testtest

Kimber and Springfield 1911s…

Well, it’s down to 2 failures to eject in every 3 mags. Appears to be the last one in the mag every time now. Last round failed to eject in the first two mags. Two mags ran perfect. Two more mags failed to eject the last round. 50 more Blazer 115gr run through it.
Mine was always the second to last round FTF before I sent it back to Kimber. I put 50 more rounds of 180 S&B FMJ through it today with no problems at all. 150 total sence the factory repair. Cycling perfectly so far 👍
 
I called Kimber and arranged for another trip to fix what we know about. New rep working on it. I also asked if there were any issues he was privy to with the Rapides. He said he only knew of one 10mm Black Ice that he has seen come through support. None for the Dawn. That was promising. He also confirmed the new chamberings rolling out. A .45 would be nice.

I went ahead and called Springfield and had a chat with the support rep. Went through the entire chain of events. I told her it was getting better but was still FTE 2 of 3 mags after 250rds or so. She thought it was best to send it in.

I also told her to give the message to the gunsmiths that with both the Garrison 9 and the Loaded 45, smoothing out the underside of the slide where the disconnector rides (where they were engraved) made drastic improvements to the performance and reliability. The Loaded, it eliminated the failures. The Garrison, it reduced the failures by 90% just making that one change. She agreed that was something she wanted to pass along.
 
I called Kimber and arranged for another trip to fix what we know about. New rep working on it. I also asked if there were any issues he was privy to with the Rapides. He said he only knew of one 10mm Black Ice that he has seen come through support. None for the Dawn. That was promising. He also confirmed the new chamberings rolling out. A .45 would be nice.

I went ahead and called Springfield and had a chat with the support rep. Went through the entire chain of events. I told her it was getting better but was still FTE 2 of 3 mags after 250rds or so. She thought it was best to send it in.

I also told her to give the message to the gunsmiths that with both the Garrison 9 and the Loaded 45, smoothing out the underside of the slide where the disconnector rides (where they were engraved) made drastic improvements to the performance and reliability. The Loaded, it eliminated the failures. The Garrison, it reduced the failures by 90% just making that one change. She agreed that was something she wanted to pass along.
This is very encouraging all around! Good to hear that your discovery of smoothing out the underside of the slide to increase reliability and performance will be passed along. Excellent CS from SA!

The underside of the slide on my Ronin EMP 3 near the disconnector is becoming noticeably smoother on its own now that I have close to 1700 rounds through it. At the 1500 mark I decided to start cleaning it every 500 rounds, instead of every 250, but I'll still be keeping it pretty well-lubed.

With each cleaning, I'm paying close attention to the underside of the slide, but so far the gun is running very smoothly with no FTFs or FTEs.
 
Well, I think this might be the "new normal" for a while.
As I have stated in previous posts, I am in manufacturing, I print labels on a printing press. I have been in the printing field for over 20 years, manufacturing over 30. I have never seen things like this. Material shortages, material allotment, transportation issues, all these things have created the "perfect storm".

We were having a discussion the other day at work about a job I was getting ready to produce. Our art department guy was talking about how he was walking through the store and just happened to glance at a box of cereal on the shelf. He noticed that there was a lot of trash in the black print on the box. And it was glaringly obvious, even to the untrained eye. There are reasons for this.

In manufacturing, you have certain standards to maintain, one of the most important being quality control. In the "good old days" (think @ 2 years ago) quality control standards were such that a certain amount of waste was acceptable to maintain quality. There were times when issues arose that drove the waste up until the issue was corrected, and the product was sorted through to pick out what was "acceptable" to go to the customer while the rest was trashed. Manufacturing is driven by production and waste. Production is based on industry standards of setup time, run time, downtime, waste, quality. This is all based on material supply and costs, along with man hours, etc.

You already have stress trying to meet minimum production standards, especially with equipment problems, etc. Now we have not only supply chain issues, we now have to meet the same production standards with less material, less time, less waste and less manpower than ever. Never have I seen the printing industry like this. Sure, we had some delays of getting materials due to acts of nature, accidents, etc. Those would be maybe a day or two. Now? The industry is now being allotted paper. We cannot take on any new customers, or produce a new label for the same customer if it cuts into those allotments. Even the paper manufacturers cannot take on any new clients. And to make matters worse, a lot of companies, including my company, are having our allotments pushed out as much as 6 months away! They are doing this to the smaller companies more so than the larger ones.

So, with the firearms manufacturers, not only are they probably going through the same issues, their demand has increased exponentially due to this administration and the increased violence and cutting back of policing. More people are buying firearms than ever before. This is taxing an already volatile situation. Being in production, you are now stressed out trying to meet even more stringent production demands. You are pushed to produce more with less waste and less mistakes. This leads to more mistakes, more quality issues and more waste. Now the companies are in a position to where their quality standards are having to be modified as far as what is and isn't acceptable. "Minor" imperfections that should be filed down, re-bead blasted, etc. are being re-classified as "acceptable", to be addressed by customer service at a later date. Companies have to do this to make any money, as the prices have gone up exponentially on top of the supply shortages/delays.

I apologize for the long post. This is just what I am not only witnessing, but experiencing personally in my daily workday in the industry. Will things get back to "normal"? I hope so. But for now, we kind of have to have a little more patience and understanding with the products we purchase, not including food safety of course. Never in my 30 plus years in manufacturing have I seen it like this.
I also spent a lifetime in mfg. and I have to say we may produce less product but they will be to spec or they don't go out the door. Making inferior product not an option. All my life I saw companies that thought there was not enough time to do it right the first time but always enough time to fix the bad work adding extra cost including damage to reputation and employee morale drops when they know they are producing poor quality product.
My Emissary 9mm the most $$$$ i've ever paid for a pistol initially jammed bullets into the feed ramp among other problems back it went to warranty then it fed fine but sometimes would not ignite or extract and back it went again now it feeds and ignites but doesn't reliably extract the empty resulting in double feed and a wash on my Steel Challenge strings. The pistol is so accurate if only it would run! Back it goes again.
BTW when I returned it the 1st time I stopped at my LGS on the way home. They had a Kimber Night Patrol 9mm which I bought. It runs without a hiccup
 
I also spent a lifetime in mfg. and I have to say we may produce less product but they will be to spec or they don't go out the door. Making inferior product not an option. All my life I saw companies that thought there was not enough time to do it right the first time but always enough time to fix the bad work adding extra cost including damage to reputation and employee morale drops when they know they are producing poor quality product.
Completely agree with your sentiments. I find it untenable that some gun manufacturer's seem to have adopted the notion that they can turn gun buyers into beta testers of their products. I think that such a misguided attitude about QC with guns could have unintended or disastrous consequences.
 
I think it’s pretty bad to have to send a new gun back for repair, I have noticed on here that most are either Springfield or Kimber 1911’s. I would like to know why so many here lately? My shop has 2 Springfield’s in stock, Mil Spec and a Garrison, now after these threads I am very hesitant to get either one now. I do not want to have to send it back because of any issues. I guess I’ll just pass on them for now, sad situation.
 
I think it’s pretty bad to have to send a new gun back for repair, I have noticed on here that most are either Springfield or Kimber 1911’s. I would like to know why so many here lately? My shop has 2 Springfield’s in stock, Mil Spec and a Garrison, now after these threads I am very hesitant to get either one now. I do not want to have to send it back because of any issues. I guess I’ll just pass on them for now, sad situation.
Wondering whether or not quality increases the longer a particular model has been in production? Maybe there’s no rhyme or reason to it, especially if QC is inconsistent.🤷‍♂️
Is there a way to ascertain the date or the year of production, via the serial number?
 
I think it’s pretty bad to have to send a new gun back for repair, I have noticed on here that most are either Springfield or Kimber 1911’s. I would like to know why so many here lately? My shop has 2 Springfield’s in stock, Mil Spec and a Garrison, now after these threads I am very hesitant to get either one now. I do not want to have to send it back because of any issues. I guess I’ll just pass on them for now, sad situation.
I agree, it’s been rough. I have nearly $6k in these so far and another $2400 coming. There is another Garrison and a Rapide, both in 9mm.there is definitely a common theme and it’s not brand specific. Question is, what would the average person have done or perceived having gotten one of these? Ran off to the Glock forum and badmouthed the 1911 platform as unreliable?
 
Wondering whether or not quality increases the longer a particular model has been in production? Maybe there’s no rhyme or reason to it, especially if QC is inconsistent.🤷‍♂️
Is there a way to ascertain the date or the year of production, via the serial number?
The Stainless II and the Loaded have been around for some time. When I bought the 10mm Stainless II, it wasn’t listed on the Kimber site as an available caliber. Were they in production, suspended then production restarted? Possibly. It’s showing 10mm as an available caliber now.

I’ve purchased from multiple sources from multiple states, multiple calibers. It’s not like it’s one cartridge/model. It’s a pretty diverse sampling. I can’t imagine any of these are very old considering how scarce they have been the last couple years. I’ve never bought a used 1911 so they are all factory new. Now the Garrison is a new model and the Rapide is a new model.
 
The Stainless II and the Loaded have been around for some time. When I bought the 10mm Stainless II, it wasn’t listed on the Kimber site as an available caliber. Were they in production, suspended then production restarted? Possibly. It’s showing 10mm as an available caliber now.

I’ve purchased from multiple sources from multiple states, multiple calibers. It’s not like it’s one cartridge/model. It’s a pretty diverse sampling. I can’t imagine any of these are very old considering how scarce they have been the last couple years. I’ve never bought a used 1911 so they are all factory new. Now the Garrison is a new model and the Rapide is a new model.
Still, these two models are patterned after existing guns, same basic design, shouldn’t have issues with them like you would with a totally new gun design
 
Still, these two models are patterned after existing guns, same basic design, shouldn’t have issues with them like you would with a totally new gun design
I almost said that but bit my tongue. I do agree most of the issues are QC from what I can tell. There is a certain amount of break-in that has to be accounted for at the friction points. I think those are easily separated by looking at the gun and how it acts.

I don’t think it’s acceptable to force an end user to spend hundreds of $ on ammo to break something in that could be as simple as smoothing out the contact surface on the bottom of the slide. It’s an exposed surface that took less than 2 min to fix. We know from this thread how that impacted the reliability.

Likewise, I think bead blasted slide rails on the Kimbers cause the same issues. Unnecessary breakin that could have been avoided by covering the slide rails during the blasting.

I think those two alone are very simple manufacturing changes that won’t really impact the cost of manufacturing.
 
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A lot of folks on this forum have stated that they've had no issues at all with thier Kimber or Springfield 1911's and a lot of folks stated they have! I don't know what to think at this point? 🤔
I know what I think. That just like the majority of non custom 1911s in history, these low-mid level 1911s very often need some work to make them reliable and accurate. It used to be that buying a $700 1911 and expecting it to run perfectly was like pissing up a rope. I think now the dollar amount is just higher.

Bottom line, if you want a 1911 that’s going to REALLY perform flawlessly you’re looking at the wrong ones.
 
I know what I think. That just like the majority of non custom 1911s in history, these low-mid level 1911s very often need some work to make them reliable and accurate. It used to be that buying a $700 1911 and expecting it to run perfectly was like pissing up a rope. I think now the dollar amount is just higher.

Bottom line, if you want a 1911 that’s going to REALLY perform flawlessly you’re looking at the wrong ones.
I buy ANY gun, I expect it to run reliable. There’s no caveat to that. I have had many $600-$800 1911s that have never had issues, some that cleared up in the first 5 mags. What we are seeing here is neither typical or acceptable.
 
I buy ANY gun, I expect it to run reliable. There’s no caveat to that. I have had many $600-$800 1911s that have never had issues, some that cleared up in the first 5 mags. What we are seeing here is neither typical or acceptable.
Your expectations are too high then and you’ve gotten lucky. Could be your definition of reliable is different than mine too. If your gun don’t run through 500 rounds without a FTF or FTE it’s not reliable and needs something. Sometimes even if it does run without failures it needs something.
 
Your expectations are too high then and you’ve gotten lucky. Could be your definition of reliable is different than mine too. If your gun don’t run through 500 rounds without a FTF or FTE it’s not reliable and needs something. Sometimes even if it does run without failures it needs something.
No, my expectations aren’t too high. You can substitute blued for parkerized, bead blast for polished and even expect play and grittiness in the action but if it doesn’t run, you successfully created a $900 chunk of scrap metal. All the perceived “tolerances” in the world amount to diddly squat if it doesn’t.
 
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