Boomsticks
- Thread starter Ginge
- Start date
Ginge
Elite
Ill get on it when I get home.
I have either a shockwave or tac 14 on the future purchase list. That Birdseye maple is a thing of beauty!
I may be wrong but it seems to me like the Remington holds one less shell than the Mossberg does.
Ginge
Elite
It does. The standard Tac14 is 4+1, but the hardwood model they have has a +1 extension installed at the factory.
Thanks , I did not know that. I grew up hunting with a Remington model 31 pump 12 ga and have always been a Remington shotgun fan but were I to buy one of these short bbl. guns it would be the Mossberg .
Ginge
Elite
No problem. I love both of them honestly. I’ll get detailed with the reasons why this afternoon and get some good pics depicting the internals and some deciding factors for both. Many things between them are minor, but they add up overall. Stay tuned!
Ginge
Elite
Ok. So I got them all stripped again, and I believe I Now have the pics needed to properly show some of you the differences between these two war horses. This may be more than one post depending on how many images, I can upload at once.
I’ll start at the barrel, and work back from there.
By now, we’ve established the 590 barrel is heavier, but what about the means to secure it?
On both the 870 and 590, they are secured in place by the same manner. A cap that threads onto the mag tube over a sleeve that is attached to the barrel. The caps are both steel, but they have a different approach as to how they obtain the same result.
The Mossberg is on the left, and the Remington is right. Those little spikes are for a ball detent to engage and keep them from rotating under use. As you can see, the mossberg has it on the outside, and the Remington has them recessed into the cap.
The reason the Mossberg has it on the outside, is to engage the ball detent that is located on the barrel sleeve shown here.
The Remington barrel does not have this detent. Instead it relies on the magazine spring retainer to provide tension to keep the cap from working loose.
Whether or not one is more effective than the other is debatable. Also, this style of cap is called an internal ratchet design, and not the external. The external is found on models other than the express, and are much closer to the 590 system.
Barrels?
The Remington barrel differs from the Mossberg in a few ways. Not only are the cutouts for the extractors different, but the bolt lugs are as well.
The Mossberg barrel has a hole for the lug to engage. The Remington has a machined area for their lug. I prefer the Mossberg style over the Remington in this area.
The mag tubes themselves are very similar, but they still differ in a few small ways. On the Mossberg, it is serviceable, and user replaceable, but not exactly easy. But it threads into the receiver. The Remington however, is not user serviceable, and should not be removed or modified. It has a block on top of it to guide the action arms.
The 590, has a similar design for the arms to ride in, but just a different approach.
Now for the forends. This is one of two things that most people notice immediately when picking up either of these guns.
On the Mossberg, the forend your typical tube, but its action arms are able to move. Theres a reason why they have this movement. It is because they are replaceable. They are pinned in place and have tension on them.
Here you can see Im pushing up on the left one and there is a bit of positive resistance.
When a forend is installed, you cant see the pins.
Now on the 870, the arms are stationary. The tube and arms are sold as one unit. You can see how they are machined to the tube.
The reason I feel this is important, is Ive seen countless people try to tell me that when they pick up the Mossberg, it feels cheap, and has movement. This is the movement they’re talking about. The arms are allowed to move to reduce the possibility of damage if you’re not pulling strait back. It does allow the forend to flex a little bit. But most people dont know this is part of the design. The Remington is much more robust feeling, with less movement, but it doesn’t necessarily equate to a stronger product. I like both designs honestly.
Now the receiver internals.
This is where things can get some people confused. They both have the same parts, just different ways to execute the same process.
On the 870, the ejector is riveted into place. It can be user replaced but not easily if you dont have access to the tools to do it properly.
On the 590, it is screwed into place snd easily swapped out if need be.
I’ll start at the barrel, and work back from there.
By now, we’ve established the 590 barrel is heavier, but what about the means to secure it?
On both the 870 and 590, they are secured in place by the same manner. A cap that threads onto the mag tube over a sleeve that is attached to the barrel. The caps are both steel, but they have a different approach as to how they obtain the same result.
The Mossberg is on the left, and the Remington is right. Those little spikes are for a ball detent to engage and keep them from rotating under use. As you can see, the mossberg has it on the outside, and the Remington has them recessed into the cap.
The reason the Mossberg has it on the outside, is to engage the ball detent that is located on the barrel sleeve shown here.
The Remington barrel does not have this detent. Instead it relies on the magazine spring retainer to provide tension to keep the cap from working loose.
Whether or not one is more effective than the other is debatable. Also, this style of cap is called an internal ratchet design, and not the external. The external is found on models other than the express, and are much closer to the 590 system.
Barrels?
The Remington barrel differs from the Mossberg in a few ways. Not only are the cutouts for the extractors different, but the bolt lugs are as well.
The Mossberg barrel has a hole for the lug to engage. The Remington has a machined area for their lug. I prefer the Mossberg style over the Remington in this area.
The mag tubes themselves are very similar, but they still differ in a few small ways. On the Mossberg, it is serviceable, and user replaceable, but not exactly easy. But it threads into the receiver. The Remington however, is not user serviceable, and should not be removed or modified. It has a block on top of it to guide the action arms.
The 590, has a similar design for the arms to ride in, but just a different approach.
Now for the forends. This is one of two things that most people notice immediately when picking up either of these guns.
On the Mossberg, the forend your typical tube, but its action arms are able to move. Theres a reason why they have this movement. It is because they are replaceable. They are pinned in place and have tension on them.
Here you can see Im pushing up on the left one and there is a bit of positive resistance.
When a forend is installed, you cant see the pins.
Now on the 870, the arms are stationary. The tube and arms are sold as one unit. You can see how they are machined to the tube.
The reason I feel this is important, is Ive seen countless people try to tell me that when they pick up the Mossberg, it feels cheap, and has movement. This is the movement they’re talking about. The arms are allowed to move to reduce the possibility of damage if you’re not pulling strait back. It does allow the forend to flex a little bit. But most people dont know this is part of the design. The Remington is much more robust feeling, with less movement, but it doesn’t necessarily equate to a stronger product. I like both designs honestly.
Now the receiver internals.
This is where things can get some people confused. They both have the same parts, just different ways to execute the same process.
On the 870, the ejector is riveted into place. It can be user replaced but not easily if you dont have access to the tools to do it properly.
On the 590, it is screwed into place snd easily swapped out if need be.
Ginge
Elite
The 870 has its cartridge stops and interruptor staked into place.
The 590 has these parts that are removable.
The bolts
Both models have similar bolt designs, but the 590 has dual extractors and the 870 has 1. The extractors on both are replaceable, as are the rest of the components in the bolts. The Mossberg bolt tends to be more reliable with extraction over the newer mim extractor on the 870. But with the milled replacement they should both exhibit positive extraction
The way these bolts ride in the receiver is something else worth noting. On the 870, the bolt slide sits on the arms, and the bolt on it.
The 590, is slightly different in that the bolt slide sits underneath the arms and the bolt comes down over it.
Its hard to determine what method is better executed.
Trigger assembly
The final difference is in the trigger assembly. They both have the same roles, but are not the same.
The 870, has the elevator built into the trigger assembly, and the action lever is forward of the trigger guard.
The mossberg has a more rectangular trigger guard, and has the action lever located in the rear of the guard, making it easier to access.
They also ride differently. The 870 has its trigger more rearward in the receiver. The Mossberg sits farther forward.
At the end of it, I dont know which one is a better design, but I would and do, rely on them both and trust them both to do me right when the chips fall. Hope this helps you guys decipher the differences.
Ginge
Elite
Thank you sir. I feel like I missed something, but if someone finds it, me or another member can address it. Lol. I love my scatterguns!Lovely breakdown! Thank you!!!!!
LicensedToPill
Operator
Mossberg 500 ATI Tactical with TLR-1 HL and AT3 RD-50 Micro Red Dot Reflex Sight
Ginge
Elite
Sweet. How do you like the red dot?
LicensedToPill
Operator
I absolutely love it. I chamber Federal LE Tactical 00 Buck (9 pellets) w/ Flitecontrol and it punches a fist size hole exactly on the red dot (up to 15-20 yards until it starts to spread)
Ginge
Elite
Nice. Federal has a good wad. Have you tried the Hornady versatite? They pattern about the same from the Tac14.
Annihilator
Emissary
Yes, very good info you gave, thanks.
LicensedToPill
Operator
I have not. I’ll definitely have to try it out.
Ginge
Elite
Definitely try them. Your gun may pattern better with federal, but the federal and Hornady are all I use for My serious use OO buck.
These babies scoot!