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1911 SA government will not fire if riding the thumb safety after disengagement

A

az4783054

Master Class
I have had and still have a number of 1911 pistols since 1970. I've had Colts, Springfields and Kimbers, in Commander, Government and Ultra versions. None of my Colts or Kimbers have ever presented this issue. It does not occur with my .45 Springfield Ronin Commander.

I have relatively new 9mm and .45 SA Garrison pistols, both with about 600rds through them. Specifically with my Garrison 9mm pistol if I ride the safety after the draw and press the trigger, it will not reliably fire. It occurs occasionally with the .45, but they fire reliably if I move my thumb off the disengaged safety. I realize I could just retrain myself to move my thumb on all my 1911 pistols, but it feels unnatural after all these years.

What mechanically causes this? Thanks.
 
Sounds to me there is some kind of pressure on the safety/sear engagement from the thumb safety, when you take the safety off, is it coming off all together or can you feel it’s hanging up somewhere, do you notice any click when you take safety off….might have to give Springfield a call on this.
 
Snake45 said:
This was my first thought, too. Very possibly a grip safety issue.
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There is no play in the thumb safety, it's a defined click when engaged or disengaged. It's a smooth transition up or down between engaged and disengaged. I sense no indication of any interference.

I thought about the grip safety initially. It is oem, I don't have to reposition my grip when the safety is disengaged. The oem grip safety on the 9mm and .45 have a memory bump. I have replaced the oem thin wood grips with G10 grips on both guns.
 
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az4783054 said:
There is no play in the thumb safety, it's a defined click when engaged or disengaged. It's a smooth transition up or down between engaged and disengaged. I sense no indication of any interference.

I thought about the grip safety initially. It is oem, I don't have to reposition my grip when the safety is disengaged. The oem grip safety on the 9mm and .45 have a memory bump. I have replaced the oem thin wood grips with G10 grips on both guns.
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Does it happen if someone else fires it? If so, i’d tend to believe it is the gun. If not, then i suspect it is something with the way the garrison fits in your hand.
Very strange.
 
I have not yet asked anyone else to shoot the pistols.

It had been awhile since I shot my SA .45 Ronin Commander, so I wanted to double check my prior statement. It happens with the Ronin as well. All three of my SA 1911 pistols exhibit this trait. They fire only when my thumb is not resting on the thumb safety. So now I'm thinking it might be normal with SA pistols. I guess I need to retrain my thumb placement.

Maybe someone could check their SA 1911 pistol(s) and advise?

Not sure what could be different in Kimbers, but I verified riding the safety down and resting thumb on safety does not prevent a Kimber from firing. Externally the Kimber does not have a memory bump on the grip safety, but doubtful that could be the cause. A memory bump should help insure positive grip safety activation. All of my 1911 pistols are fitted with standard width VZ or Cool Hand G10 grips.
 
az4783054 said:
I have not yet asked anyone else to shoot the pistols.

It had been awhile since I shot my SA .45 Ronin Commander, so I wanted to double check my prior statement. It happens with the Ronin as well. All three of my SA 1911 pistols exhibit this trait. They fire only when my thumb is not resting on the thumb safety. So now I'm thinking it might be normal with SA pistols. I guess I need to retrain my thumb placement.

Maybe someone could check their SA 1911 pistol(s) and advise?

Not sure what could be different in Kimbers, but I verified riding the safety down and resting thumb on safety does not prevent a Kimber from firing. Externally the Kimber does not have a memory bump on the grip safety, but doubtful that could be the cause. A memory bump should help insure positive grip safety activation. All of my 1911 pistols are fitted with standard width VZ or Cool Hand G10 grips.
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Hmm. I have rested my thumb on the safety if my SA mil-spec 1911 without issue. I May hit the range tomorrow. If i do i’ll bring it and try it.
 
Thank you. I just sent a message to SA Customer Service and will update their response. It may be normal in SA 1911 pistols. If it were just one pistol I would think it's a mechanical malfunction, but it's all three. I've carried various 1911 pistols for work assignments since 1970 so I'd like to think I'm more conscious about a quirk. Maybe subconsciously I have always moved my thumb off the disengaged safety and didn't even think about it.

I can retrain my thumb to eliminate it...
 
az4783054 said:
Thank you. I just sent a message to SA Customer Service and will update their response. It may be normal in SA 1911 pistols. If it were just one pistol I would think it's a mechanical malfunction, but it's all three. I've carried various 1911 pistols for work assignments since 1970 so I'd like to think I'm more conscious about a quirk. Maybe subconsciously I have always moved my thumb off the disengaged safety and didn't even think about it.

I can retrain my thumb to eliminate it...
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I’ll let you what happens tomorrow.
 
az4783054 said:
Thank you. I just sent a message to SA Customer Service and will update their response. It may be normal in SA 1911 pistols. If it were just one pistol I would think it's a mechanical malfunction, but it's all three. I've carried various 1911 pistols for work assignments since 1970 so I'd like to think I'm more conscious about a quirk. Maybe subconsciously I have always moved my thumb off the disengaged safety and didn't even think about it.

I can retrain my thumb to eliminate it...
Click to expand...
I dry fired my mil-spec with a laser trainer. I definitely lay my thumb on the thumb safety. I take a really high grip on all my handguns. I guess i had to think of it since that’s just the natural grip for me.
At any rate, it went click every time. Tried it with my thumb under the safety and it also went click. I’ll let you know what happens tomorrow with live fire.
 
SA Customer Service just replied, said it's not normal and to send it to them for evaluation. I didn't mention that all three SA pistols exhibited the issue. While I appreciate their prompt response and know they would address the issue, they are very busy and the last time they had the 9mm Garrison for weeks.

I am fortunate enough to have some of the best 1911 smiths in the country within minutes from me (LRK Mechanical, Chuck Rogers of Rogers Precision, Dave Lauck of D&L, Don Williams of The Action Works and Gunsight).

I'll make some calls on Monday.
 
az4783054 said:
SA Customer Service just replied, said it's not normal and to send it to them for evaluation. I didn't mention that all three SA pistols exhibited the issue. While I appreciate their prompt response and know they would address the issue, they are very busy and the last time they had the 9mm Garrison for weeks.

I am fortunate enough to have some of the best 1911 smiths in the country within minutes from me (LRK Mechanical, Chuck Rogers of Rogers Precision, Dave Lauck of D&L, Don Williams of The Action Works and Gunsight).

I'll make some calls on Monday.
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S/A would be free...minus shipping

best of luck.
 
I think I discovered the problem is all mine. With a full size Commander or Government SA 1911 grip I find myself shifting my grip very slightly when riding the thumb safety which allows the grip safety to inadvertently disengage. I could detect this observing the grip safety below the hammer depression. It was more difficult to observe with my normal grip. If my hands were larger it probably would never have been an issue.

But most of my Kimbers have been round heel Ultra or round heel Pro models. I realized I don't shift my grip with the round heel pistols.

I tested this theory and the issue seems to have resolved itself. I'll change my grip to insure the grip safety is fully pressed. Thanks for the replies and suggestions. Never to old to learn...
 
az4783054 said:
I think I discovered the problem is all mine. With a full size Commander or Government SA 1911 grip I find myself shifting my grip very slightly when riding the thumb safety which allows the grip safety to inadvertently disengage. I could detect this observing the grip safety below the hammer depression. It was more difficult to observe with my normal grip. If my hands were larger it probably would never have been an issue.

But most of my Kimbers have been round heel Ultra or round heel Pro models. I realized I don't shift my grip with the round heel pistols.

I tested this theory and the issue seems to have resolved itself. I'll change my grip to insure the grip safety is fully pressed. Thanks for the replies and suggestions. Never to old to learn...
Click to expand...
Just got back from the range with my mi-spec 1911 and rode the thumb safety as i normally do and all squeezes ended with a bang. And some of the time the bullet actually went where inwanted it to go! 😄
Glad you figured out the problem.
 
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