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Is Low Quality Factory Ammo Dangerous?

Talyn said:
BTW, I can't speak for Grizzly ammo but Buffalo Bore isn't low quality ammo.

Alot of 10mm is underpowered compared to the original loads and the factory 17 lb. spring in a G20 handles all that fine, but when you ramp up to heavy loads then you have to tune the recoil spring to the heavy loads.
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Not sure the spring weight in the G40, but mine handled BB hot loads fine. In fact me and some shooting buddies, could hardly notice much difference between the BB rounds and the normal 10mm range ammo. Granted with the longer barrel/slide, it adds a bit more weight than the G20.
 
I think a big part of the problem is the tight chamber on the Kimber.

Plus, after the early problems with 10mm in 1911-type pistols I'm convinced that the 1911 is "border-line" platform for the 10mm with regular loads, then things get squirrely when you bump up to full-bore 10mm loads.

I'll never get a 1911 chambered in 10mm for those reasons.

A semi-auto needs to have the vast majority of its weight in the slide, plus a good spring system to handle the 10mm properly, that's why striker-fired pistols are the way to go with the 10mm.

My .02
 
Talyn said:
I think a big part of the problem is the tight chamber on the Kimber.

Plus, after the early problems with 10mm in 1911-type pistols I'm convinced that the 1911 is "border-line" platform for the 10mm with regular loads, then things get squirrely when you bump up to full-bore 10mm loads.

I'll never get a 1911 chambered in 10mm for those reasons.

A semi-auto needs to have the vast majority of its weight in the slide, plus a good spring system to handle the 10mm properly, that's why striker-fired pistols are the way to go with the 10mm.

My .02
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🤔You know?☝️ I've heard that more than once from other sources as well!
 
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youngolddude said:
I consider .40 and up big bore "pistol" cartridges. Big bore rifles can be debated as to what constitutes big bore. I'm not a rifle cartridge guy, so 30.06 or .308 seem plenty big for big game in this country. If you enjoy your .375 magnum, .458 or whatever, you pursue your interests and I support you.
I shoot standard loads and personally have no interest in +P, +P+ or heavy for caliber rounds. Many do, I don't. I go the other direction, often shooting a lighter bullet, like a 180-200 gr. bullet in .45 acp or a 125 gr bullet in .38 special. I find these enjoyable to shoot. Defensive rounds can be another discussion, there are a lot to choose from from all spectrums. A well known writer often tells of needing to shoot lighter rounds due to long term damage to joints and age. Then he proceeds to describe heavy loads of one persuasion or another on his latest gun test. You know the joke about the doctor? A patient says, it hurts when I do this. The doctor says, don't do that.
I would suggest if a standard load doesn't have enough oomph, then move up the scale to find a caliber that does what you want within the standard parameters. That's just me. I want to ensure continued reliability with my purchase and do not want to take a chance with it getting loose or wearing out prematurely. If you want 800 hp in your daily driver, go for it. While I might enjoy driving the beast for a time, I want my vehicle to last 200K miles or more without a rebuild.
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Now Big Bore "pistol?" I'll accept that. But as I stay earlier. A pistol dosent come to mind when talking about "big bore cartridges" It probably has to do with the hunter in me and all the big game and dangerous game books I've read over the years.

Also like mentioned earlier. I didn't by the ammo for the powerful heavy loads in 10mm. I bought it because 10mm is extremely hard to find on Kodiak. What is available is usually what I grab of the shelf. I'd much rather grab a few boxes of 180gr S&B FMJ for shooting at paper and some good 180 grain SD HP loads from Hornady or Federal. Not 220 hard cast! I also agree with matching the gun to the application. I don't want the hottest heaviest load for any of my pistols. I'd much rather fire a bigger caliber pistol with a milder load than a smaller caliber pistol with a max pressure load. So please don't get me wrong. If I new the Grizzly Ammo was so hot? I never would have bought it in the first place. If I need a lot of power out of a pistol? I have a .44 mag for taking care of business. If that's not enough? I'll pick up a high power rifle or 12 gage. In my opinion the really big pistols like the .460S&W the .475 Lighnbaugh, and .500S&W are impractical for a pistol. I feel they are heavy clumsy oversized and somewhat overrated. Don't get me wrong. I agree that they are all power houses most definitely! I just don't have a use for them. Those Extra large frame revolvers are some peoples passion and they are really into them. They're just not for me. Like I said earlier. If I need that kind of power I have it and more in some of my high power rifles and in all of my Magnum Rifles. With much further range to boot!
 
Kodiak Cowboy said:
I'm not here to start an argument and I agree with everything you've said except on "Big Bore." In my opinion and from what I've read and heard. There is no such thing as a "big bore" pistol. If you went to Africa and told the PH you brought your 10mm, .44 mag, or even 500S&W "big bore'" for back up on your Cape Buffalo hunt. He'd laugh at you and say "keep that pea shooter in it's holster! That's why I'm here with my .450 Nitro double gun!" I'd really like to see the data that supports the .500 S&W delivering 4000 ftps of ME from a LG. Don't get me wrong. I'm not calling you a lier! However from what I know as long as I've been studying ballistics. I'd Have to see that data in a reloading manual to believe it. 👍 I have a "true" big bore in .416 that delivers over 5000 ftps in certain hand loads and right around 5000 in factory ammo. Now, look in a reloading manual and compare powder charges between any of the .416's and the S&W .500. If I'm wrong? Than I will definitely stand corrected!
I know exactly in my opinion what cartridges are and are not suitable for big and or dangerous game. In my opinion. The 10mm is not at all close to suitable! I bought the ammo simply because it was the only 10mm ammo I could find at the time. Certainty not as "big bore" ammo intended for big game. 😂 Calling it a big bore just makes me laugh! The 10mm dosent even hold 10grn. of power in a hot hand load! 😂😂 Now I have two and a half boxes of pure crap that can be purchased across the counter and is dangerous to fire in either model of my 10mm pistols, and quite possibly more!

I was more curious as to if you guys had the same opinion as I did as it being dangerous for factory ammo. A lot of you guys stated it was over pressured for the gun that the cases got stuck in. Witch also has a fully supported chamber. I mean come on now! Someone can accidentally get seriously injured by this stuff, and it's sold across the counter!!!

Thank you everyone that replied to this post. Much appreciated! 👍
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Lol, 500 S&W is a 65,000 psi cartridge. Here is the load data for my heavy hitters, it’s not for the faint of heart, I assure you 😉

9882EE91-52AA-43C9-B71D-A14218519DA6.png


That load is pushing 3084 ft lbs from a 10” barrel using a true magnum powder. It’d surpass 4000 ft lbs from a 22” lever gun with ease. You’re only talking +278 fps to get there with 12 extra inches of barrel.
 
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Philmo11 said:
Lol, 500 S&W is a 65,000 psi cartridge. Here is the load data for my heavy hitters, it’s not for the faint of heart, I assure you 😉

View attachment 27580

That load is pushing 3084 ft lbs from a 10” barrel using a true magnum powder. It’d surpass 4000 ft lbs from a 22” lever gun with ease. You’re only talking +278 fps to get there with 12 extra inches of barrel.
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Nice! Yeah I've shot one a few times. Definitely a powerful pistol cartridge, and impressive but also impractical, and it ain't got s**t on my .416 😉 What is the velocity at 50 or 100? Dose it carry the velocity out to any amount of distance?
 
Kodiak Cowboy said:
Nice! Yeah I've shot one a few times. Definitely a powerful pistol cartridge, and impressive but also impractical, and it ain't got s**t on my .416 😉 What is the velocity at 50 or 100? Dose it carry the velocity out to any amount of distance?
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Here’s a 460 S&W @ 4900 ft lbs


and a 500 S&W @ an average of 4200 ft lbs using factory ammo from federal.


I’m sure they’ll carry that a long way.

As for impractical, you never know when you got to stop a truck or a T-Rex 😂
 
Personally, I like the handguns more than the rifles. Don’t ask me why, I have no idea. Guess I handle the recoil better in the wrist than the shoulder 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Your sluggish so called "big bore"cartridge pushes a 500gr at a mere 1300 and a 350gr at a mediocre 1650. Sorry bud, ☹️ but as far as big bore's are concerned? It doesn't at all impress me!👎
IMG_20220522_235552941.jpg
IMG_20220522_235216740.jpg

Now this is bad boy boom'n BIG BORE! Pushing a 400gr at 2300 and some other 400 gr loads at over 2400! 350 at 2650!
IMG_20220522_235824626.jpg

🤔Just compare powder charges. That says it all!
 
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Philmo11 said:
Personally, I like the handguns more than the rifles. Don’t ask me why, I have no idea. Guess I handle the recoil better in the wrist than the shoulder 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Hey! If you like it and your comfortable with it? That's all that matters right? 👍 I personally have no use for it. I have a few friends that own the pistol and other than shooting it at paper they have never used it for anything else. Pretty expensive target ammo if you ask me? 😂
 
Kodiak Cowboy said:
Your sluggish so called "big bore"cartridge pushes a 500gr at a mere 1300 and a 350gr at a mediocre 1650. Sorry bud, ☹️ but as far as big bore's are concerned? It doesn't at all impress me!👎
View attachment 27582View attachment 27584
Now this is bad boy boom'n BIG BORE! Pushing a 400gr at 2300 and some other 400 gr loads at over 2400! 350 at 2650!
View attachment 27585
🤔Just compare powder charges. That says it all!
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I already posted my load data which is way more potent than your Hornady manual says. In addition I’ve posted the videos with the chronographed evidence. I don’t know how much more proof you need. You should probably go back and read it.

You should also compare apples to apples. If your 500 data is for an 8” and the rifle data you are comparing it to is from a 20”, you aren’t comparing the on equal ground, are you?

As for your charges, you are comparing powder weight of rifle powder vs magnum pistol. Not the same. Also not the same case volume. That also effects your pressure.
 
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It’s been fun bantering brother. I need a couple hours sleep before I have to get up for work. I always enjoy the 500 magnum conversation. I’ve done a lot with that cartridge. I keep 4 power levels of cartridges on hand just so the not so tough shooters can enjoy it too. They are guns no one needs but most can enjoy with the appropriate ammo for them. Cheers brother.
 
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