Annihilator
Emissary
NRA Family | Home Defense for Newbies: Pistol-Grip-Only Shotguns vs. Pistol-Caliber Carbines
Both platforms are excellent choices, but there are some things newbies need to know.
Home Defense for Newbies Pistol Grip Only Shotguns vs Pistol Caliber Carbines
- Thread starter Annihilator
- Start date
HansGruber
Ronin
I agree pretty much completely.
With the exception of my .410 Shockwave, all of my shotguns have buttstocks. I’d much rather aim my weapon than simply point it in the general direction...and considering that an across the room shot is likely going to be well under 20 feet, you’re going to be looking at a pattern of under 3”...which is more of a group than a pattern.
A short-barreled PCC is my go-to for home defense—backed with a 8-shot 12ga...with a stock.
With the exception of my .410 Shockwave, all of my shotguns have buttstocks. I’d much rather aim my weapon than simply point it in the general direction...and considering that an across the room shot is likely going to be well under 20 feet, you’re going to be looking at a pattern of under 3”...which is more of a group than a pattern.
A short-barreled PCC is my go-to for home defense—backed with a 8-shot 12ga...with a stock.
Tenbones
Master Class
Let's face it, those pistol-grip shotguns may look cool, but they are not fun to shoot (much). The quickest way I can think of to turn off a first time gun buyer is to sell him a pistol-grip shotgun. A PCC, on the other hand, would be an excellent choice for a 'noob'. It gives them the comfort and stability of a shoulder stock and the builds familiarity, confidence and effectiveness with a handgun caliber.
BET7
Ronin
I have two "Birdhead" shotguns (Mossberg 590M & Remington 870 Tac14DM). I put a Crimson Trace green laser saddle on the Mossberg & Crimson Trace announced they're ready to start shipping the same for the Remington 870's as well (they mentioned 1st Quarter 2020, but what's going on may have delayed that).
I agree, to aim a shotgun, a stock to shoulder it with, is a must. But from watching several videos, it does appear that shooting with the laser saddle from the hip is pretty darn accurate. But you are relying on a electronically driven device, so I get the reluctance one might have.
My solution
, why not have both or more of what the article recommends. For me, besides the 2 shotguns, I have the CZ Scorpion Mini 9mm, and an AR15 pistol chambered in 300 BO. I also have quick access to 3 pistols, 2 9mm and a 10mm.
I realize not everyone can have such a selection of firearms, but there are other alternatives whether it be as the article states or others.
Good post Anni.
I agree, to aim a shotgun, a stock to shoulder it with, is a must. But from watching several videos, it does appear that shooting with the laser saddle from the hip is pretty darn accurate. But you are relying on a electronically driven device, so I get the reluctance one might have.
My solution
, why not have both or more of what the article recommends. For me, besides the 2 shotguns, I have the CZ Scorpion Mini 9mm, and an AR15 pistol chambered in 300 BO. I also have quick access to 3 pistols, 2 9mm and a 10mm.I realize not everyone can have such a selection of firearms, but there are other alternatives whether it be as the article states or others.
Good post Anni.
Bassbob
Emissary
I had a 500 with a pistol grip for years and years. I trained with it and i shot the crap out of it. I am very accurate with it from the hip inside about 30 feet. About 6 months ago I changed the forend to a Magpul and put a vert grip on it. Not fully trusting the 2 screws holding the VRG on the forend was the main factor in my decision to take the pistol grip off the rear. So I put a telescoping AR style combo butt stock on it. Best of both worlds. I have been training with it and while I don't think it's quicker I do think follow up shots are faster and it's more accurate.
This is it after I swapped the stock forend for the Magpul and the VRG.
Here I have added a light with a pressure switch.
Here it is with the new telescoping butt stock.
Part of me wants to put the pistol grip back on it though. I trained with it like that for years and years and now I miss having a short shotgun. I already got the long shotgun covered with this.
Then again, as soon as they are back in stock I will have the short shotgun covered once again with an SRM 1216 that I plan to work into the "Next to my bed" position.
This is it after I swapped the stock forend for the Magpul and the VRG.
Here I have added a light with a pressure switch.
Here it is with the new telescoping butt stock.
Part of me wants to put the pistol grip back on it though. I trained with it like that for years and years and now I miss having a short shotgun. I already got the long shotgun covered with this.
Then again, as soon as they are back in stock I will have the short shotgun covered once again with an SRM 1216 that I plan to work into the "Next to my bed" position.
Bassbob
Emissary
I should add that per the article, I agree for newbies and a lot of other people as well. And I think a Pistol Caliber Carbine is a good HD weapon too.
I am extremely comfortable and experienced with shotguns and have shot 3" 00B through that 500 with the pistol grip stock many, many, many times. Although I have since switched everything over to 2 3/4" OOB.
I am extremely comfortable and experienced with shotguns and have shot 3" 00B through that 500 with the pistol grip stock many, many, many times. Although I have since switched everything over to 2 3/4" OOB.
Troy Scott Fitch
Master Class
The key word is newbe.A pistol grip shotgun in 12 ga.will most likely come in close contact with a new shooters face.The PPC or leaver action in pistol cal.would be a safer choice for the first time shooters.
I wouldn’t mind this “bed side” shotgun if it was pump action and didn’t have that forward grip handle. Personal preference nothing wrong with them tho.Part of me wants to put the pistol grip back on it though. I trained with it like that for years and years and now I miss having a short shotgun. I already got the long shotgun covered with this.
Then again, as soon as they are back in stock I will have the short shotgun covered once again with an SRM 1216 that I plan to work into the "Next to my bed" position.
Bassbob
Emissary
I wouldn’t mind this “bed side” shotgun if it was pump action and didn’t have that forward grip handle. Personal preference nothing wrong with them tho.[QUOTE="Bassbob, post:
Part of me wants to put the pistol grip back on it though. I trained with it like that for years and years and now I miss having a short shotgun. I already got the long shotgun covered with this.
Then again, as soon as they are back in stock I will have the short shotgun covered once again with an SRM 1216 that I plan to work into the "Next to my bed" position.
[/QUOTE]
Which shotgun are you referring to? If you mean the one in this picture, it IS a pump action.
KSG25 (25 rounds). Fed by dual 12 rd. feed tubes
I have trained near daily with this shotgun for a couple months and I have no issues getting around corners or anything with it ( Barrel length 30.5" but it is bullpup. Overall length is 39" ). It would make a fine bedside weapon, but it is heavier and longer than the Mossberg so my thought is that in a "Barely awake" state I will be able to get the 500 up quicker.
Now the SRM 1216 is a 16+1, semi-auto fed by rotating tubes ( I am not a fan of box magazines on shotguns) with an overall length of 34". This shotgun, after proven reliable and effective, will replace the Mossberg by the bed and most likely will not be outfitted with a red dot or any other sight. At least as long as it occupies the bed side position.
I was meaning the SRM 1216. I love the look of it. I’m just really partial to the pump action shotguns.
Bassbob
Emissary
I was meaning the SRM 1216. I love the look of it. I’m just really partial to the pump action shotguns.
[/QUOTE]
I am too. The only SAs I currently have are bird guns and duck guns. All my "Defensive shotguns" are pumps. My main criteria being high capacity ( or at least better than 5). I do practice " Tactical reloads" but I really don't want to have to ever rely on it. Lately I am intrigued by really high capacity shotguns ( Hence the KSG) and I have been researching and hem hawing about a semi- auto for a good while now. I really don't care much for all the lower end AR and AK style shotguns with box magazines, but if I could get my hands on an AA12 with a 20 rd. drum I'd give it a go. The two I have narrowed it down to are both very similar. The IWI Tavor TS12 and the SRM 1216. Reliability is or has been somewhat questionable on both of them, but then the KSG had a lot of problems when it first came out too. Mine has ran reliably for about 700 rounds now. I did do a little bit of extra curricular work to the bore and the little tab/guides over the feeding tubes.
Bassbob
Emissary
Both guns do look awesome. I’ve held both but haven’t fired ether. The only problem I see with the TS12 is the tubes they aren’t holding what they are said to and there has been countless issues with a round getting stuck in the action section between the tubes and the chamber.
Bassbob
Emissary
From what I have read there were more problems with the TS12 than the 1216. Which surprised me frankly given the reliability of the Tavor rifles and Israeli weaponry in general. They've both been out for quite a while now and I would assume a lot of the bugs have been worked out.
I don't know of any place I can actually fire either of these shotguns and so I will most likely be ordering one sight unseen so to speak. So I'm reading tons of reviews and paying attention to issues and how the respective companies deal with it from a customer service stand point.
I have a IWI rep that I speak with on a regular sense I help run a page of theirs on FB. They seem to be really responsive to complaints and eager to fix the problems.
I have never liked the regular pistol grip on a shotgun . I grew up hunting and running a pump shotgun so I know my way around a pump shotgun.
That said , I would love to get a Shockwave with a laser sight on it. I also saw a video a few days ago , ( maybe on this site ) showing how to shoot a shockwave type shotgun by bringing it up to sight in a way as not to hit yourself in the head during recoil.
I do agree that these shotguns are not for newbies .
That said , I would love to get a Shockwave with a laser sight on it. I also saw a video a few days ago , ( maybe on this site ) showing how to shoot a shockwave type shotgun by bringing it up to sight in a way as not to hit yourself in the head during recoil.
I do agree that these shotguns are not for newbies .
americanwolfman
Operator
Having multiple shotguns and pcc's, I have trained MANY new shooters on both platforms and the pcc is DEFINITIVELY easier to teach and for them to handle, especially when it comes to recoil management and reloading procedures.
BangBang
Professional
Good article @Annihilator and @HansGruber and others couldn’t have said it better, pertaining to the Tac-14 style shoguns. I’m on the boat of the PCC as a home defense weapon. I think the Shockwave and Tac-14 have their place in certain situations or scenarios, due to their compactness. With the PCC, especially the new Ruger Charger 9mm, why not?
Bassbob
Emissary
I think pretty much anything you actually train with can be effective. The only disadvantage I see with a PCC is the " Things that go bump in the night" scenario. You will still be firing a single, small projectile, most likely without aiming. True enough your odds of hitting an attacker are pretty good, but how many bullets are you going to loose to do it?