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A $500 Semi-Auto Tactical Shotgun Build

IMO, after doing alot of research on the net I've concluded that the shotgun is a "niche" firearm, compared to a handgun and AR-type rifle. In the former, the shotgun best used to dominate the typical "pistol" arena in a short-range (0 to 30 yards), and the more CQB home defense environment with it's well-known fire power, albeit with some negatives.

Some thoughts gathered in my research.

1) Treating a shotgun like a big rifle with a limited range (100-yards +/- 15 yards) is a good way to use a shotgun loaded with slugs. But in order to be efective a user must have a sight tuned for slug use.

2) Treating a shotgun like a big pistol with a limited range (25-yards +/- 5-yards) is a good way to use a properly choked shotgun loaded with buckshot.

3) Treating a shotgun like a game getting weapon with a limited range (30-yards +/- 5 yards) is a good way to use a properly choked shotgun loaded with shot sized to your target.

4) Training people to safely use a shotgun to effectively kill game or dangerous threats (bears and/or people) takes less time than training people to use a handgun or a rifle which can take more time.

5) Shotguns are 50-state and virtually all jurisdiction legal for hunting, sport-shooting, and personal defense.

BUT there are noticable limitations of the shotgun:

1) Shotguns have limited capacity and therefore require more practice and more awareness for loading/reloading.
2) Shotguns have higher recoil than rifles and may make shooters with little experience less effective in shooting them.
3) Because of legal limitations, most shotguns are generally quite bulky, with some ezxceptions, and virtually impossible to conceal on one's person in an easy fashion, and are not legal to carry loaded in many places where a handgun might be.
4) Ammunition is bulky and reloading typically takes a longer time than an AR-type rifle and/or handgun. In this case, a user must have some back-up to provide cover in order to reload, or have sufficnet hard-cover in order to reload. Also, a shotgun user may have to disengage sooner when on-person ammo runs low.

Therefore, the shotgun can serve as an overmatch at pistol distances via improved hit potential and significantly greater terminal effects. The shotgun fills the same niche as a PCC, not the same niche as a rifle with greater range capability. With proper ammo it can be a superior to a handgun for shooting into vehicles at short range.

In comparing a rifle to a shotgun. If you aren't engaging a high number of threats, potentially wearing body armor, or in heavily fortified structures, a shotgun is probably the right choice (unless targets are at distances longer than 100 yards). That's a lot of qualifications for a police officer who may encounter that. By contrast for the average home owner sleeping in their bed at night? It's far fewer qualifications.

Shotguns are 50-state and virtually all jurisdiction legal for hunting, sport-shooting, and personal defense.

IMO, a proper self-defense shotgun is a tool to complement, and dominate the pistol distance envelope, but a user must understand it's limitations.

My .02
 
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Talyn said:
IMO, after doing alot of research on the net I've concluded that the shotgun is a "niche" firearm, compared to a handgun and AR-type rifle. In the former, the shotgun best used to dominate the typical "pistol" arena in a short-range (0 to 30 yards), and the more CQB home defense environment with it's well-known fire power, albeit with some negatives.

Some thoughts gathered in my research.

1) Treating a shotgun like a big rifle with a limited range (100-yards +/- 15 yards) is a good way to use a shotgun loaded with slugs. But in order to be efective a user must have a sight tuned for slug use.

2) Treating a shotgun like a big pistol with a limited range (25-yards +/- 5-yards) is a good way to use a properly choked shotgun loaded with buckshot.

3) Treating a shotgun like a game getting weapon with a limited range (30-yards +/- 5 yards) is a good way to use a properly choked shotgun loaded with shot sized to your target.

4) Training people to safely use a shotgun to effectively kill game or dangerous threats (bears and/or people) takes less time than training people to use a handgun or a rifle which can take more time.

5) Shotguns are 50-state and virtually all jurisdiction legal for hunting, sport-shooting, and personal defense.

BUT there are noticable limitations of the shotgun:

1) Shotguns have limited capacity and therefore require more practice and more awareness for loading/reloading.
2) Shotguns have higher recoil than rifles and may make shooters with little experience less effective in shooting them.
3) Because of legal limitations, most shotguns are generally quite bulky, with some ezxceptions, and virtually impossible to conceal on one's person in an easy fashion, and are not legal to carry loaded in many places where a handgun might be.
4) Ammunition is bulky and reloading typically takes a longer time than an AR-type rifle and/or handgun. In this case, a user must have some back-up to provide cover in order to reload, or have sufficnet hard-cover in order to reload. Also, a shotgun user may have to disengage sooner when on-person ammo runs low.

Therefore, the shotgun can serve as an overmatch at pistol distances via improved hit potential and significantly greater terminal effects. The shotgun fills the same niche as a PCC, not the same niche as a rifle with greater range capability. With proper ammo it can be a superior to a handgun for shooting into vehicles at short range.

In comparing a rifle to a shotgun. If you aren't engaging a high number of threats, potentially wearing body armor, or in heavily fortified structures, a shotgun is probably the right choice (unless targets are at distances longer than 100 yards). That's a lot of qualifications for a police officer who may encounter that. By contrast for the average home owner sleeping in their bed at night? It's far fewer qualifications.

Shotguns are 50-state and virtually all jurisdiction legal for hunting, sport-shooting, and personal defense.

IMO, a proper self-defense shotgun is a tool to complement, and dominate the pistol distance envelope,but a user must understand it's limitations.

My .02
Click to expand...
Well said. A couple of places my perspective may differ.

RE: Training. As a guy who has trained more on a shotgun for many, many years I have to disagree that training to use it to properly dispatch dangerous threats is easier than anything else. For many of the reasons you already stated. Weight, bulk and recoil. You may not have to be quite as precise as you do with a 9mm handgun, but that's only because it creates bigger or multiple wound channels. It still needs to be put on target with accuracy. Also with a handgun the ammo is easy. Hollow points of some sort, done. With a shotgun you have to more carefully consider the intended target and the distance. Not that you don't have some of those considerations with a handgun, but you get my point. From a purely range time target shooting perspective it's easier fundamentally, but learning to use it as a HD/SD tool I think may be a little more difficult. An improperly trained or undertrained individual is less likely to get a shot off and more likely to have their gun taken from them than a handgun in a SD situation.

RE: Reloading. To start, with any weapon you should try to reload from cover or at least moving towards cover, but just because it's a shotgun that doesn't mean you HAVE to reload from cover. Just like with any weapon, you can train for quick, on the fly reloads. I do it all the time. Also I own at least 3 shotguns that equal or exceed the capacity of most handguns, though the trade off is they are heavy and hard to conceal. Concealable shotguns usually means pistol grip which is a massive trade off. Pistol grips are only useful for extremely close distances or breaching. I trained with one for a long time and I can be effective, but the difference in my times and accuracy with a stock are significantly better.


Only small disagreements, the rest is very much spot on.

If one intends to use a shotgun as a SD weapon outdoors or someplace with open space, you better train hard for it. Frankly, even though I am a huge shotgun advocate I think an AR, an AR pistol or a PCC is a better tool for that. Shotguns are best utilized, by well practiced persons, indoors or as part of a team effort. For most people I think a handgun is a better HD weapon primarily because most people won't put in the work to train properly with a shotgun. I think those people's odds are far better with a 17 rd. 9mm handgun.
 
Bassbob said:
Well said. A couple of places my perspective may differ.

RE: Training. As a guy who has trained more on a shotgun for many, many years I have to disagree that training to use it to properly dispatch dangerous threats is easier than anything else. For many of the reasons you already stated. Weight, bulk and recoil. You may not have to be quite as precise as you do with a 9mm handgun, but that's only because it creates bigger or multiple wound channels. It still needs to be put on target with accuracy. Also with a handgun the ammo is easy. Hollow points of some sort, done. With a shotgun you have to more carefully consider the intended target and the distance. Not that you don't have some of those considerations with a handgun, but you get my point. From a purely range time target shooting perspective it's easier fundamentally, but learning to use it as a HD/SD tool I think may be a little more difficult. An improperly trained or undertrained individual is less likely to get a shot off and more likely to have their gun taken from them than a handgun in a SD situation.

RE: Reloading. To start, with any weapon you should try to reload from cover or at least moving towards cover, but just because it's a shotgun that doesn't mean you HAVE to reload from cover. Just like with any weapon, you can train for quick, on the fly reloads. I do it all the time. Also I own at least 3 shotguns that equal or exceed the capacity of most handguns, though the trade off is they are heavy and hard to conceal. Concealable shotguns usually means pistol grip which is a massive trade off. Pistol grips are only useful for extremely close distances or breaching. I trained with one for a long time and I can be effective, but the difference in my times and accuracy with a stock are significantly better.


Only small disagreements, the rest is very much spot on.

If one intends to use a shotgun as a SD weapon outdoors or someplace with open space, you better train hard for it. Frankly, even though I am a huge shotgun advocate I think an AR, an AR pistol or a PCC is a better tool for that. Shotguns are best utilized, by well practiced persons, indoors or as part of a team effort. For most people I think a handgun is a better HD weapon primarily because most people won't put in the work to train properly with a shotgun. I think those people's odds are far better with a 17 rd. 9mm handgun.
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All good points.

I guess from my perspective, it's faster to reload a handgun with magazines with semi-autos, and speedloaders with DA revolvers. If you're using a SA revolver I'd agree.

And that reloading a shotgun doesn't involve 3-gun stickloaders but conventional reloading by hand, although one can train to twins loading. Her's a guy doing his version.

h**ps://youtu.be/_YvUlfIOPrM

BTW - the ALF doesn't sem to be accepting You Tube vids since I've had several that won't work when using the Media function.
 
I've always been a proponent (as was Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch) that a single or double-barrel shotgun is one of the best options for someone who is not practiced--and isn't going to be practiced beyond the basics--in self-defense firearms use, let alone the high-speed/low drag way of the operator.

First off, odds are one shot out of a 20 or 12ga is gonna end the fight, particularly if placed on target. No one wants to stick around when the gauge comes into play.

Second, reloads are pretty dang easy. Open the action, drop the big fat shell into the big fat hole. Repeat if necessary.
 
Talyn said:
All good points.

I guess from my perspective, it's faster to reload a handgun with magazines with semi-autos, and speedloaders with DA revolvers. If you're using a SA revolver I'd agree.

And that reloading a shotgun doesn't involve 3-gun stickloaders but conventional reloading by hand, although one can train to twins loading. Her's a guy doing his version.

h**ps://youtu.be/_YvUlfIOPrM

BTW - the ALF doesn't sem to be accepting You Tube vids since I've had several that won't work when using the Media function.
Click to expand...
I’m well practiced on combat reloading the 500 and reloading with doubles on the TS12.
 
Talyn said:
All good points.

I guess from my perspective, it's faster to reload a handgun with magazines with semi-autos, and speedloaders with DA revolvers. If you're using a SA revolver I'd agree.

And that reloading a shotgun doesn't involve 3-gun stickloaders but conventional reloading by hand, although one can train to twins loading. Her's a guy doing his version.

h**ps://youtu.be/_YvUlfIOPrM

BTW - the ALF doesn't sem to be accepting You Tube vids since I've had several that won't work when using the Media function.
Click to expand...
I do agree reloading a handgun is faster. It’s part of the reason why I said if you’re not willing to put in the work with your shotgun you should stick to a handgun. For the record I don’t foresee a situation in reality where I would need to reload my shotguns. 25, 16 and 9 respectively. Any of which is most likely enough.
 
I watched the video, and am waiting to see the follow-up. I recently purchased one of the exact Black Aces Tactical shotgun James picked for the video. My local range doesn't allow shotguns, so I will have to wait until I can take it out to the family land to test it. I trust TFB's reviews more than many other channels, and am anxious to see how the BAT performs in their tests.
 
wmg1299 said:
I watched the video, and am waiting to see the follow-up. I recently purchased one of the exact Black Aces Tactical shotgun James picked for the video. My local range doesn't allow shotguns, so I will have to wait until I can take it out to the family land to test it. I trust TFB's reviews more than many other channels, and am anxious to see how the BAT performs in their tests.
Click to expand...

Glad my posting of James' TFB article & vid will be of beneficial use for you.
 
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Talyn said:
All good points.

I guess from my perspective, it's faster to reload a handgun with magazines with semi-autos, and speedloaders with DA revolvers. If you're using a SA revolver I'd agree.

And that reloading a shotgun doesn't involve 3-gun stickloaders but conventional reloading by hand, although one can train to twins loading. Her's a guy doing his version.

h**ps://youtu.be/_YvUlfIOPrM

BTW - the ALF doesn't sem to be accepting You Tube vids since I've had several that won't work when using the Media function.
Click to expand...
Thanks Talyn, hadn't seen either video or quite that method of reloading before before in 2nd one.
Like the shoulder loading idea shown in 2nd video. Depending on scenario, makes a lot of sense keeping as much eye contact as possible with target.
 
wmg1299 said:
I watched the video, and am waiting to see the follow-up. I recently purchased one of the exact Black Aces Tactical shotgun James picked for the video. My local range doesn't allow shotguns, so I will have to wait until I can take it out to the family land to test it. I trust TFB's reviews more than many other channels, and am anxious to see how the BAT performs in their tests.
Click to expand...


I almost purchased one last year. I don't know why. I have too many shotguns now. For $400 I figured I couldn't lose. Which is probably true. Although Black Aces does get mixed reviews. I've heard their ammo is good, but I haven't tried any.

I'm holding out for an M4 though. This will happen soon.
 
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