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For the record

Those who know me know I was in LE for many years. First let me say that with around 850,000 officers in 17,000 agencies, there are some bad apples with a wide spectrum of misbehavior. I personally investigated some criminal behavior by LEO's in my career. As an investigator I did my part to send a few officers to prison, and later as an administrator I fired a few who were just unsuited to the work. On hindsight, every one of those officers should never have been hired. They slipped though the screening. Recruitment, selection, training, and discipline determine the quality of police service you get. If your agency fails in those areas, your potential for misconduct increases. Recruitment, selection, training, and discipline is costly. You get what you pay for.

In my experience, powerful police unions, especially in the Northeast, often hinder efforts to clean up and professionalize LEO agencies.

The good news is, the vast majority of officers are committed public servants trying to do a job making our communities safer. They must have the authority to use force and make arrests. They are the only profession in our country with those powers, which comes with a leadership responsibility to strictly control those powers. A culture of excessive or unnecessary force, or unjust use of the powers of arrest can only exist where there is a failure or absence of leadership. Add that to failure to properly recruit, select, train, and discipline officers, and you get a rogue, or at least an unprofessional agency. On balance, though, I have witnessed many, many incidents where officers would have been legally justified in using force, but showed great restraint in finding another way.

We saw some discussion about officer deaths here a few days ago. To date this year, as reported by ODMP, 116 U.S. officers have been killed in the line of duty. 55 of those officers were killed feloniously, either by gunfire, stabbing, assault, or vehile assault. Most of the rest were killed in traffic incidents of one form or another. The number killed feloniously seems to be trending higher than last year.

With respect to firefighters killed in the line of duty, FEMA reports there have been 51 to date this year. I have great respect for firefighters, they are lifesavers. They have a dangerous job and those I know displayed great courage. Some were part of my SWAT team as SWAT medics. But the danger to their lives is of a different character than for LEO's. When a firefighter is injured or killed, it is typically from a fire or other disaster related call, not from someone trying to murder them. It is critical work of great importance, but different in nature to LEO's.
 
Those who know me know I was in LE for many years. First let me say that with around 850,000 officers in 17,000 agencies, there are some bad apples with a wide spectrum of misbehavior. I personally investigated some criminal behavior by LEO's in my career. As an investigator I did my part to send a few officers to prison, and later as an administrator I fired a few who were just unsuited to the work. On hindsight, every one of those officers should never have been hired. They slipped though the screening. Recruitment, selection, training, and discipline determine the quality of police service you get. If your agency fails in those areas, your potential for misconduct increases. Recruitment, selection, training, and discipline is costly. You get what you pay for.

In my experience, powerful police unions, especially in the Northeast, often hinder efforts to clean up and professionalize LEO agencies.

The good news is, the vast majority of officers are committed public servants trying to do a job making our communities safer. They must have the authority to use force and make arrests. They are the only profession in our country with those powers, which comes with a leadership responsibility to strictly control those powers. A culture of excessive or unnecessary force, or unjust use of the powers of arrest can only exist where there is a failure or absence of leadership. Add that to failure to properly recruit, select, train, and discipline officers, and you get a rogue, or at least an unprofessional agency. On balance, though, I have witnessed many, many incidents where officers would have been legally justified in using force, but showed great restraint in finding another way.

We saw some discussion about officer deaths here a few days ago. To date this year, as reported by ODMP, 116 U.S. officers have been killed in the line of duty. 55 of those officers were killed feloniously, either by gunfire, stabbing, assault, or vehile assault. Most of the rest were killed in traffic incidents of one form or another. The number killed feloniously seems to be trending higher than last year.

With respect to firefighters killed in the line of duty, FEMA reports there have been 51 to date this year. I have great respect for firefighters, they are lifesavers. They have a dangerous job and those I know displayed great courage. Some were part of my SWAT team as SWAT medics. But the danger to their lives is of a different character than for LEO's. When a firefighter is injured or killed, it is typically from a fire or other disaster related call, not from someone trying to murder them. It is critical work of great importance, but different in nature to LEO's.
Dead in the line of duty is dead in my mind, i do not make distinctions it takes brass balls to work as a law enforcement officer with targets on your back and it takes brass balls to run into a burning building to save someone.

But, I find the targeting of law enforcement officers a most reprehensible of crimes and should be a death sentence offense federally. Imho
 
Those who know me know I was in LE for many years. First let me say that with around 850,000 officers in 17,000 agencies, there are some bad apples with a wide spectrum of misbehavior. I personally investigated some criminal behavior by LEO's in my career. As an investigator I did my part to send a few officers to prison, and later as an administrator I fired a few who were just unsuited to the work. On hindsight, every one of those officers should never have been hired. They slipped though the screening. Recruitment, selection, training, and discipline determine the quality of police service you get. If your agency fails in those areas, your potential for misconduct increases. Recruitment, selection, training, and discipline is costly. You get what you pay for.

In my experience, powerful police unions, especially in the Northeast, often hinder efforts to clean up and professionalize LEO agencies.

The good news is, the vast majority of officers are committed public servants trying to do a job making our communities safer. They must have the authority to use force and make arrests. They are the only profession in our country with those powers, which comes with a leadership responsibility to strictly control those powers. A culture of excessive or unnecessary force, or unjust use of the powers of arrest can only exist where there is a failure or absence of leadership. Add that to failure to properly recruit, select, train, and discipline officers, and you get a rogue, or at least an unprofessional agency. On balance, though, I have witnessed many, many incidents where officers would have been legally justified in using force, but showed great restraint in finding another way.

We saw some discussion about officer deaths here a few days ago. To date this year, as reported by ODMP, 116 U.S. officers have been killed in the line of duty. 55 of those officers were killed feloniously, either by gunfire, stabbing, assault, or vehile assault. Most of the rest were killed in traffic incidents of one form or another. The number killed feloniously seems to be trending higher than last year.

With respect to firefighters killed in the line of duty, FEMA reports there have been 51 to date this year. I have great respect for firefighters, they are lifesavers. They have a dangerous job and those I know displayed great courage. Some were part of my SWAT team as SWAT medics. But the danger to their lives is of a different character than for LEO's. When a firefighter is injured or killed, it is typically from a fire or other disaster related call, not from someone trying to murder them. It is critical work of great importance, but different in nature to LEO's.


I hope you don't take my not having a blanket trust of LEO the wrong way Hayes. When I was a kid I trusted all cops, but not now. In my experience if you spend more than a minute or two with an on duty cop you can get a pretty good feel of what kind of man they are. Not always, but more often than not I think. I agree completely with your assessment and I'm sure it applies to FBI agents as well. However, I have met way more D head FBI agents than ones that seemed to be in it for the right reasons.

For the record, I have more than a couple good friends who are cops.
 
Those who know me know I was in LE for many years. First let me say that with around 850,000 officers in 17,000 agencies, there are some bad apples with a wide spectrum of misbehavior. I personally investigated some criminal behavior by LEO's in my career. As an investigator I did my part to send a few officers to prison, and later as an administrator I fired a few who were just unsuited to the work. On hindsight, every one of those officers should never have been hired. They slipped though the screening. Recruitment, selection, training, and discipline determine the quality of police service you get. If your agency fails in those areas, your potential for misconduct increases. Recruitment, selection, training, and discipline is costly. You get what you pay for.

In my experience, powerful police unions, especially in the Northeast, often hinder efforts to clean up and professionalize LEO agencies.

The good news is, the vast majority of officers are committed public servants trying to do a job making our communities safer. They must have the authority to use force and make arrests. They are the only profession in our country with those powers, which comes with a leadership responsibility to strictly control those powers. A culture of excessive or unnecessary force, or unjust use of the powers of arrest can only exist where there is a failure or absence of leadership. Add that to failure to properly recruit, select, train, and discipline officers, and you get a rogue, or at least an unprofessional agency. On balance, though, I have witnessed many, many incidents where officers would have been legally justified in using force, but showed great restraint in finding another way.

We saw some discussion about officer deaths here a few days ago. To date this year, as reported by ODMP, 116 U.S. officers have been killed in the line of duty. 55 of those officers were killed feloniously, either by gunfire, stabbing, assault, or vehile assault. Most of the rest were killed in traffic incidents of one form or another. The number killed feloniously seems to be trending higher than last year.

With respect to firefighters killed in the line of duty, FEMA reports there have been 51 to date this year. I have great respect for firefighters, they are lifesavers. They have a dangerous job and those I know displayed great courage. Some were part of my SWAT team as SWAT medics. But the danger to their lives is of a different character than for LEO's. When a firefighter is injured or killed, it is typically from a fire or other disaster related call, not from someone trying to murder them. It is critical work of great importance, but different in nature to LEO's.
I worked with an officer that routinely on traffic stops made all occupants exit the vehicle and make them empty their pockets/purses. The first time I saw this asked him why he did this. His reply was you never know who's carrying drugs or guns. About a week later he did the same thing this time with an elderly lady making her empty her purse on the trunk of her car. Went to my Chief told the story, his reply was this officer was just trying to do a good job. Worked there for about six more months before resigning. Found a new agency that followed the law and procedures.
 
I hope you don't take my not having a blanket trust of LEO the wrong way Hayes. When I was a kid I trusted all cops, but not now. In my experience if you spend more than a minute or two with an on duty cop you can get a pretty good feel of what kind of man they are. Not always, but more often than not I think. I agree completely with your assessment and I'm sure it applies to FBI agents as well. However, I have met way more D head FBI agents than ones that seemed to be in it for the right reasons.

For the record, I have more than a couple good friends who are cops.
No offense at all. I worked every aspect of policing, everything from patrolman to chief, every job but police dog, so I have seen the job from all angles. I have no illusions and don't blanket trust anyone, including doctors. I also worked with a lot of FBI agents on cases over the years and found most to be dedicated professionals. Their management not so much. There are good and not so good people in every profession, but leadership sets the tone.
 
Dead in the line of duty is dead in my mind, i do not make distinctions it takes brass balls to work as a law enforcement officer with targets on your back and it takes brass balls to run into a burning building to save someone.

But, I find the targeting of law enforcement officers a most reprehensible of crimes and should be a death sentence offense federally. Imho
Agreed. Anyone who attacks an LEO with intent to kill needs the chair. Grandson was shot at twice last year by a-holes who the cried “don’t shoot” when he or his partner got the drop on them.
 
Thank you for your service, Hayes. Yes, there are bad apples and idiots in every profession and walk of life. If I get pulled over, I am respectful and do what is asked of me. If they get out of line I will let my lawyer, not my mouth, handle it.

I remember back in my ute, I got pulled over for speeding. The officer was behind me, and observed me passing a school bus. Bus was doing the speed limit, I was running late for work.
He pulls me over, asks for my license, registration and pilot license. Very humorous. I acted respectful and got a warning.

My Dad taught us to be respectful, say "yes sir/ma'am, no sir/ma'am". Do what they say, and if they are wrong, that is what court is for.
 
A very good post, Hayes. It made me think of the movie “Police Academy” and all the different personalty types highlighted in the movie. A lot of professions perk along behind the scene, but police and firefighters take care of business in front of God and everybody. Any hiccups these days are jumped on by the media and often used to cast a negative light, especially on law enforcement. Some agencies in my area are very active on social media which helps the public to see all the good instead of the few instances of the bad. I think this helps a lot.

Thanks for the thread.
 
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