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ATF Issues Conflicting Statements About Intimidating Warrantless Gun Owner Investigations, Calls Tactics ‘Entirely Appropriate’

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ATF Issues Conflicting Statements About Intimidating Warrantless Gun Owner Investigations, Calls Tactics 'Entirely Appropriate' - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post Coming Soon...▶ By Lee Williams ATF’s severely underworked public information officers are flustered. A story we first published Monday about a surprise firearm inspection at a Delaware man’s home has gone viral, exposing their agents’ misdeeds and questionable...
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So, ATF shows up and wants to see the handguns you bought last week. They are fishing to see if you've sold any of them. So, what if you have sold one of them already. There is no statutory time requirement or waiting period that an individual must hold on to purchases that I've been able to find. Like other things recently, the problem with this is that it is an agency decision, not something that is based on statutory law or case law. That means it could be whatever time that ATF deems; 30 days could become 45 days or 60 days. At a minimum, I would suggest that you not sell a firearm for a profit within 30 days of purchasing it, but please check to see if you're on solid legal standing to do so. I've read that ATF has not been able to proceed with prosecutions where the firearm was sold for a loss or when the resale occurred 30 days after the original purchase. But again, this could have changed since there doesn't appear to be a hard and fast written rule. Just know it's possible that a visit could happen if you get on their radar. And if you have sold one, and ATF can determine you only had it a short amount of time and made money then then you could be charged with dealing in firearms without a license. I've seen this happen when ATF sends in agents to gun shows who offer to buy guns that they see someone purchase at the show for $ 50.00 - $ 100.00 more than the person had originally paid it. If the person sells to the ATF agent for an immediate profit, he is busted for dealing without a license. This is a federal felony and prevents that person from ever owning guns again. Like it or not all of us must tread lightly as the playing field seems to shift every day and the goal posts are always changing.
 
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This guy purchased seven firearms over seven months. I guess Delaware has different criteria for potential "Straw Purchasers" than other states. I'm not sure that the ATF has enough employees to contact everyone in Texas who buys 7 guns in less than one year (Especially in 2020, 2021, or 2022).
 
If they're from the gubmint, then they’re here to help.

So let me get this straight, 3 individuals show up unannounced and asks to let see the guns you purchased, oh “while we’re here” maybe bring out what else you may have in the hold.
Duh…okay total stranger. Let me gather’m all up and you can take hold of them to inspect and cross reference those numbers.

I hope nobody falls for the ruse, like when a random utility man knocks asking to check the water meter or water quality…nobody gets inside and NO should end all conversation.

Reminded me of a major auto insurance company asking me to state the mileage on my cars for their records. Seems they wanted to either track the miles per year or downgrade the cars replacement value. I ignore all solicitations for info. Never volunteer or give out my real phone number either. For instance, the cable company sent a canvasser out to drum up business, caught me mowing the lawn, told him “not my house, I’m just the handyman“. End of story.

Sneaky foot-in-the-door tactic - or worse.
Nothing in the 4473 says Buyer is subject to house calls, is there? Even in this day of cost analysis, budget constraints, gas guzzling, toxic smog and climate change….even the IRS asks you BY MAIL to justify a deduction or has questions about the 1040 you submitted.

Once inside and the voluntary casual chit-chat conversation is allowed to continue and stray…one can only expect that any admissions can and will be used against you.

What happened to Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell ?
 
SimonRL said:
That’s exactly what I was thinking!

I would like to think if that three showed up on my front porch that I would be as polite as the homeowner in the video. I’d like to think that, but I know otherwise.
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I like to watch videos of traffic stops where the cops ask questions that have no basis on let’s say getting pulled over for not using your turn signals.
One favorite video was one guy just asked the cop the same question he was asked. The officer just got so frustrated he let him go without a ticket.

So ATF/police shows up at your door.
DON’T open the door!!!
Go to a window and talk through the screen.

He asks politely to see the guns you purchased in the last 3 months, you just ask him the same question!!
He asks “do you still have them”
You ask him the same question!!

I could go on and on but I’m sure you got the point.

It’s very simple, you are under no obligation to……………….
TALK TO LAW ENFORCEMENT!!!
You are under no obligation to………
HELP THEM INVESTIGATE YOU!!!!
One word………….
LAWYER!!!
 
SimonRL said:
I was going to say that this visit is the same as getting pulled over for failure to signal. It gives them the pretense to find probable cause.
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Exactly and everything they ask you and (you answer) they will use against you to build a case against you, law enforcement is trained to get you to contradict yourself by asking the same question in different ways, if you don’t answer their questions they have nothing to use against you.
For instance if you are pulled over for a brake light out then don’t answer the question, “where are coming from or where are you going”?
Remember one question answered leads to another and another.
 
Keystone19250 said:
Exactly and everything they ask you and (you answer) they will use against you to build a case against you, law enforcement is trained to get you to contradict yourself by asking the same question in different ways, if you don’t answer their questions they have nothing to use against you.
For instance if you are pulled over for a brake light out then don’t answer the question, “where are coming from or where are you going”?
Remember one question answered leads to another and another.
Click to expand...
I don't subscribe at all to the theory of not answering questions if I'm pulled over for a traffic infraction. Mainly because it makes you look guilty or like a smart ass cop hater. That's completely different than a cop or federal agent asking me about my guns without a warrant.

One time when I was a teenager my brother and I got into a fight while my folks were out of town. Like an idiot he dialed 911. The police showed up and he let them in. By then the situation was already calmed down and we explained it to them. By then one of the cops was already walking around my house and asking me what kind of guns were in the house. That changed my attitude and I told the cop it wasn't any of his business what kind of guns were in the house and that he needed to arrest me or leave. He left. I'll also point out that at that time the smallish, suburban town I lived in had a bunch of D head cops, of which these guys were two. Rejects from the city of STL. I also knew a lot of very cool cops. The kind of cops that would dump your beer out rather than arrest you for minor in possession. Or a county sheriff who might point out that it was a big county with limited police officers and sometimes you have to kill your own snakes. Maybe even tell you to make sure they were in the house before you called the cops.

Anyway.
 
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