Im beginning to think it can't be done

[Bloodknight]

I sold my Kimber "solo",which I used as a conceal carry firearm.After I had an issue with four persons of interest in the parking lot of a shopping center.Did not get serious,but almost.The kimber only holds 6+1 and I started to thnk about the limit of 7 total rounds.I purchased a hellcat.which came with 13 & 15 round magazines & a red dot.I cannot for the life of me find a holster that totally conceals the weapon.The 13&15 round magazines always stick out.Ive tried IWB,OWB,belly bands.In the winter no problem.Summer in Tucson its a problemI

 

[ddeuce22]

That extended grip from the mag can become a nuisance, especially in hot weather. I too have the same issue here in Texas in the summer with my P365 XL. The 15rd mag sticks out too much, and it rattles if not loaded in the magwell, so carrying it as a spare is not an option either.

What holsters have you tried?

 

[BrewIt]

I use a Crossbreed Reckoning system but I do carry it with an 11 round mag for that reason. My spare mag is a 15 round.

 

[TSiWRX]

More grip rotation typically allows the heel of the gun - including the base of the magazine - to press-in towards the body and aid in concealment.

That said, depending on the exact gun/holster/support gear/cover garment/unique end-user anatomic-features, this may or may not be achievable.

Overweight in warm climate

New to posting here. Most video's and pics of folks carrying are wearing long sleeves, jackets, multiple layers, and such showing how they conceal and with what. What are some options for holsters IWB or other for lightly overweight (in the belly) folks that live in places like Florida (HOT ALL...

www.thearmorylife.com

^ Although this thread is tailored to issues of concealment for bigger/heavier shooters, the principles discussed by PHLster are the same for anyone and everyone. I honestly believe that taking the time out to truly study his videos -which I'd cited in later replies in that thread - might really pay off.

With The Reckoning, what I can see is that it is lacking is a "wing/strut" to help kick the heel of the grip/magazine more towards the body. https://www.crossbreedholsters.com/the-reckoning-holster.html - it's evident in the picture with the model (slim body build) that the "appendix" placement of holster is actually contralateral to where it is usually worn for that clocking - i.e. that it is at the 11- to 12-o'clock for a right-handed shooter, instead of at the normal 12- to 1-o'clock - in order to help it achieve the level of concealment that it is pictured to offer.

^ Image taken from the Crossbreed website.

Here, you can see that even with such a flat midsection, the heel of the gun is *still* kicking out away from the body. This is simply because as the holster is constructed/designed. there is no provision made for grip (heel) rotation (one could even suggest that the belt-clip on the top of the slide is actually causing the gun to counter-rotate even more, thus accentuating the concealment issues that the grip presents).

I do not know if that holster offers industry-standard hardware spacing. If it does, adding a wing/strut (which is readily available via many holster makers' websites, and also even just Amazon) should be simple. If not -and you still wish to pursue this method in an attempt to make this holster work for you- I would recommend that you attempt to modify aftermarket hardware to fit the holster's provided hard-points (instead of the other way around).

The Glock G19-sized frame has become synonymous with concealed carry over the last decade or so, with its popularity being almost enmeshed with the rise of AWIB. If the G19 can be successfully concealed to the depths that many have, by physical measures of the gun itself -even with the extended magazine- there should be no logical reason, based on this fact alone, that the Hellcat cannot.

^ That said, again, concealment depends on a number of both objective and subjective considerations, not the least of which is the end-users' level of comfort with subjective assessments of "printing" (i.e. depth of concealment - and how that may affect both speed-to-presentation as well as in-fight [physical combatives/ECQC] access). Sometimes, it's absolutely about more than just the physical dimensions of the gun.

With your specific scenario above, @Bloodknight , I would look first to address the potential shortcomings of your selected holster.

-----

@ddeuce22 , with the magazine rattle, have you tried unloading and then carefully re-filling the problematic magazine? Usually, the rattle comes from -sometimes- "fixable" stacking issues of successive cartridges in the magazine. Try loading the magazine very deliberately, taking the time to insure the cartridges are seated against the back/spine of the magazine by forcefully tapping the spine of the magazine with the heel of your support hand ("whipping" it into that open palm, with your dominant hand securely holding the magazine by its basepad) after you load each round. This can sometimes help. You may even come to a point where you'll notice the mag to start rattling as soon as you pop in a new round after a certain number of cartridges have already been inserted: stripping that round off the top of the stack, reseating the resident rounds by vigorously tapping the spine and then re-inserting that incoming cartridge may do the trick.

This can be particularly frustrating if that noisy round happens to be "the +1 that's resident in the gun" - which is of-course the base of the slide pressing against the full-stack magazine you've (re)inserted.....

Occasionally, you'll run into a magazine that just won't shut up. It's possible that changing to an aftermarket spring or even spring/follower/base-pad combo may resolve the issue.

 

[BET7]

I use a Crossbreed Reckoning system but I do carry it with an 11 round mag for that reason. My spare mag is a 15 round.

Same here, Crossbreed IWB Reckoning with 11 rd mag on right side 4:00 position, and double mag pouch holding 2 - 13 round mags on left side. I hope I never have to use it/them.

 

[Bloodknight]

That extended grip from the mag can become a nuisance, especially in hot weather. I too have the same issue here in Texas in the summer with my P365 XL. The 15rd mag sticks out too much, and it rattles if not loaded in the magwell, so carrying it as a spare is not an option either.

What holsters have you tried?

Cost not being a problem,I didnt want to go overboard because I was not sure what works & what does not.Relentless (3) we the people,bravo,craft (crap).I hate to spend a lot unless its right.The differance in the 13 & 15 is minimal. The issue is compounded by the wasp red dot.The hellcat osp came with 13&15 magazines.Maybe I should get a 10 ?, The relentless is good without the red dot.but they dont make one with the red dot.Like everyone says.the heel always sticks out.

 

[Bloodknight]

OK, thanks to all for the info.I came across a site for Dara holsters.They have a "claw" that comes with their holsters (extra) that sounds like it holds the heel of the gun into your body.Im not a big fan of kydex holsters,but whatever works ! anyone know about this item ?

 

[SimonRL]

I carry a P365 with the XL grip module and a 12 round mag and use a Bravo Concealment IWB holster that does a great job of keeping the gun from printing. More often than not I pocket carry using an Alabama pocket holster. Obviously that would not work with a red dot. I just bought a CompTac Minotaur MTAC IWB holster for my M17, which I just couldn’t get not to print carrying it OWB. I am not svelte and have avoided IWB for the most part, but I was amazed that with a 17 rd mag and a DPP mounted the M17 literally disappeared and passed the wife’s discerning eye test. The right holster is always out there somewhere but the trick for me is finding it without buying 2 or 3 others first that don’t float my boat.

 

[Bloodknight]

I carry a P365 with the XL grip module and a 12 round mag and use a Bravo Concealment IWB holster that does a great job of keeping the gun from printing. More often than not I pocket carry using an Alabama pocket holster. Obviously that would not work with a red dot. I just bought a CompTac Minotaur MTAC IWB holster for my M17, which I just couldn’t get not to print carrying it OWB. I am not svelte and have avoided IWB for the most part, but I was amazed that with a 17 rd mag and a DPP mounted the M17 literally disappeared and passed the wife’s discerning eye test. The right holster is always out there somewhere but the trick for me is finding it without buying 2 or 3 others first that don’t float my boat.

Yes, it's out ther somewhere.wonder if there is anyone who custom fit holsters,like you would a suit.I was just thinking of John Wick Black shirts seem to help.I just recived a bravo holster which I will mess around with.seems to have a lot of options.A size bigger in the waist seems to help comfort wise.Not to get off subject,but I went from a 7 shot kimber to a 15+1 hellcat.In reality.On the street.No matter what,we are out gunned.The bad guys dont worry about conceal carry.I saw where an officer was shot with some sort of pistol with a 50 round drum magazine.I was approached by four guys.So we are at a disadvantage.At home its different.lots of selections. Thanks for your input

 

[Jfal]

Simon's recommendation caused me to go peak at Bravo's website, they have an IWB for a Hellcat with a dot in the picture. Can't comment personally, other than the optic is not an issue with the Bravo. The extended magazine? No idea. I carry with a 10-round flush mag in the pistol, the 15-round spare is in my pocket, to make the package manageable.

 

[Ranger715]

The current practice of gun makers providing their little carry guns with both a flush fit and extended magazine kinda bugs me. You buy the gun to be concealable, so it makes sense to carry it with the smaller mag. But then you feel like a fool, because you have a bigger mag available, but it diminishes the concealing purpose of the gun.

I know that 1) choice is generally good, and 2) it doesn't really matter because you'll probably never empty the magazine anyway. Nevertheless, I would rather they make one properly fitting magazine and provide three of them as a standard practice. That's just my neurotic view, which I offer because I know you're all very interested.

 

[TSiWRX]

OK, thanks to all for the info.I came across a site for Dara holsters.They have a "claw" that comes with their holsters (extra) that sounds like it holds the heel of the gun into your body.Im not a big fan of kydex holsters,but whatever works ! anyone know about this item ?

The holster itself doesn't necessarily have to be Kydex for a claw/wing-type leverage device to work. What's happening (and really, PHLster's videos go into much more detail, in a better way ) is the wing/claw cams/levers itself agains the belt, which works to rotate that grip heel towards the body. To-wit, various minimalist holsters still come with a wing, like the RCS VG2:

VanGuard 2 Advanced Kit | Raven Concealment Systems

The VanGuard 2 Advanced Kit is a capability upgrade to our VanGuard 2 IWB minimalist holster. Unlike traditional IWB holsters, the VG2 covers only the trigger guard of your weapon. This unique design eliminates the bulk of a standard holster. It does this while providing a level of safety and...

rcsgear.com

The wing/claw is less about holster material than where the fulcrum point of that lever happens to be. With The Reckoning's "top of slide" clip positioning, without that shell itself being curved in an asymmetric manner (again as PHLster shows in his videos), even with a wing/claw, it's fighting the inherent design parameters of the holster. As such it's likely that the grip still won't be able to rotate quite as much.

 

[Jfal]

The current practice of gun makers providing their little carry guns with both a flush fit and extended magazine kinda bugs me. You buy the gun to be concealable, so it makes sense to carry it with the smaller mag. But then you feel like a fool, because you have a bigger mag available, but it diminishes the concealing purpose of the gun.

I know that 1) choice is generally good, and 2) it doesn't really matter because you'll probably never empty the magazine anyway. Nevertheless, I would rather they make one properly fitting magazine and provide three of them as a standard practice. That's just my neurotic view, which I offer because I know you're all very interested.

Ranger,
Sig was worse than you suggested! My P365SAS came with a flush-fit 10-round mag and another 10-round mag with a pinkie extension. Had to buy the 15-round extended for $50 after the fact....So it only comes with 10-round mags.

 

[KI4WTF]

I use a Crossbreed Reckoning system but I do carry it with an 11 round mag for that reason. My spare mag is a 15 round.

same,same.... in other words I 2nd that!

 

[Pitdogg2]

Can you carry OWB?
On a whim I bought one of these for my 10mm 3.8" elite. It's very snug against the body and with just wearing my shirt untucked it works very well. The holster tightens by your belt snugness. When just trying the pistol in it without being on I was very hesitant because it felt so loose, put it on all hesitancy was gone.
It's cheap enough to try and like you I had bought enough holsters I didn't want to keep spending large dollars until I found one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/252930974193

 

[KI4WTF]

Can you carry OWB?
On a whim I bought one of these for my 10mm 3.8" elite. It's very snug against the body and with just wearing my shirt untucked it works very well. The holster tightens by your belt snugness. When just trying the pistol in it without being on I was very hesitant because it felt so loose, put it on all hesitancy was gone.
It's cheap enough to try and like you I had bought enough holsters I didn't want to keep spending large dollars until I found one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/252930974193

I run the Crossbreed Reckoning owb with speed clips. Great with cargo or even drawstring shorts. Somebody earlier said the only person who thinks you are printing is YOU! Get past that and you'll carry without thinking twice. (although we all think about it.... and watch our 6, and swivel and, and, and...... )

 

[ddeuce22]

More grip rotation typically allows the heel of the gun - including the base of the magazine - to press-in towards the body and aid in concealment.

That said, depending on the exact gun/holster/support gear/cover garment/unique end-user anatomic-features, this may or may not be achievable.

Overweight in warm climate

New to posting here. Most video's and pics of folks carrying are wearing long sleeves, jackets, multiple layers, and such showing how they conceal and with what. What are some options for holsters IWB or other for lightly overweight (in the belly) folks that live in places like Florida (HOT ALL...

www.thearmorylife.com

^ Although this thread is tailored to issues of concealment for bigger/heavier shooters, the principles discussed by PHLster are the same for anyone and everyone. I honestly believe that taking the time out to truly study his videos -which I'd cited in later replies in that thread - might really pay off.

With The Reckoning, what I can see is that it is lacking is a "wing/strut" to help kick the heel of the grip/magazine more towards the body. https://www.crossbreedholsters.com/the-reckoning-holster.html - it's evident in the picture with the model (slim body build) that the "appendix" placement of holster is actually contralateral to where it is usually worn for that clocking - i.e. that it is at the 11- to 12-o'clock for a right-handed shooter, instead of at the normal 12- to 1-o'clock - in order to help it achieve the level of concealment that it is pictured to offer.
View attachment 24810
^ Image taken from the Crossbreed website.

Here, you can see that even with such a flat midsection, the heel of the gun is *still* kicking out away from the body. This is simply because as the holster is constructed/designed. there is no provision made for grip (heel) rotation (one could even suggest that the belt-clip on the top of the slide is actually causing the gun to counter-rotate even more, thus accentuating the concealment issues that the grip presents).

I do not know if that holster offers industry-standard hardware spacing. If it does, adding a wing/strut (which is readily available via many holster makers' websites, and also even just Amazon) should be simple. If not -and you still wish to pursue this method in an attempt to make this holster work for you- I would recommend that you attempt to modify aftermarket hardware to fit the holster's provided hard-points (instead of the other way around).

View attachment 24809
The Glock G19-sized frame has become synonymous with concealed carry over the last decade or so, with its popularity being almost enmeshed with the rise of AWIB. If the G19 can be successfully concealed to the depths that many have, by physical measures of the gun itself -even with the extended magazine- there should be no logical reason, based on this fact alone, that the Hellcat cannot.

^ That said, again, concealment depends on a number of both objective and subjective considerations, not the least of which is the end-users' level of comfort with subjective assessments of "printing" (i.e. depth of concealment - and how that may affect both speed-to-presentation as well as in-fight [physical combatives/ECQC] access). Sometimes, it's absolutely about more than just the physical dimensions of the gun.

With your specific scenario above, @Bloodknight , I would look first to address the potential shortcomings of your selected holster.

-----

@ddeuce22 , with the magazine rattle, have you tried unloading and then carefully re-filling the problematic magazine? Usually, the rattle comes from -sometimes- "fixable" stacking issues of successive cartridges in the magazine. Try loading the magazine very deliberately, taking the time to insure the cartridges are seated against the back/spine of the magazine by forcefully tapping the spine of the magazine with the heel of your support hand ("whipping" it into that open palm, with your dominant hand securely holding the magazine by its basepad) after you load each round. This can sometimes help. You may even come to a point where you'll notice the mag to start rattling as soon as you pop in a new round after a certain number of cartridges have already been inserted: stripping that round off the top of the stack, reseating the resident rounds by vigorously tapping the spine and then re-inserting that incoming cartridge may do the trick.

This can be particularly frustrating if that noisy round happens to be "the +1 that's resident in the gun" - which is of-course the base of the slide pressing against the full-stack magazine you've (re)inserted.....

Occasionally, you'll run into a magazine that just won't shut up. It's possible that changing to an aftermarket spring or even spring/follower/base-pad combo may resolve the issue.

I've reached out directly to Sig about it and they said it's normal and just the way the magazine was designed. I did not look into any after market baseplate/spring kits though.

It's less of an issue now since I swapped my EDC to the XDM Elite Compact OSP .45 a few weeks ago. I swap between the 2 depending on weather and wardrobe, but I favor the XDM and the .45 ACP cartridge over the 9mm at this point.

 

[Bloodknight]

Simon's recommendation caused me to go peak at Bravo's website, they have an IWB for a Hellcat with a dot in the picture. Can't comment personally, other than the optic is not an issue with the Bravo. The extended magazine? No idea. I carry with a 10-round flush mag in the pistol, the 15-round spare is in my pocket, to make the package manageable.

Yes, I have the bravo holster your talking about.Also the OWB for walks in the desert.I believe the issue is the 13 & 15 round magazines.I see no reason a 10 wont fit in my osp. It just was nice to have the 15
.

 

[TSiWRX]

I've reached out directly to Sig about it and they said it's normal and just the way the magazine was designed. I did not look into any after market baseplate/spring kits though.

Ah - my bad....I should have noted that this is indeed "normal" behavior for double-stacked cartridges.

However, it's typically possible with a bit of extra TLC to get it so that at least while the magazine is undisturbed, there is no rattle.

 

[TSiWRX]

The current practice of gun makers providing their little carry guns with both a flush fit and extended magazine kinda bugs me. You buy the gun to be concealable, so it makes sense to carry it with the smaller mag. But then you feel like a fool, because you have a bigger mag available, but it diminishes the concealing purpose of the gun.

I know that 1) choice is generally good, and 2) it doesn't really matter because you'll probably never empty the magazine anyway. Nevertheless, I would rather they make one properly fitting magazine and provide three of them as a standard practice. That's just my neurotic view, which I offer because I know you're all very interested.

An alternative way to look at the longer/extended, increased-capacity magazines is that carrying it as the spare gives the end-user the ability to carry the gun with the shorter/"flush" magazines in-place -thus enhancing concealment- while allowing for increased capacity upon the reload (if the situation comes to that).

This is how I carry my XDm9 3.8 Compact - with a 19-round standard-capacity magazine carried as a spare - as well as how I stage my "car gun," a Glock G32, which I stage for concealed-carry with a "flush" 13-round magazine with a 15-round spare, but also have accessible in the vehicle two 22-round sticks for increased capacity.


-----


On a more general note.....

One thing that I have not noticed yet brought forth for discussion in this thread is that if the shooter sets up his/her concealment with the shorter/flush magazine, if they decide to then conceal-carry with the longer magazine, they should take the time and effort to properly vet their draw/presentation with the longer magazine.

There is always the possibility of the longer/extended magazine causing issues on garment clearing, the draw, and even presentation - issues which may not be present when using the shorter/"flush" magazine.