Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Do You Understand What Reasonable Force Really Is?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/do-you-understand-what-reasonable-force-really-is/.
Do You Understand What Reasonable Force Really Is?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Recusant
Hellcat
You got a second to make up your mind. What would be your reasonable response to this incident?
The lady used her cell phone to make a video, and this incident ended without a shot being fired. Could have turned out totally different. A cell phone would not have been my first choice.
www.wric.com
The lady used her cell phone to make a video, and this incident ended without a shot being fired. Could have turned out totally different. A cell phone would not have been my first choice.
Virginia State Police: Man arrested for pointing gun at driver on I-64
Virginia State Police arrested a man after he was caught on camera allegedly pointing a gun at another driver on Interstate 64.
www.wric.com
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Slam on my brakes, pit maneuver his butt into the ditch. Hopefully drive away without a gun fightYou got a second to make up your mind. What would be your reasonable response to this incident?
View attachment 43628
The lady used her cell phone to make a video, and this incident ended without a shot being fired. Could have turned out totally different. A cell phone would not have been my first choice.
Virginia State Police: Man arrested for pointing gun at driver on I-64
Virginia State Police arrested a man after he was caught on camera allegedly pointing a gun at another driver on Interstate 64.
Pit manuevers are fun. Got a chance to practice with some demo derby cars in my youth
TidalWave
Professional
“Duck and cover”You got a second to make up your mind. What would be your reasonable response to this incident?
View attachment 43628
The lady used her cell phone to make a video, and this incident ended without a shot being fired. Could have turned out totally different. A cell phone would not have been my first choice.
Virginia State Police: Man arrested for pointing gun at driver on I-64
Virginia State Police arrested a man after he was caught on camera allegedly pointing a gun at another driver on Interstate 64.
Blackmesa96
Master Class
We live in a world where "replay officials" have unlimited hours and reviews to critique a decision made in a second. They don't have a point of reference (i.e. having been in that situation before themselves) but after days and weeks of deliberation are able to conclude that the reaction of the person in question acted unreasonably.
If you can't easily disarm the populace, scare them into behaving as you have ordained. Our justice system has become a caricature of what it was designed to be. Government sees it as a weapon to use against the people rather than protect them.
If you can't easily disarm the populace, scare them into behaving as you have ordained. Our justice system has become a caricature of what it was designed to be. Government sees it as a weapon to use against the people rather than protect them.
TidalWave
Professional
BM96:
Good points. Although I’ll say, in many - perhaps most - areas of the country, local ‘officials’ do make perfectly reasonable judgments after the fact.
I’m reading a book that I think you’d appreciate. It’s called “The Law” by a frenchman named Frederic Bastiat.
Currently $3.50 on Amazon.
75 pages with very wide margins, it’s really about a 50 page book. Some archaic/obsolete phrasing but VERY readable. Written in a direct, to the point style we just don’t see much anymore…
Invisibleflash
Elite
Is life threatened? Can you get away? I'm old, not much of a fighter, got a bad neck and back. So, lots of things to consider in a few seconds.
I also carry pepper, a tactical light and a knife.
If you are in NYC or similar with knife laws, better be careful. They had a law in NYC that made it illegal to have a folding knife that could be opened with one hand or to have a fixed blade knife in view. Don't know if that has changed. I left NYC back in '19 just before covid broke out. No desire to ever go back.
I also carry pepper, a tactical light and a knife.
If you are in NYC or similar with knife laws, better be careful. They had a law in NYC that made it illegal to have a folding knife that could be opened with one hand or to have a fixed blade knife in view. Don't know if that has changed. I left NYC back in '19 just before covid broke out. No desire to ever go back.
Area52
Professional
Define reasonable.
Court justice(s) cannot define the word ‘woman’.
We have a serious problem with the legal system today.
Reasonable force used to mean enough force necessary to….(fill in the blank). Same with reasonable fear and reasonable expectation. There’s so set measure of what’s reasonable except when it come to one‘s fate before the deciding judge or jury.
Big pickle jars need more force to open than little ones? Using a monkey wrench to open the lid and breaking the jar would be excessive force but so would just denting the lid with the teeth on the wrenches jaws. Based on the method you choose to open that pickle jar, it is often acceptable to use the lesser aggressive approaches first. There’s no guarantee hand loosening wont cause damage and therefore by some viewpoints, the simple hand twist becomes unreasonable.
It’s not so simple to justify reasonable force, even in situations where one has reasonable expectations of safety or afforded reasonable opportunity to avoid confronting unpleasant obstacles.
Stuff (*#ht) happens and they vilified the firearm - that’s the pickle.
Court justice(s) cannot define the word ‘woman’.
We have a serious problem with the legal system today.
Reasonable force used to mean enough force necessary to….(fill in the blank). Same with reasonable fear and reasonable expectation. There’s so set measure of what’s reasonable except when it come to one‘s fate before the deciding judge or jury.
Big pickle jars need more force to open than little ones? Using a monkey wrench to open the lid and breaking the jar would be excessive force but so would just denting the lid with the teeth on the wrenches jaws. Based on the method you choose to open that pickle jar, it is often acceptable to use the lesser aggressive approaches first. There’s no guarantee hand loosening wont cause damage and therefore by some viewpoints, the simple hand twist becomes unreasonable.
It’s not so simple to justify reasonable force, even in situations where one has reasonable expectations of safety or afforded reasonable opportunity to avoid confronting unpleasant obstacles.
Stuff (*#ht) happens and they vilified the firearm - that’s the pickle.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Well, lets arm chair dissect:You got a second to make up your mind. What would be your reasonable response to this incident?
View attachment 43628
The lady used her cell phone to make a video, and this incident ended without a shot being fired. Could have turned out totally different. A cell phone would not have been my first choice.
Virginia State Police: Man arrested for pointing gun at driver on I-64
Virginia State Police arrested a man after he was caught on camera allegedly pointing a gun at another driver on Interstate 64.
- finger off trigger: thats good
- he’s driving a 2011 Camaro .. kinda says it all about cognitive skills
-staring at other driver.. not at road
This would be fitting for him:
Mr. Untactical
Master Class
It's an important subject and, while the article asks a couple of thought-provoking questions, it seems more like a soft add for CCW insurance. One thing (I think) I've learned is that when when the police arrive, don't be holding a firearm. Also, if I'm involved in a self-defense shooting, it's better for me to be the one to call the police.Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Do You Understand What Reasonable Force Really Is?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/do-you-understand-what-reasonable-force-really-is/.
"A man attacked me and shots were fired. Please send an ambulance and police to [location].
I've read that it's also not a terrible idea to give the dispatcher a description of yourself so the police will (hopefully) believe to some degree that you are not the criminal when they pull up.
The aspect that seems most contentious is how much one should tell the responding officers. The CCW insurance companies advise a single statement like, "I am happy to answer all your questions once I've contacted legal counsel."
That's great... if you have legal counsel. If you don't have an attorney on retainer (and let's be honest, how many of us do?) and you're not a card carrying member of USCCA, Law Shield, etc., you'll need to at least have a phone number for an attorney you researched ahead of time - someone local that supports 2A cases and will respond if called.
Ultimately, I think the article's best point is that we need to prepare mentally for all aspects of a potential self-defense shooting. Personally, I want to avoid that at ALL costs. However, if the situation ever occurs and I feel compelled to employ my EDC (or bedside gun or whatever), I plan on doing my best to terminate the threat. I'm not going to shoot for a knee or shoot to disable, I'm going 2-3 rounds center mass, as close to the heart as I can get and will reassess the situation afterward (for continued or additional threats).
I may be wrong, but when it's time to go to guns, my mind must already be squared with the idea of taking a human life. Firearms are deadly weapons. If I have to use one, my expectation is the person or persons I'm using it on will die. Therefor, I better be darn sure I have reasonable cause.
HayesGreener
Ronin
1. Exit the kill zone (hard braking and lane change)
2. Us the phone to report to LE
3. Be prepared to engage if he presses the attack. Justification for deadly force is established
2. Us the phone to report to LE
3. Be prepared to engage if he presses the attack. Justification for deadly force is established