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GOAT Sniper

C. Sumpin

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Right up front it is Carlos Hathcock.

While each military conflict has its greats, “White Feather” of Vietnam fame is/was in a class to himself and likely never to be
surpassed in the sniping skills. As every sport or trade has its talent with natural ability, Hathcock had a singular superior spot with focus, courage, determination, self discipline, physical, psychological and emotional surplus. He was a dangerous man.

Oh! but he can’t be the GOAT you say; he has been surpassed with confirmed kills! If that is the only criteria then yes. But so many other aspects of sniper warfare/achievement must be considered.

Terrain: In later conflicts the wide open spaces where you could view into forever, maximizing optics and with few obstacles (easier accounting of confirmed kills) and in a (relatively) comfortable sniper hide (with amenities) after which you could have a fair meal and rest for the next duty is a world away from worming on ones belly for up to four days and nights (eating, drinking, sleeping (if possible), and if unable to refuse natures call then doing the deed and taking it with you in your trousers until the shot was taken. And often enough without a spotter (few could sustain the rigors and discipline to complete a mission with the Feather), all the while enduring heat, blistering sun, cold nights, drenching rain, snakes, tigers and such, insects/leeches that could not be trifled with until mission complete, generally requiring a close in shot due to foliage (which also raised the risks of being discovered, and possibly missing a confirmed kill ), then after the score (sometimes not, high level targets were often only a prediction from intel as to when/where they might show) the hike back to the firebase.

And we have yet to mention the eclipse/advances in equipment; firearms, ammo/ballistics, optics, night/heat vision, clothing and transportation, and yes, communication support in real time from other units/intelligence sources, which taken altogether, increased the odds of sniper success.

There are other elements in the mix not mentioned but as you can see the case is clearly made that Marine GySgt Carlos Norman Hathcock II is and forever will be the GOAT SNIPER.

Copyright C. Sumpin
 
I met Gunny Hathcock when he came to do sniper seminars at the SWAT Roundup in Orlando. He was a pleasant fellow to talk with and one would never guess how dangerous he was from his speech and manner. The MS was beginning to show when I last saw him, MS was a dirty trick on such a vital fellow. I feel fortunate that I was able to meet this great American warrior. He autographed a book for me and it is one of my most prized possessions.
 
I met Gunny Hathcock when he came to do sniper seminars at the SWAT Roundup in Orlando. He was a pleasant fellow to talk with and one would never guess how dangerous he was from his speech and manner. The MS was beginning to show when I last saw him, MS was a dirty trick on such a vital fellow. I feel fortunate that I was able to meet this great American warrior. He autographed a book for me and it is one of my most prized possessions.
Correct you are, he was a gentleman when off the battlefield. He enjoyed the hunt but did not get off on killing, even the enemy, but done it knowing he was saving many a young man/comrade. Perhaps there was no joy in it but there certainly was satisfaction when he eliminated the NVA B**** that was known for her particular hatred and torture and killing of GI's. On that particular mission, his positive ID of her from the others was when she squatted to relieve herself.

With the normal going bounty from the NVA for certain scalps maxed out at $2000 but for Hathcock at $30,000 testifies of his damage and fear to the enemy.

The most courageous, best trained and skilled fighters in any military are from AMERICA!
 
While I agree with most all of what's been said, i gotta point something out. The Canadians have really upped their game in the last couple decades. I believe one has the record for longest shot resulting in a confirmed kill. Then his country rewarded him by discrediting his shot saying it was inhumane. I'd have to look up the details. The point is, there's some good shooters out there and not just from here.
 
I think the mystique of Gunny Hathcock is in part his extraordinary marksmanship, in part his extreme courage and commitment to his craft, and in part his patience and skill at woodcraft. Prior to Korea a lot of commanders saw snipers as sneaky bastards vice conventional warriors. By the time we got into that war, commanders understood the value of snipers against high value targets and as counter-snipers. Vietnam was an ideal battlefield to perfect the craft. Much that is taught today in sniper schools are hard won lessons learned by Gunny and other professionals in the field. He was a pioneer and his name is still spoken in reverence in USMC marksmanship circles. By comparison to today's ranging technology, his equipment was primitive. One can only imagine what he might have accomplished with current long range sniping capabilities.
 
An Israeli sniper just knocked off this week a Syrian high official that they said was working on behalf of Iran . Israel shot him from the Golan heights into Syria and hit him besides his house.

Sniping is still an effective tool on high value targets. Instills fear as well.

 
In his time and conlfict Gunny H was right up there, but there were several others in WW2 especially on the Eastern Front from Germany, Russia and Finland (Simo Hayha) that were highly skilled, had higher counts, and operated under harsher conditions with more primitive weapons.

And most recently, snipers in Iraq and Afghanistand from several countries have also been skilled, connected under more difficult opes and at longer ranges & conditions than Gunny H.

I'd put Chris Kyle right up there.

My .02
 
In his time and conlfict Gunny H was right up there, but there were several others in WW2 especially on the Eastern Front from Germany, Russia and Finland (Simo Hayha) that were highly skilled, had higher counts, and operated under harsher conditions with more primitive weapons.

And most recently, snipers in Iraq and Afghanistand from several countries have also been skilled, connected under more difficult opes and at longer ranges & conditions than Gunny H.

I'd put Chris Kyle right up there.

My .02
I take nothing away from any of them, they were all good.....but "under more difficult conditions" needs some explanation please.
 
High elevation mountainous conditions as far as Afghanistan, Stalingrad (no further explanation needed there), and sub-zero Arctic winter conditions in Finland.




 
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Ninety days in the snow versus twenty six months in the jungle; (two 13 month tours).

Russians all over the place, dozens from a single hide in a few minutes.

Hathcock: A kill per mission. Most required stalking. Hayhas count is impressive but the two can not be compared.
 
Ninety days in the snow versus twenty six months in the jungle; (two 13 month tours).

Russians all over the place, dozens from a single hide in a few minutes.

Hathcock: A kill per mission. Most required stalking. Hayhas count is impressive but the two can not be compared.
Hayla 5+ kills per mission/day at -45 deg F in 100 days.

I wasn't discounting CHs accomlishments, just disclosing the facts & circumstances between the two.

You're entitled to your perspective, but the facts are the facts.
 
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Since we're talking sniping in general and those who raised the bar, I'm gonna drop this name. You guys Google it. Talk about, "Hell hath no fury..."
Lyudmila Pavlichenko
 
Since we're talking sniping in general and those who raised the bar, I'm gonna drop this name. You guys Google it. Talk about, "Hell hath no fury..."
Lyudmila Pavlichenko
Absolutely.

The Soviets had several women snipers with high counts. I previously mentioned Stalingrad, where the conditions & combat were pretty brutal for snipers on both sides.

After Hayla the next high count sniper of all time was a Soviet.
 
Always goes back to "count". l gave you that in the original post.

What did it take to get that count? When that is a part of the criteria then that is where Gunny Hathcock stands alone.
 
Always goes back to "count". l gave you that in the original post.

What did it take to get that count? When that is a part of the criteria then that is where Gunny Hathcock stands alone.
I'm not focused on the count, but the historical record.

Gunny H was only credited with 93 but he claimed he "did" 300-400. I believe him. But....

The historical record of sniping didn't begin or end with Gunny H. His accomplishments in "Nam" are part of the historical record, but others came before & after him in that profession.

You're entitled to your perspective & admiration of his accomlishments, as I am, but I look at the whole historical record.
 
Everyone mentioned stepped up to their nations calling. They each performed beyond what was asked. I think that their accomplishments speak for themselves and that there shouldn't be a score. Each theater had its own circumstances, environment and politics.
 
Everyone mentioned stepped up to their nations calling. They each performed beyond what was asked. I think that their accomplishments speak for themselves and that there shouldn't be a score. Each theater had its own circumstances, environment and politics.
Should not be a score (headcount?), that's what I'm talking about.
With Carlos, it was the stalk/hunt that he enjoyed. Due to the rigors of the environment and his drive he was at one point restricted from duty as he had dropped to 120 pounds in weight; forced time to recover.
 
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