Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “The Wonderfully Horrible Lockheed F-104 Starfighter” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/lockheed-f-104-starfighter/.
The Wonderfully Horrible Lockheed F-104 Starfighter
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
belladonna
Professional
Awesome article Mike! We had a squadron of 101s at CFB Cold Lake while I was stationed there in the early 80s. You knew they were on approach because you could hear that telltale wail coming for miles...and then the black exhaust when they were visible. I turned many of them around on my tour there. LOX top ups and drag chute changes, and cockpit safety checks was my job. Loved those days!
Talyn
SAINT
Did Germany's Lockheed F-104 deserve its bad name?
Fatal crashes and a bribery affair — the reputation of the Lockheed F-104 in Germany could hardly have been worse. But the Starfighter barely deserved its bad name
“Sale of the Century”A reappraisal of the procurement of the F-104 Starfighter
Talyn
SAINT
The Grumman F-11F-1F (also known as the F11F-2 Super Tiger) Tiger (an enhanced version of the F11-1 Tiger) was in competition with the F-104 for a standard fighter for NATO and Japan but wasn't selected due to a multi-nation bribery scandal.
In many ways the Super Tiger was a more versatile and safer aircraft, than the F-104.
militarymatters.online
en.wikipedia.org
The Ginter/Meyer book on the Super Tiger is excellent, and tells the whole story.
squadron.com
In many ways the Super Tiger was a more versatile and safer aircraft, than the F-104.
Best Fighter Never Built? The Grumman F11F-1F Super Tiger - Forgotten Aircraft - Military Matters
The discussion over the best military aircraft has to never get into service has to include the Grumman F11F-1F Super Tiger.
militarymatters.online
Grumman F11F-1F Super Tiger - Wikipedia
The Ginter/Meyer book on the Super Tiger is excellent, and tells the whole story.
Ginter Books - Grumman F11F-1F Supertiger
Squadron offers scale model kits made of plastic, resin and more. Categories include aircraft, armor, ships, sci-fi, cars, tools, paint, books and more! Everything needed for your hobby modeling room!
squadron.com
Last edited:
USMC6094
Custom
Don't forget that the 104s bad reputation came from NATO allies repurposing the Interceptor to a ground attack platform, a job it was never designed to do. Our Italian and German brethren learned the hard way, well maybe.
Also remember the 104 was only a second or third generation jet aircraft at a time when a new type-model-series aircraft only got five or ten years use before obsolescence and replacement.
But, it is, what it is......
Also remember the 104 was only a second or third generation jet aircraft at a time when a new type-model-series aircraft only got five or ten years use before obsolescence and replacement.
But, it is, what it is......
USMC6094
Custom
The Grumman F-11F-1F (also known as the F11F-2 Super Tiger) Tiger (an enhanced version of the F11-1 Tiger) was in competition with the F-104 for a standard fighter for NATO and Japan but wasn't selected due to a multi-nation bribery scandal.
In many ways the Super Tiger was a more versatile and safer aircraft, than the F-104.
View attachment 59292
Best Fighter Never Built? The Grumman F11F-1F Super Tiger - Forgotten Aircraft - Military Matters
The discussion over the best military aircraft has to never get into service has to include the Grumman F11F-1F Super Tiger.
View attachment 59298
Grumman F11F-1F Super Tiger - Wikipedia
View attachment 59297
The Ginter/Meyer book on the Super Tiger is excellent, and tells the whole story.
View attachment 59293
Ginter Books - Grumman F11F-1F Supertiger
Squadron offers scale model kits made of plastic, resin and more. Categories include aircraft, armor, ships, sci-fi, cars, tools, paint, books and more! Everything needed for your hobby modeling room!
It and the F8U-3 Super Crusader
USMC6094
Custom
They both started out, well the F8U-3 was a straight up point or area defense interceptor, McDonnell had a head start on the Phantom and the ability to carry air to ground ordnance was designed into it before it became the Phantom.
And a canceled aircraft can't be offered to other countries because it never went into production........
The SC beat the Phantom in every category, weight, range, and speed. Even the Navy admitted it was the best aircraft they ever canceled.
And the ol' Spook (F-4 variants) was a mediocre fighter bomber at best, just like it's ultimate replacement was (the Hornet on the Marine side of the house), unlike the Tomcat on the Navy side. It was an air to air bird exclusively until the early 90s, and then it excelled as a multi-role aircraft
Talyn
SAINT
The F-4 was doing A2G work in VN, as well with another notable operator before the 90's.
Last edited:
Talyn
SAINT
The moral of this story is the F-104 really wasn't wonderful due to it's performance issues, and it was horrible due to it's safety record.
Unfortunately, allied nations took the burnt of F-104s problems because of Lockheed's shady business practices, while there were better options.
It looked cool but the USAF really didn't use it much because there were far superior other aircraft in the inventory.
Unfortunately, allied nations took the burnt of F-104s problems because of Lockheed's shady business practices, while there were better options.
It looked cool but the USAF really didn't use it much because there were far superior other aircraft in the inventory.
Back in the mid-50s, College friends and I were heading to Rocky Point, Mexico (when it was not much more than a rocky point). Between Gila Bend and the border was an USAF bombing range. As we passed, 104s were making bombing runs. We stopped and watched with binos. Accuracy was not impressive, they seemed hard to control at the slow speeds needed, based on plane movement. Couple of years later I was in the Nam watching A-4s and F-4s dish it out. Liked them better.