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Airshow Saturday

Talyn

Talyn

SAINT
Founding Member
Got back from the 2024 Fairchild AFB airshow yesterday with a Bud. The last one was in 2022.

Fairchild is a KC-135R Super Base.

The air demos were the usual small aerobatic planes, but they had air demos from a T-33, C-130 parachute jump, a simulated KC-145/C-17 aerial refueling flyby, F-35s, and from the the A-10 demo team on their fair-well tour. The A-10 had the best aerial demo.

There was a B-52H there on static display, as well as a rare WW2 PBY-5A Catalina.

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belladonna said:
I have seen many, many air shows, but I haven’t seen A-10s in an air show before. That airplane fascinates me.
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From what I saw its very quiet and maneuverable, being able to turn loop and twist around on a dime.

It was definitely the whole crowds favorite.

I talked with several ground-pounder vets & they all said the A-10 saved their butts in the various combat excursions that they were in over the last 30 yrs.

I think if the regular USAF doesn't want to operate A-10s anymore then they should just send them all to the ANG, and eventually some incident will come up then they'll ask the ANG to come & help them.
 
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The United States Air Force’s decision to divest the A-10C “Warthog” has larger ramifications for future wars than just an airframe. The service plans to drastically reduce its capability and capacity to provide Close Air Support (CAS) to ground forces, leaving the sons and daughters of America and her allies to fight without a dedicated CAS aircraft for the first time since Vietnam.

havokjournal.com

The Case for the A-10C • The Havok Journal

by Ivan F. Ingraham The United States Air Force’s decision to divest the A-10C “Warthog” has larger ramifications for future wars than just an airframe. One of the SOF truths is “competent [forces] cannot be created after the emergency occurs.” Getting rid of the A-10C; its qualified CAS-trained...
havokjournal.com havokjournal.com

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The A10 fills a gap between attack helicopters and fast movers. It is great at CAS in a permissive air defense environment, but it is not stealthy, is relatively slow, and not a suitable dog fighter. The F35 can do CAS well as well as dog fight, is fast and stealthy, but does not carry as large a bomb load as the A10. If a ground unit in trouble calls for help, the F35 can get there quicker. The advanced targeting suite on the F35 is more capable of putting precision munitions on a dime and may be more lethal with a smaller bomb load. The A10 still has a role to play and due to refurbishment underway will be around in its niche for a good long while.
 
HayesGreener said:
The A10 fills a gap between attack helicopters and fast movers. It is great at CAS in a permissive air defense environment, but it is not stealthy, is relatively slow, and not a suitable dog fighter. The F35 can do CAS well as well as dog fight, is fast and stealthy, but does not carry as large a bomb load as the A10. If a ground unit in trouble calls for help, the F35 can get there quicker. The advanced targeting suite on the F35 is more capable of putting precision munitions on a dime and may be more lethal with a smaller bomb load. The A10 still has a role to play and due to refurbishment underway will be around in its niche for a good long while.
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In my experience the AF has wanted to divest itself from the A-10 way before the F-35 came along or any other suitable substitute. In the late 80s the Army had a requirement to replace its Mohawk recon aircraft and IIRC the AF wanted give A-10s to the Army. The kicker was the Army didn't want the big attack aircraft, but a lighter recon aircraft. On the Army pilot POV, they were chomping at the bit to get the aircraft as it meant more pilot billets and a strengthening of the recently established separate aviation branch (which I think was a bad idea). As Talyn said, putting them in the ANG to hedge our bets is a good idea.
 
Having go
Talyn said:
Got back from the 2024 Fairchild AFB airshow yesterday with a Bud. The last one was in 2022.

Fairchild is a KC-135R Super Base.

The air demos were the usual small aerobatic planes, but they had air demos from a T-33, C-130 parachute jump, a simulated KC-145/C-17 aerial refueling flyby, F-35s, and from the the A-10 demo team on their fair-well tour. The A-10 had the best aerial demo.

There was a B-52H there on static display, as well as a rare WW2 PBY-5A Catalina.

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Thanks for the pix. Having grown up near FAFB the airshows were a big event and in the day were massive both in displays and size of the crowds. B-52s, tankers, Vulcan bombers, F-4s, F101 Voodoos, helos, jump demos from our local reserve SF Group et al. Would have liked to have been there for this one.
 
Cedric said:
In my experience the AF has wanted to divest itself from the A-10 way before the F-35 came along or any other suitable substitute. In the late 80s the Army had a requirement to replace its Mohawk recon aircraft and IIRC the AF wanted give A-10s to the Army. The kicker was the Army didn't want the big attack aircraft, but a lighter recon aircraft. On the Army pilot POV, they were chomping at the bit to get the aircraft as it meant more pilot billets and a strengthening of the recently established separate aviation branch (which I think was a bad idea). As Talyn said, putting them in the ANG to hedge our bets is a good idea.
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I think a key consideration often overlooked for getting out of A10's is the proliferation of MANPADS in asymetric warfare. But with high interest in CAS, there is even interest in resurrecting the OV-10. My JTAC friends love the A10, and 130 gunships, but when they need help in a hurry, they want a fast mover on the way. They all have a role. I predict the Warthog will still be operational 10 years from now with new engines and avionics
 
HayesGreener said:
The A10 fills a gap between attack helicopters and fast movers. It is great at CAS in a permissive air defense environment, but it is not stealthy, is relatively slow, and not a suitable dog fighter. The F35 can do CAS well as well as dog fight, is fast and stealthy, but does not carry as large a bomb load as the A10. If a ground unit in trouble calls for help, the F35 can get there quicker. The advanced targeting suite on the F35 is more capable of putting precision munitions on a dime and may be more lethal with a smaller bomb load. The A10 still has a role to play and due to refurbishment underway will be around in its niche for a good long while.
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The two F-35's also flew a demo. The F-35 is the loudest jet I've ever heard, and weren't near as maneuverable as the A-10 when turning & burning down low.

Plus, their massive engine is such a heat source that if they were down low like the A-10 they'd be very at risk of a heat-seeking MANPADs.

As the article above describes the F-35 has a role for SAM suppression/destruction to open up the airspace for other aircraft (as per USAF doctrine since VN) but going low & slow isn't its strong points.

The problem with the A-10 is it's not fancy enough, it's cheap to fly & upgrade, and it doesn't have all the "gold-plating" that the upper USAF management likes on its "sexy" aircraft.

My .02
 
where was this show? I used to work for Fairchild in NY where the A10 was made. Was great to walk into the flight line and see 10-15 A10s in various stages for assembly. Awesome planes.

Love watching them fly about. Saw alot down in souther VA beach area and around Burlington VT
 
Cedric said:
Having go

Thanks for the pix. Having grown up near FAFB the airshows were a big event and in the day were massive both in displays and size of the crowds. B-52s, tankers, Vulcan bombers, F-4s, F101 Voodoos, helos, jump demos from our local reserve SF Group et al. Would have liked to have been there for this one.
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They didn't have an airshow at Fairchild last year since the base was doing a lot of infrastructure work, and that sill not done since there was a lot of earth-moving equipment & associated supplies on down by the PBY.

In "22" they had a lot more stuff, including a B-29, with more aircraft on display on the tarmac & in the hangers. They had F-35s & F-22s there and folks could get pretty close to them but not under the wings to get out of the sun like this week end with the BIG stuff.

The problem in "22" was there was a low cloud deck so they had to cancel the T-Birds and other fast-mover demos.

I was in the area "back-in-the day" when Fairchild was a "52" base & saw the B-52 demo by the pilot that crashed one the next year while practicing for that year's show.

en.wikipedia.org

1994 Fairchild Air Force Base B-52 crash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

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Talyn said:
They didn't have an airshow at Fairchild last year since the base was doing a lot of infrastructure work, and that sill not done since there was a lot of earth-moving equipment & associated supplies on down by the PBY.

In "22" they had a lot more stuff, including a B-29, with more aircraft on display on the tarmac & in the hangers. They had F-35s & F-22s there and folks could get pretty close to them but not under the wings to get out of the sun like this week end with the BIG stuff.

The problem in "22" was there was a low cloud deck so they had to cancel the T-Birds and other fast-mover demos.

I was in the area "back-in-the day" when Fairchild was a "52" base & saw the B-52 demo by the pilot that crashed one the next year while practicing for that year's show.

en.wikipedia.org

1994 Fairchild Air Force Base B-52 crash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

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I knew about the accident of course, but it wasn't until around '08 that an AF officer I was working with put me on to all the back story of the incident. It seems the command climate sucked, and the pilot was a known hot dog. His XO insisted on being co-pilot in the hopes he could mitigate any of the guy's foolhardy maneuvers. My first non-pilot impression when I saw the videos many years ago, is that he was attempting to mimic the demonstration of the aforementioned Vulcans from years past at the airshow. I thought there is a big difference between the delta wing Vulcan and a B-52 so why did he expect the same performance out of the 52? But that's just my non-aerodynamic background opinion.
 
Rayg5102 said:
where was this show? I used to work for Fairchild in NY where the A10 was made. Was great to walk into the flight line and see 10-15 A10s in various stages for assembly. Awesome planes.

Love watching them fly about. Saw alot down in souther VA beach area and around Burlington VT
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Fairchild AFB on the west side of Spokane, WA.
 
Cedric said:
I knew about the accident of course, but it wasn't until around '08 that an AF officer I was working with put me on to all the back story of the incident. It seems the command climate sucked, and the pilot was a known hot dog. His XO insisted on being co-pilot in the hopes he could mitigate any of the guy's foolhardy maneuvers. My first non-pilot impression when I saw the videos many years ago, is that he was attempting to mimic the demonstration of the aforementioned Vulcans from years past at the airshow. I thought there is a big difference between the delta wing Vulcan and a B-52 so why did he expect the same performance out of the 52? But that's just my non-aerodynamic background opinion.
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I was at the previous years show and that hot-dog pilot did maneuvers with a "52" that were fighter-like, and had my jaw-dropping. Real omg sh:poop:t stuff.

But he was doing them much higher than the "last" one, which viewing the vid again reminded me on how low (too low) he was at the start, and the "52" just doesn't have the horse-power to pull off a radical low-level maneuver.

Has the attached article describe one guy tried to get out but the ejection seats in the 52 back then weren't zero-zero seats so there just wasn't enough time/altitude to get out.
 
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