrying 10mm and what prosecutors will do to you if you shoot someone with 10mm in a defense scenario. The guy in AZ comes to mind (some years ago, Paul Harrell discussed it in-depth in one of his uploads). I need to research more about self-defense situations (real ones) with 10mm and the legal results that ensued.

What do you call a lawyer at the bottom of the ocean? (fill in the punch line below if you like :cool:).
 
Jfal said:
Good article, although brief. I own and love shooting 10mm, but I've read countless articles talking about the legal liability of carrying 10mm and what prosecutors will do to you if you shoot someone with 10mm in a defense scenario. The guy in AZ comes to mind (some years ago, Paul Harrell discussed it in-depth in one of his uploads). I need to research more about self-defense situations (real ones) with 10mm and the legal results that ensued.

What do you call a lawyer at the bottom of the ocean? (fill in the punch line below if you like :cool:).
Click to expand...

Punchline: “A good start” (but let’s keep that from our resident lawyer Benstt 😉).
It’s no wonder lawyers will get involved in 10mm shootings. If a 9mm will blow a lung out of one’s body, I can’t imagine what a 10mm would do. 😬🤫
 
Bassbob said:
I guess than .357, .44, .45, 5.56 and 12 gauge are all overkill then ?
Click to expand...
Good point, but lawyers are lawyers. We aren't (I wasn't) talking about efficacy....just the legal aspect. I've read a LOT about 10mm as a defensive caliber being a bad idea from the legal perspective. I'd like more data. Until then I still carry 9mm, even if my 10mm is "better" (which we all know it is...).
 
Jfal said:
Good point, but lawyers are lawyers. We aren't (I wasn't) talking about efficacy....just the legal aspect. I've read a LOT about 10mm as a defensive caliber being a bad idea from the legal perspective. I'd like more data. Until then I still carry 9mm, even if my 10mm is "better" (which we all know it is...).
Click to expand...
That doesn't make sense even legally. Can anyone point to a single example of it ever being an issue ?
 
Is it too much?

Depends on the load chosen. I would think a heavy hard cast solid may be “too much” for defense against 2 legged threats, yes…but a lighter JHP at a more sedate velocity would be just fine.

I did always like the Silvertip for defense when I considered the 10mm for carry.
 
Bassbob said:
That doesn't make sense even legally. Can anyone point to a single example of it ever being an issue ?
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Most people will reference the Harold Fish case.

Here's a snippet from one of the trial investigators.

The firearms investigator said that Fish’s gun — a 10mm — is more powerful than what police officers use and is not typically used for personal protection. And the ammunition Fish used to shoot Kuenzli three times, called “a hollow-point bullet,” is made to expand when it enters the body

When he decided to pull the trigger, the prosecutor said, Fish should have known what the consequences would be.
www.nbcnews.com

Trail of evidence

The man on trial for murder is a father of 7 with no criminal record. He was a retired schoolteacher whose hobby was hiking. But Harold Fish is accused of killing an unarmed man, a total stranger, just seconds after they met on the same hiking trail. The question is why? John Larson reports.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
BET7 said:
Punchline: “A good start” (but let’s keep that from our resident lawyer Benstt 😉).
It’s no wonder lawyers will get involved in 10mm shootings. If a 9mm will blow a lung out of one’s body, I can’t imagine what a 10mm would do. 😬🤫
Click to expand...
Lungs shot with 10mm pop out of the chest and run down the street. I saw it happen. Really. No joke.
 
10mmLife said:
Most people will reference the Harold Fish case.

Here's a snippet from one of the trial investigators.

The firearms investigator said that Fish’s gun — a 10mm — is more powerful than what police officers use and is not typically used for personal protection. And the ammunition Fish used to shoot Kuenzli three times, called “a hollow-point bullet,” is made to expand when it enters the body

When he decided to pull the trigger, the prosecutor said, Fish should have known what the consequences would be.
www.nbcnews.com

Trail of evidence

The man on trial for murder is a father of 7 with no criminal record. He was a retired schoolteacher whose hobby was hiking. But Harold Fish is accused of killing an unarmed man, a total stranger, just seconds after they met on the same hiking trail. The question is why? John Larson reports.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
Click to expand...
Considering the following info, he should have used a .223/5.56.

Ballistic performance
Bullet mass/typeVelocityEnergy
3.56 g (55 gr) XM193 FMJBT993 m/s (3,260 ft/s)1,755 J (1,294 ft⋅lbf)
4 g (62 gr) SS109 FMJBT948 m/s (3,110 ft/s)1,797 J (1,325 ft⋅lbf)
4 g (62 gr) M855A1 FMJBT961 m/s (3,150 ft/s)1,859 J (1,371 ft⋅lbf)
4.1 g (63 gr) DM11 FMJBT856 m/s (2,810 ft/s)1,796 J (1,325 ft⋅lbf)
4.1 g (63 gr) GP 90 FMJBT851 m/s (2,790 ft/s)1,679 J (1,238 ft⋅lbf)
Test barrel length: 508 mm (20.0 in)

The 10mm has ~500 lbs less energy than a the above loads.

Ballistic performance
Bullet mass/typeVelocityEnergy
175 gr (11 g) STHP Winchester1,290 ft/s (390 m/s)649 ft⋅lbf (880 J)
180 gr (12 g) FMJ Federal1,300 ft/s (400 m/s)708 ft⋅lbf (960 J)
77 gr (5 g) RBCD TFSP2,420 ft/s (740 m/s)1,001 ft⋅lbf (1,357 J)
155 gr (10 g) Underwood XTP-JHP1,500 ft/s (460 m/s)775 ft⋅lbf (1,051 J)
155 gr (10 g) Underwood FMJ-FN1,500 ft/s (460 m/s)775 ft⋅lbf (1,051 J)
Test barrel length: 117 millimetres (4.6 inches)
Source(s): Underwood Ammunition XTP-JHP

Obviously the judge, prosecuto & defense attorney were/are incompetant.

Last time I checked the 2nd Amendment doesn't list a performance limitation/threshold for firearms used to defend oneself.
 
The guy should have used a 218 Bee since it has more ft lbs of energy in most loads than a 10mm.

Ballistic performance
Bullet mass/typeVelocityEnergy
35 gr (2 g) VMax3,205 ft/s (977 m/s)799 ft⋅lbf (1,083 J)
40 gr (3 g) BT3,130 ft/s (950 m/s)870 ft⋅lbf (1,180 J)
46 gr (3 g) JFP2,708 ft/s (825 m/s)749 ft⋅lbf (1,016 J)
50 gr (3 g) BT2,654 ft/s (809 m/s)782 ft⋅lbf (1,060 J)
Source(s): Hodgdon [2]
 
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