Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Russian Ka-52 Alligator Attack Helicopter: An Endangered Species?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/russian-ka-52-alligator-attack-helicopter/.
Russian Ka-52 Alligator Attack Helicopter: An Endangered Species?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Cedric
Custom
The key is combined arms operations. The attack helicopter is not an endangered species; deep attack is. The only retreat of US forces during OIF was an Apache brigade when it ignored offers of supporting arms from artillery and AF assets and got shellacked by small arms and RPGs. Deep attack has been the holy grail of the Army Aviation community since the mid-80s, and frankly, it was a pipe dream from the start. Though extremely powerful weapons wise, these birds are very fragile. In a rare instance of the Army turning on a dime, days after the debacle in OIF, the vice chief of staff of the Army, an aviator himself, came out publicly and described a complete revamping of attack aviation doctrine and training and integration with ground forces. This was already being done in some units but wasn't emphasized enough.
Nothing is invincible. How an army uses available combat systems determines success or failure.
Nothing is invincible. How an army uses available combat systems determines success or failure.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
They are referring to the KA-52 specifically. Its suffering some really bad losses in Ukraine
Cedric
Custom
Key thought: How an army uses available combat systems determines success or failure.
Whether it's Apache, KA-52, Abrams, T-72, or whatever. We tend to focus too much on the technical rather than the tactical employment and the training to support it. Having Leo IIs and Bradleys haven't helped the UAF coordinate and execute combined arms breaching operations and assaults to even affect penetration of the Russian security belt much less the main defensive belt.
SimonRL
Hellcat
Let’s see, they’re fairly slow, have the radar signature of a city bus towing another city bus and you can’t punch out of a wounded one. What could go wrong?
Bassbob
Emissary
Pfft. Kiljoy. You can use facts to prove anything.
Talyn
SAINT
All militaries that use attack helicopters are using ATGMs that have ranges ~9 miles so if not conducting deep attacks they stand-off (aka over-watch) as far as they can to acquire & launch. Western miliaries are developing ATGMs with even longer ranges.
Any force with a lack of SHORADs and/or M-SHORADs that are out-ranged by opposing forces sensors & weapons are vulnerable.
During the Cold WAR NATO/US had developed a variety of M-SHORADs, like the German Gepards, but let those systems lapse, and/or be decommissioned. The US always has assumed that air superiority would Suppress Enemy Air Defenses (aka SEAD) to allow maneuvering forces (mechanized & airborne) free movement.
But, the situation in Ukraine has evolved where neither side has free rein in the air so the KA-52s have moved into a over-watch role using stand-off ordnance. Ukraine lacks sufficient M-SHORADs to counter them at the front lines, although various countries have sent/dug up surplus Gepards that have been effective in shooting down cruise missiles & drones. AAA is back in vogue.
Any force with a lack of SHORADs and/or M-SHORADs that are out-ranged by opposing forces sensors & weapons are vulnerable.
During the Cold WAR NATO/US had developed a variety of M-SHORADs, like the German Gepards, but let those systems lapse, and/or be decommissioned. The US always has assumed that air superiority would Suppress Enemy Air Defenses (aka SEAD) to allow maneuvering forces (mechanized & airborne) free movement.
But, the situation in Ukraine has evolved where neither side has free rein in the air so the KA-52s have moved into a over-watch role using stand-off ordnance. Ukraine lacks sufficient M-SHORADs to counter them at the front lines, although various countries have sent/dug up surplus Gepards that have been effective in shooting down cruise missiles & drones. AAA is back in vogue.
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Cedric
Custom
Talyn said: But, the situation in Ukraine has evolved where neither side has free rein in the air so the KA-52s have moved into a over-watch role using stand-off ordnance. Ukraine lacks sufficient M-SHORADs to counter them at the front lines, although various countries have sent/dug up surplus Gepards that have been effective in shooting down cruise missiles & drones. AAA is back in vogue.
Yup. The forward edge of the battle area is where attack aviation with other combined arms assets can be decisive.
Yup. The forward edge of the battle area is where attack aviation with other combined arms assets can be decisive.
Talyn
SAINT
Back in the day the US should have adopted the German/Dutch Gepard turret that Raytheon proposed for the DIVAD requirement for installation on the excess M48A5 hulls vs. 40mm Sgt. York fiasco. It would have been plug-n-play and a lot cheaper.
Hard to beat the Oerlikon 35 mm gun especially with the new AHEAD shells.
But the M247 system had too many issues and the USAF guaranteed they would provide air cover so the US Army fell back on minimum SHORAD systems.
My .02
Hard to beat the Oerlikon 35 mm gun especially with the new AHEAD shells.
But the M247 system had too many issues and the USAF guaranteed they would provide air cover so the US Army fell back on minimum SHORAD systems.
My .02
Icepick Mike
Operator
Looks like some US tech in that cockpit instrument panel.