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I was the gas man today

Belt Fed

Belt Fed

Ronin
Ha ha, not the kind of gas you thought about. :ROFLMAO:

So i limped out side and went by the propane tank and whew it was a strong smell, now my back is in bad shape but this was strong. so i open the lid and check the valve and spray soapy water on the connections and bingo i found it, was leaking from the tank to the house. the nut was busted.

Now i didn't even feel like messin with it but knew it was an easy peasy fix. I hobbled out to the shop to get the tools i needed. Turned the gas off and removed old nut, have to back them off and remove the flair on the copper line. used a small pipe cutter for that. then slid the old one off and new one on, then had to get the tubing flair tool and flair it and a little thread sealer and back on with some wrenches. didn't take long. took longer to light the appliances in the house. propane has little pressure and it takes a while to get to the unit. now the heater and stove have auto lighters, my hot water heater has a pilot and it took a bit to get it lit.

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Propane is a high pressure gas the atomizes from a orifice/jet/nozzle unlike NG being very low pressure (ounces of pressure) that takes volume to operate. I'm not sure what the minimum operating pressure it takes for propane to operate? Using Ford industrial engines (534ci) for our water pumps we use 2" then reduce it to 1 1/4" above ground with a regulator regulated at 6-8oz of pressure.
 
Belt Fed said:
Ha ha, not the kind of gas you thought about. :ROFLMAO:

So i limped out side and went by the propane tank and whew it was a strong smell, now my back is in bad shape but this was strong. so i open the lid and check the valve and spray soapy water on the connections and bingo i found it, was leaking from the tank to the house. the nut was busted.

Now i didn't even feel like messin with it but knew it was an easy peasy fix. I hobbled out to the shop to get the tools i needed. Turned the gas off and removed old nut, have to back them off and remove the flair on the copper line. used a small pipe cutter for that. then slid the old one off and new one on, then had to get the tubing flair tool and flair it and a little thread sealer and back on with some wrenches. didn't take long. took longer to light the appliances in the house. propane has little pressure and it takes a while to get to the unit. now the heater and stove have auto lighters, my hot water heater has a pilot and it took a bit to get it lit.

20230502_114834.jpg

20230502_114929.jpg

20230502_121247.jpg
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I am an actual gas man. I usually use (yellow) teflon tape on flare fittings.

Propane is nasty stuff. ALWAYS wear gloves when working with it.
 
Annihilator said:
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Old timers ( and I have done it as well) used to use a lighter to leak test NG fuel runs. It may sound crazy, but if you think about it's not that big a deal. Gas will not suck the flame in through a leak or anything. And you will find a fizzr if theres one there. These days I use leak soap.

Fun fact. NG is flammable at 1200 degrees. I have tapped many gas mains with a cigarette hanging out of my mouth. A cigarette burns at about 800 degrees. NG has a LEL ( lower explosive limit) between 4 and 14%. Any less than 4% there isn't enough gas to explode and any more than 14% there isn't enough oxygen to be explosive. The LEL on propane is wider. I think it's like 3-18% or something. When gas migrates into a vault or a house and concentrates between those numbers a cell phone or a doorbell can level a city block.
 
TEXASforLIFE said:
I guess distance, amount of applications being used and bends in the line will play a part on what size is needed.
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For home appliances 3/8" soft copper is fine. Distance doesn't matter, pressure and load matters. I don't remember what the number is for a regulator on propane, but natural gas is 7" water column. Somewhere around 1/4 lb. That is a typical house with a regular 250 meter. When the load is higher it will need a 2 lb meter or a bigger rotary meter and it will not be measured with a manometer.
 
Bassbob said:
For home appliances 3/8" soft copper is fine. Distance doesn't matter, pressure and load matters. I don't remember what the number is for a regulator on propane, but natural gas is 7" water column. Somewhere around 1/4 lb. That is a typical house with a regular 250 meter. When the load is higher it will need a 2 lb meter or a bigger rotary meter and it will not be measured with a manometer.
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I haven't run any propane over 100' and at that distance there's not any or enough loss that it makes any difference on size. NG does make a difference though and is the reason why there's so many boosters out in the middle on nowhere. Line pressure is 600psi or more with a 36" or larger supply line. Not sure what cities use, but probable nothing less than 2-4" before going into a residence. After that most houses can go down to 1-1 1/4 and still have enough supply without flame outs or intermittent outages. Depending on the size of the propane tank depicts on how far from the residence is mandated by law (the smaller the closer it can be). I state these facts only be what Texas says so, but out in the country you're on your own by what you want to do. These are why we usually do our own work instead of hiring someone as for the guidelines they have to go by.
 
Bassbob said:
Old timers ( and I have done it as well) used to use a lighter to leak test NG fuel runs. It may sound crazy, but if you think about it's not that big a deal. Gas will not suck the flame in through a leak or anything. And you will find a fizzr if theres one there. These days I use leak soap.

Fun fact. NG is flammable at 1200 degrees. I have tapped many gas mains with a cigarette hanging out of my mouth. A cigarette burns at about 800 degrees. NG has a LEL ( lower explosive limit) between 4 and 14%. Any less than 4% there isn't enough gas to explode and any more than 14% there isn't enough oxygen to be explosive. The LEL on propane is wider. I think it's like 3-18% or something. When gas migrates into a vault or a house and concentrates between those numbers a cell phone or a doorbell can level a city block.
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Have anyone noticed that in take electric fuel pumps don't have any insulation on the wires (well most don't I've seen)? Not enough 02 to set it off from what I've read and been told by manufacturers. I guess "what you don't know won't hurt you" comes out to play............................some things you wish you didn't know?
 
TEXASforLIFE said:
I haven't run any propane over 100' and at that distance there's not any or enough loss that it makes any difference on size. NG does make a difference though and is the reason why there's so many boosters out in the middle on nowhere. Line pressure is 600psi or more with a 36" or larger supply line. Not sure what cities use, but probable nothing less than 2-4" before going into a residence. After that most houses can go down to 1-1 1/4 and still have enough supply without flame outs or intermittent outages. Depending on the size of the propane tank depicts on how far from the residence is mandated by law (the smaller the closer it can be). I state these facts only be what Texas says so, but out in the country you're on your own by what you want to do. These are why we usually do our own work instead of hiring someone as for the guidelines they have to go by.
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All the mains in the east central and St. Louis area ( and there are many, many miles of them ) are controlled from our underground storage facility across the river from Alton Illinois. There are regulator stations here and there. When I do a shutdown during a main replacement I notify system control and they can bump the pressure in that specific area to handle the load. Transmission lines and supply feeders are very high pressure and are generally large, steel mains, 6" to 48", but some are poly. Most of the grid main and header mains are poly. We have spent the last 15 years abandoning low pressure ( 5-8 lb) cast iron mains and medium pressure cast iron mains and replacing them with IP & SIP ( intermediate pressure-- 25-40 PSI) poly mains. A special IP gas riser ( service entrance to a building) with the cock wide open is so loud you can't hear the guy next to you yelling.

I'm rambling. Yeah, it's all about the pressure.
 
Typical grid mains are 2" or 4" and service lines are 1/2"-1", though larger buildings may have 4" service lines. Header mains are typical 4", 6", 8" or 12". That is plastic Intermediate pressure mains. The old low pressure cast iron mains are usually 4", 6" or 8" for grid main and header mains are 8", 12", 16", 24" and 30". In St. Louis anyway.
 
Many homes still have 3/8" service lines. My parent's have a medium size home with all gas appliances and their service is 3/8" plastic inserted through the old 1/2" copper service line. We don't install 3/8 anymore. In fact we don't generally install new 1/2" services, though we do replace 1/2" services with new 1/2" services. The work I have been doing for the last couple years and for the next couple years is what we call copper pigtails.. Back in the day the service lines were 3/4" steel. Then they started inserting 1/2" copper through the old steel lines ( which then became casings). We are removing copper services now and replacing them with plastic. In the 70s and 80s gas risers ( the header set that holds your gas meter) were made to accept 1/2" and 1" copper. So when they started using plastic, the riser would have a 12' piece of copper coming out of it and it would hook to the plastic service line with what we call an amfit. Basically a shark bite. There were plastic to copper mechanical couplings as well. Anyway, now we have to remove those copper risers and service line. So we dig a hole in the yard ( with a shovel, carefully saving the sod) over the service line where it's plastic, then dig up the riser. We squeeze the plastic service line down stopping the gas and cut it, then we cut the riser off the copper and shove a 1/4" braided steel cable through the copper until it comes out in the service line in the yard. There is a splitter welded on the end of the cable at the riser and we attach the other end of the cable to a puller ( block and tackle basically) on the boom of the mini excavator. The splitter has a chinese finger on the back side, so as I pull the old copper out of the yard hole it is simultaneously pulling a new plastic service line in. Then we insert the new plastic into a new riser and rebuild the meter set and replace the meter with new "Smart" Ultrasonic meters. As a result the service line is now 100% poly and Bassbob averages a 5 gallon bucket a day of 1/2" copper line, cut into 6" pieces as well as the old lock cocks which are red brass. The last 6 months I have been magically turning this copper and brass into about $800 worth of ammo every month. :)
 
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Belt Fed said:
You ain't lyin, you can't wash that smell off.
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No dude, it is very, VERY cold. Cold enough to cause frostbite. I know guys that lost fingers and hands messing with that crap. Trying to fill tanks. The stuff leaks onto you and you don't feel it at first. Then it's too late.

Another fun fact. NG is lighter than air. It rises. Propane is heavier than air. So if there is a propane leak it will hover close to the ground. If you see a fog hovering just above the ground, do NOT drive through it.

What is nasty smelling and hard to wash off is old gas laden cast iron.
 
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