Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Suppressors: Are They Worth the Trouble?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/suppressors-are-they-worth-the-trouble/.
Suppressors: Are They Worth the Trouble?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
RickAnderson
Custom
There are some new suppressor designs that redirect and flow the gases out of the suppressor, the idea being, they don't dirty up your weapon as bad by getting rid of the gases instead of trapping them and allowing them to back flow into the weapon.
I can't find the following concept discussed anywhere, just the correlation (which doesn't mean causation); the idea that gases with carbon in them, the more they cool before leaving the device, the greater the carbon build-up in that device.
So I'm guessing, cause I can't find anything explaining it, gases with carbon in them, as they cool the carbon comes out of the gas and settles on the closest surfaces. I'm not saying its a carbon vapor or evaporated carbon, but it is in suspension or perhaps more likely, the gases are continuing to burn the last of the fuel/propellant and producing the carbon byproduct.
Suppressors, although you don't intend on cooling the gases, but trap the noise, you can't do that without the gases cooling still inside your suppressor and weapon. And thus, all the byproduct inside the weapon.
I can't find the following concept discussed anywhere, just the correlation (which doesn't mean causation); the idea that gases with carbon in them, the more they cool before leaving the device, the greater the carbon build-up in that device.
So I'm guessing, cause I can't find anything explaining it, gases with carbon in them, as they cool the carbon comes out of the gas and settles on the closest surfaces. I'm not saying its a carbon vapor or evaporated carbon, but it is in suspension or perhaps more likely, the gases are continuing to burn the last of the fuel/propellant and producing the carbon byproduct.
Suppressors, although you don't intend on cooling the gases, but trap the noise, you can't do that without the gases cooling still inside your suppressor and weapon. And thus, all the byproduct inside the weapon.
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RickAnderson
Custom
How often are suppressors actually used in a crime?
Pro-Suppressor people make a valid point, the crime statistics quoted about suppressors, are simply the crime of possessing a suppressor without a tax stamp or in a state where they are banned. Not them being used in the commission of a crime.
It appears they were regulated a 100 years ago simply on the claim, no one needs a suppressor.
Pro-Suppressor people make a valid point, the crime statistics quoted about suppressors, are simply the crime of possessing a suppressor without a tax stamp or in a state where they are banned. Not them being used in the commission of a crime.
It appears they were regulated a 100 years ago simply on the claim, no one needs a suppressor.
Jfal
Professional
While I do not know this for a fact, I've read ad nauseam that Chicago mafia(s) used them a bit in the 30's, thus they were regulated. Today I don't think they are used much at all...at least not that I read about...
RickAnderson
Custom
You'd assume you need one for every caliber, but I saw a review about using a .45 suppressor on a 9mm with a thread adapter. And yes the sound level went up, but not much at all, not as much as you would expect.
But yes, I'm sure you couldn't get away with using the same suppressor for vastly different rounds just using a thread adapters. I doubt a .45 ACP suppressor adapted to a 5.56mm rifle would work very well, if not the suppressor come apart.
RickAnderson
Custom
I started the process with my son, so we did a trust, and ultimately my son lost interested and never completed all his paper work. He is active duty stationed on the other side of the country. So I deleted my e-form application with the ATF, no reason to leave all that information for them to look at it if I'm not going to ever finish it. Its easy to go back and re-enter and upload again if I want to try later. We did finish the gun trust, and there are lots of good reasons to have one, especially now-a-days with the anti-gun agenda's.
What I learned, and keep in mind, I only started the process and didn't finish it, so take it with a grain of salt.
Applying for a Tax Stamp with a trust, as a way to make it easier and speed up the process, is a thing of the past it is no longer necessary.
At the same time, to apply with a trust is not that much harder to do and there are good reasons to have one, so if you think there would be any reason you might want a trust, then you should do it.
The ATF changed a lot of the rules to fix the problems that were giving people hassles and road blocks, that making a trust would get around that. One was getting your CLEO to sign a form for you to get your tax stamp, and today Public Servants don't Serve the Public impartially anymore, they serve political agendas. Too many Police Chiefs and Sheriffs were simply refusing to sign the form on no other grounds than they believed, "You don't need a "X" that requires a tax stamp". The ATF changed the rule to that you just send a letter to your CLEO that you are applying for a tax stamp, if they want to do something about it, they have to contact the ATF and justified why you should be denied a tax stamp. In the past, you could form a gun trust and not need the CLEO signature, as a way to get around an activist CLEO. That is no longer needed.
RickAnderson
Custom
An NFA item (SBR's, Suppressor, etc that require a tax stamp) cannot be out of your possession. No one can ever borrow it. Other people can only use it under your direct supervision, i.e. you standing right behind them.
If something happens to you, no one can inherit it without doing all the paper work to transfer the tax stamp within 30 days. (correct me where I'm wrong on the details).
If something happens to you, and your family members have no idea what that NFA item is and what is required for them to possess it, and they inherit it by default. You just made your family members a Felon 30 days later and they never knew it.
If circumstance ever come up where you need to leave your NFA with someone for safe keeping, and they do happen and sometimes in circumstance that don't allow the time to complete the processes, you can't do it without committing a felony.
If something happens to you, no one can inherit it without doing all the paper work to transfer the tax stamp within 30 days. (correct me where I'm wrong on the details).
If something happens to you, and your family members have no idea what that NFA item is and what is required for them to possess it, and they inherit it by default. You just made your family members a Felon 30 days later and they never knew it.
If circumstance ever come up where you need to leave your NFA with someone for safe keeping, and they do happen and sometimes in circumstance that don't allow the time to complete the processes, you can't do it without committing a felony.
RickAnderson
Custom
Well a letter is needed, but you don't need your CLEO's permission. You send a letter to them informing them your applying for a Tax Stamp. You don't need a letter with their signature giving you permission, or really just confirming there is no reason you can't have a tax stamp. Instead of doing their job, of confirming there is no reason you can't have a tax stamp under the law, they simply refuse to sign and deny you that, for their own personal or political reasons.
RickAnderson
Custom
And not making a judgement on your attitude, just simply stating a fact, you likely will be on your death bed still waiting for them to be no longer regulated.
And just to clarify, you do understand to make your own suppressor will get you put in jail just as likely as buying a manufactured one from a drug dealer without a tax stamp.
There are cases of someone just thread an oil filter on the end of their firearm being put into prison, with no record of any crime previous. You'd think if anyone deserved charges dropped and given a warning, or simple given probation, it would be this. BUT, that is not the attitude of a lot of people with anti-gun agendas.
RickAnderson
Custom
Yep, there are all sorts of reasons to have co-owners as long as you can trust them. And simplify's all sorts of situations that can come up. Not the least, an easy transfer on inheritance, that if it is late or screwed up in a time when the last thing an inheritor wants to do is paper work with the ATF.
So if your going to apply for a tax stamp you want to do it online with the E-Forms. It is easier and faster.
Before the current administration, typically the e-form to build your own suppressor was taking 3 months to be approved, while the e-form to purchased a manufactured suppressor was taking a year. I had heard it was coming back within 9-6 months. So making your own suppressor was becoming very popular. Since the new administration, I have heard conflicting things, some saying they are slow walking the applications even worse than before, to them not ever completing them, to its no worse than before. So I really don't know what is actually true.
If you apply for one with a Gun Trust, you have to have your trust done first. Its a power of attorney just for firearms. You can go to a local lawyer and ask him to draw one up, or you can find several different organizations that have a lawyer do them online for you, for like $50. If you get an online one, you have to go to a notary and sign with notarization, all the members of the trust have to sign at least once, usually in a couple of places. The typical format has trustee's signing on seperate pages. So if you're not co-located with the trustee's they can get their pages notarized and send them to you to put the whole package together. I asked and they said, yes, it is acceptable for trustee's to sign with a different notary and send the pages to the Settlor (head of the trust), and its common as well.
When you do the application as a gun trust, you upload a scan of the gun trust and then you upload the forms for yourself and the rest of the trustees also. That part is an extra 5 minutes. The hard part is the trustee's have to do the same paperwork.
That includes filling out the form, its not much different the Background check forms and signing them.
A passport photo, you don't actually have to pay for a passport photo, you can DIY, just follow the rules for a passport photo, otherwise it will be rejected.
And a FBI form fingerprint card. That is the toughest one. You can email a government office and have the FBI cards sent to you for free, it takes 2 weeks, order a fingerprint ink pad off amazon and DIY. Make sure to request 3 times as many as you need because you will screw it up, or search for a fingerprint service or often your local law enforcement offer it as a service.
So that is the hassle of applying as a Gun Trust, its not filling out the eform, that takes an extra 5 minutes. It is collecting up all the forms from all the trustee's and the fingerprint part can be a hassle as well.
Once you submit the eform, you have like 5 days (I think I'm wrong, it will tell when you do the forms) to mail the original of all the forms you scanned and uploaded to the ATF, and send the letter to your CLEO.
Bassbob
Emissary
Dude, you might want to re-read my post. Particularly this part.
"I may get a suppressor. AFTER they are no longer regulated. EVEN THEN I don't see me paying $500 for one. I might make one."
Where in this sentence do I in any way intimate that I am willing to break the law to build my own suppressor? I could give two
s about a suppressor. I clearly said AFTER they were no longer regulated I would still not drop big money on one. AFTER they were no longer regulated I MAY just build my own. It's really bad form to suggest people are saying they would break federal law on an open internet forum when they clearly aren't saying that at all.Let me be even more clear. I don't care about anything the government regulates under the NFA enough to register it and pay the tax. I am not interested in short barreled rifles and I am not interested in suppressors. Frankly I don't care about the new brace rules either since I have never liked a brace. I'd rather hold the tube against my cheek. Nevertheless, it is ridiculous government over reach and I oppose it vehemently. I am also not all that excited about full auto. I have shot other people's LEGALLY POSSESSED fully automatic rifles. Yeah it's fun for about 37 seconds, but I see little practicality in it. That said, it's ridiculous that the government is able to prohibit it.
uspatriot1960
Custom
Going through an organization like Silencer Shop will help with all the paperwork. You can purchase a trust from them for like $25 and it gets electronically sent to the ATF. Many local gun shops also have Silencer Shop kiosks where you can download your photo from your phone and you can do your fingerprints right at the kiosk. The process is pretty simple. You can also do a trust and have only yourself as the responsible person. After you are approved you can add someone else, but you don’t have to initially.
eForm 4 times right now are around 7 months. Not near as quick as the ATF initially stated. I’m over 7 months on my first suppressor that I bought. I have another that’s been waiting for about 6 months.
eForm 4 times right now are around 7 months. Not near as quick as the ATF initially stated. I’m over 7 months on my first suppressor that I bought. I have another that’s been waiting for about 6 months.
A standard velocity 9mm will always be louder than a standard velocity .45acp because a standard velocity 9mm break the sound barrier negating some of the sound reduction. I mostly shoot subsonic loads through my suppressors. A dedicated center-fire pistol or rifle suppressor will most likely only give a minor decibel reduction difference vs a multiple caliber suppressor.