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Can't Get My New Saint to Group Worth a Darn

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neanders2

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Hi Guys,

I have a pretty new Saint Victor rifle that seems to be working great. Might need a little more tweaking to have it zeroed just right, but it's grouping and shooting well.

I also have a pretty new Saint rifle, B5 furniture, Mlok rail, standard A2 setup. I was super excited to get it, but so far, I can't get it to group. I'm using a Vortex Strikefire II, same optic that I use on the Victor. I suspected perhaps the optic was bad, so I sent it back to Vortex. They ran it through its paces and said it was 100% functional and accurate in their testing, and even sent back shot-up targets as proof. Seeing this I had an instructor, and the range owner both shoot the rifle in question, and they couldn't group with it either. There's nothing that is obviously wrong at this point (loose barrel, sights out of whack, etc.). So in all, we really don't know what's wrong. I've requested to send it back to Springfield for inspection/repair and I'm waiting to hear back.

Ammo was all 55 gr ball, factory new.

Any ideas? I'm just all bummed out over here.
 
neanders2 said:
Hi Guys,

I have a pretty new Saint Victor rifle that seems to be working great. Might need a little more tweaking to have it zeroed just right, but it's grouping and shooting well.

I also have a pretty new Saint rifle, B5 furniture, Mlok rail, standard A2 setup. I was super excited to get it, but so far, I can't get it to group. I'm using a Vortex Strikefire II, same optic that I use on the Victor. I suspected perhaps the optic was bad, so I sent it back to Vortex. They ran it through its paces and said it was 100% functional and accurate in their testing, and even sent back shot-up targets as proof. Seeing this I had an instructor, and the range owner both shoot the rifle in question, and they couldn't group with it either. There's nothing that is obviously wrong at this point (loose barrel, sights out of whack, etc.). So in all, we really don't know what's wrong. I've requested to send it back to Springfield for inspection/repair and I'm waiting to hear back.

Ammo was all 55 gr ball, factory new.

Any ideas? I'm just all bummed out over here.
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How many rounds through it?
Is there any play between the upper and lower?
 
neanders2 said:
Yep, I did. Now just waiting.
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It’s a good thing letting Springfield know your issues however while you wait I would put more rounds through your gun and try different weights and a manufacturer and make sure you keep it clean and well lubed. I’m sure you will be happy with it.
 
Once you have eliminated loose screws and tolerances, damaged scope, and gas leaks, I would look at the ammo, then barrel. Some barrels are real fussy about bullets. I do not have a Saint Victor but I read it has a 1:8 twist rate barrel. My SIG 516 with 1:7 twist is a tack driver with 72 grain bullets, not so much with 55 grain, the group on mine opens up with lighter bullets. Just my $.02.
 
David N. said:
Do you have iron sights that you can use to group with to rule out issues with the optical sight and mount?
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Agreed. Always zero with iron sights first. Take the red dot off the weapon and solely use the iron sights. It could be the rifle, but it's highly unlikely it's the rifle. The rifling in the barrel would have to be way out specs. But try iron sights, then if the issue persist I would try changing ammunition. I think between the two, you will find your solution. And if not, Springfield has awesome customer service, I am confident they will make it right for you.
 
HayesGreener said:
Once you have eliminated loose screws and tolerances, damaged scope, and gas leaks, I would look at the ammo, then barrel. Some barrels are real fussy about bullets. I do not have a Saint Victor but I read it has a 1:8 twist rate barrel. My SIG 516 with 1:7 twist is a tack driver with 72 grain bullets, not so much with 55 grain, the group on mine opens up with lighter bullets. Just my $.02.
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☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️
 
HayesGreener said:
Once you have eliminated loose screws and tolerances, damaged scope, and gas leaks, I would look at the ammo, then barrel. Some barrels are real fussy about bullets. I do not have a Saint Victor but I read it has a 1:8 twist rate barrel. My SIG 516 with 1:7 twist is a tack driver with 72 grain bullets, not so much with 55 grain, the group on mine opens up with lighter bullets. Just my $.02.
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^ Agreed with this troubleshooting tree.

I would also add multiple known-good shooters of the platform into the equation, too, which the OP did accomplish. :)

Unique guns can perform better/worse with unique ammo, and the rule-of-thumb of heavier (longer) bullets for faster-twist barrels may or may not reflect the way your unique gun performs, in the real-world.

I've got a 16" BCM BHF ELW-profile barrel that just loves 55 gr. range-fodder..........

Once these common and easy-to-verify areas have seen sufficient troubleshooting, it's time for the end-user to return the gun to the manufacturer or to consult a good gunsmith.
 
When you say "won't group"--how big are they? 3" @100 yds? Under 6"?

I would try a different load, in case the issue is with your particular lot of ammunition; it wouldn't be necessary to change bullet weights, though. I know I had some surplus Indonesian M193 that didn't group well out of any rifle; turns out when we ran it over a chrony that it had over 400fps of difference between rounds...
 
I would have another shooter try to see if he/she can do with the same ammo, since it could be an operator issue.
 
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Talyn said:
I would have another shooter try to see if he/she can do with the same ammo, since it could be an operator issue.
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It’s three shooters now. Myself, the range instructor and the range owner. Thought I put all that in the original post, sorry if I didn’t. I’m more than willing to admit I’m not a pro level shooter, but I’m not a bad shot either and with other AR’s I’m grouping no problem.
 
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