Long overdue
- Thread starter C. Sumpin
- Start date
Old_Me
SAINT
i suppose this means too, that the animals must be serenaded with Beethoven, and Brahms, when they are led to slaughter?
christ, they ARE the food chain. they ARE getting fed and housed, for what else...??
to be on our dinner tables....
just like loaded magazine limits, will there be a limit as to how many chopped up pieces can be kept in the home freezers..???
BS laws from a BS state.
buncha pansies.....
the whole damned state needs to fall into the Pacific Ocean, and i mean ASAP.....c'mon "the big one"......
christ, they ARE the food chain. they ARE getting fed and housed, for what else...??
to be on our dinner tables....
just like loaded magazine limits, will there be a limit as to how many chopped up pieces can be kept in the home freezers..???
BS laws from a BS state.
buncha pansies.....
the whole damned state needs to fall into the Pacific Ocean, and i mean ASAP.....c'mon "the big one"......
C. Sumpin
Custom
You need to visit a confinement operation, even a beast of burden deserves not to be tortured.
This is one rare instance I'm with California.
Old_Me
SAINT
thru my job/career as a trucker, i have been to a "few" farms, that are breeder/feeder(??) places. where the end building was the slaughter house.
they are there for a purpose. to be on our dinner tables ASAP.
i have been to chicken farms, and poultry outlets, and seen how they are stacked in the crates....
they are there for the purpose. to be on our dinner tables.
have you seen they way slaughterhouse animals are transported to thier ending fate..??
what's next, a 53' foot trailer to transport only one slaughterhouse victim at a time...??
you wanna pay for that sliced up piece of meat when that happens..????
cuz i can assure you that, you will have to mortgage your house when you do,
Bassbob
Emissary
It's one of the reasons I very rarely eat meat anymore. My old man was a butcher his whole life. I've seen trailers rolling down the road so crammed full of turkeys that they were pinned to the sides and couldn't move.
Understand, I have no desire to tell anyone else what to do or how to farm or raise livestock, but I don't want to be any part of that shite.
C. Sumpin
Custom
Not so concerned about "their ending fate"; it's the manner of how they are raised from birth to ending fate.
I'm sure we all want the cheapest GMO/hormoned/drugged/poisoned piece of protein we can find..............
Classified
Professional
Kind of like airlines and waiting rooms, and I cant think of a person would like to live in them.
I believe that the living conditions we keep and slaughter our food correlates with our health. The hormones excreted/created in such environments end up in us just as pesticides.
Its not about being a pansy its about thinking of the consequences of corporate greed mascarading as capitalism.
Bottom line, if you cannot afford to care for another being as you would be cared for you should not habe them under your leadership.
Recusant
Hellcat
There's a Tyson processing plant nearby and I see truckloads of either chickens or turkeys packed in like you said. I understand that they have a rule when truck backs into the dock: Kill the dead ones first!
U
USS Callister
Guest
There's a vid that has made the rounds on the 'net of male chicken hatchlings being fed by the hundreds into a machine that grinds them up since male chicks are unwanted in the chicken biz, apparently. (I didn't include a link here 'cause I'm not sure it would be in accordance with forum rules.) What disturbs me about it is that it's a terrible waste of food--somebody should be able to raise those chickens so they end up on a dinner table instead of into dog food or whatever.
I understand the economics of cramming as many animals into a small space to make a profit, but it occurs to me that if animals are healthier because they have more space, wouldn't that be better for consumers? There's also the consideration that diseases spread like wildfire in confined, overpopulated areas--having healthier animals might help stave off some of the diseases.
I understand the economics of cramming as many animals into a small space to make a profit, but it occurs to me that if animals are healthier because they have more space, wouldn't that be better for consumers? There's also the consideration that diseases spread like wildfire in confined, overpopulated areas--having healthier animals might help stave off some of the diseases.
Recusant
Hellcat
When I taught seniors Government, one of the units I did was on public interest groups. On the internet I found a group that was dedicated to educating the public about the plight of male chicks. One of their members had infiltrated a plant that hatched chicks and had made a video of what you described. Needless to say, the kids were shocked and angry, but gained an appreciation of the mission of public interest groups.
Old_Me
SAINT
that is so that the meat does not toughen up. veal is supposed to be tender meat.
Old_Me
SAINT
maybe Dr. Fauci will demand the animals wear masks now too..???
C. Sumpin
Custom
Well it's clear your major concern is your platter at the next meal and no matter the misery suffered by it's getting there..........I'm having visions now of a 380 pound driver heaving and huffing his weight into the cab for the race to the next truck stop for a bloody rare chunk of protein....................
Old_Me
SAINT
actually, i am about 10 pounds over my ideal weight.(182 currently, over the ideal of 175 for my size) i really do not eat much in the way of red meats, but chicken, fish, turkey mostly. the rare occasion i have a burger at home, not at a fast food place, and on "some sundays, i make the breakfast, one week, it can be ham, or bacon, or sausages, or pancakes, or biscuits and gravy, so again, not a daily thing
i will not eat vegan, i will not eat rabbit food (salads everyday), but will have a salad on occasion, just not daily.
i am a meat eater, and proud of it.
so now, i suppose that you'd want the fisheries where some freshwater fish are raised, be able to have a tank big enough for a whale for ONE fish to grow to maturity...??
i suppose you'd want the oceans to have square miles of open space a ONE fish to swim in..???
it just ain't gonna happen at the farms either. there may not be enough space for one, then the cost of raising a "few" pigs just to roam free, over more pigs in one contained area. just isn't profitable for the small farmer
i suppose too, that you'd want your sweet corn, grown in a field all by it self, only one stalk, so the wind can freely pass thru it and make it sway in that breeze?
i look at it this way, i want MY FOOD. when I want it.
if the livestock are crammed into a small area, so be it, they ARE the food chain, and they ARE raised to be slaughtered for us to enjoy, and enjoy it i will.
ChanceMcCall
Custom
This is a complex subject. There is no doubt that meat raised under better conditions tastes better and is likely healthier to consume. There is also no doubt that the majority of the world would no longer be able to afford meat as a regular part of their diet if all of these rules became a national and regular part of meat production.
How many people in America, let alone other countries, are going to be able to afford $20.00 per pound bacon on the table every day? What about $45.00 per pound for strip steak? Whole chickens at $25.00?
In Europe, salmon is a mainstay. The result has been salmon farming that produces a very unhealthy and horrible tasting farm raised product that is destroying the wild salmon in the North Atlantic. It is all about what people can, or are willing, to pay to satisfy their cravings for meat.
If less people eat meat, the price will go down for a short time but then we will lose producers and prices will go back up while the "progressives" will find more fertile ground to lobby about cow farts as a greenhouse gas and the socialist view that if all of us ate beans and we gave up the inefficient use of resources to produce meat, there would be enough food for everyone.
People eat what they can afford for the most part. My chicken (and eggs) is almost always free range and antibiotic free but it costs 3-4 times what it would cost at a supermarket for the usual offerings. My beef is hormone free and is fed a specific diet. While most people contributing here can likely afford this at least some of the time if not regularly, much of the world can never afford these prices so meat comes off the plate.
Careful and logic driven consideration of this topic is complicated.
How many people in America, let alone other countries, are going to be able to afford $20.00 per pound bacon on the table every day? What about $45.00 per pound for strip steak? Whole chickens at $25.00?
In Europe, salmon is a mainstay. The result has been salmon farming that produces a very unhealthy and horrible tasting farm raised product that is destroying the wild salmon in the North Atlantic. It is all about what people can, or are willing, to pay to satisfy their cravings for meat.
If less people eat meat, the price will go down for a short time but then we will lose producers and prices will go back up while the "progressives" will find more fertile ground to lobby about cow farts as a greenhouse gas and the socialist view that if all of us ate beans and we gave up the inefficient use of resources to produce meat, there would be enough food for everyone.
People eat what they can afford for the most part. My chicken (and eggs) is almost always free range and antibiotic free but it costs 3-4 times what it would cost at a supermarket for the usual offerings. My beef is hormone free and is fed a specific diet. While most people contributing here can likely afford this at least some of the time if not regularly, much of the world can never afford these prices so meat comes off the plate.
Careful and logic driven consideration of this topic is complicated.
C. Sumpin
Custom
Then I am a tad more overweight (for my size) than you are.
I'm not total vegan, as I consume eggs, milk, and seafood.
And I can relate to "wanting my food when I want it"; so we must be good to go with our differences that I believe humane wholesome non confinement production is doable and profitable to the producers with a minimal increase in price to the consumer, which I'm willing to bear for my good health. It appears I'm on moderation with this topic so, let's loosen our belts and dig in.
ChanceMcCall
Custom
On the same law:
>>The National Pork Producers Council has challenged California’s right to impose standards on businesses in other states, but so far those efforts have failed.<<
This has major consequences. All of us reading and posting here should be well aware of California's view of firearms ownership and use. The state accomplishes that because they have enough voters who hate guns. What is to stop California from passing laws to regulate gun manufacturers (and others) in other states, as they have done over the production of pork?
>>The National Pork Producers Council has challenged California’s right to impose standards on businesses in other states, but so far those efforts have failed.<<
This has major consequences. All of us reading and posting here should be well aware of California's view of firearms ownership and use. The state accomplishes that because they have enough voters who hate guns. What is to stop California from passing laws to regulate gun manufacturers (and others) in other states, as they have done over the production of pork?
Good topic C.S.
Is a lot to consider on subject of being ethical and humane. Where does it start and end? Vaguely speaking, sometimes different views are all good ones from different vantage points, sometimes not. Much is rarely or barely discussed thoroughly and sometimes taken for granted by many people.
Basically, much information is condensed for time's sake and more or less hidden from plain sight sometimes? The effects? A simple example: A typical teen age kid wants a burger from mickey D's but has no idea of what it is or where it actually came from start to finish may be a simple clue? Is it really a hamburger meat, where does it come from? A factory or grocery store is all? Is it even meat of some sort or vegetable based protein? From a cow, oh my? It isn't just the pigs from what I see.
Sometimes, formally educated and sometimes hands on experience people can clash or come together? Formal book learning and hands on training /education are sometimes two different birds or in this case, hogs? From what have seen in many instances because of that is some consider a local thought, idea, rule or law to be appropriate or ideal for everywhere in the country because it may be for a particular place or instance. A balance or combination of those is typically considered to be ideal, but in many cases it's not doable or feasible for one reason or another.
Unfortunately, not much is all that simple or completely idealistic in this world. One person or thing can easily effect another person or thing especially now with the internet. Example: Various books and videos can take someone all over the globe mentally, even the whole universe, but to physically experience, feel the scene, the people, conditions, surroundings and weather, to actually experience all the actual conditions in a brief moment in time? Another more down to earth. A person may learn to speak another language from textbooks or audiobooks, but to experience the dialects, differences locally? Likely not. Firearms and proper training can fall into this rational or lack of it too? Same with the ethical treatment of any animal or hogs. Talking hogs? Does Arnold of TV's Green Acres fame come to mind? - Yes, slight sarcasm.
Results? Bias? Paybacks? Effects? Thoughts? Am not seeing the views all too clearly too many times and likely neither are many others either even in leadership positions? Is it because of city life verses country life on what's educational, ethical or not? Yet, some of these sometimes narrow minded thoughts are coming from people who are in leadership positions or their advisors comprehension or interpretations can be a bit scary at times? Good or not? One certain place or scenario effecting all others is completely right for another or all? Some things may be appropriate at a local level while not at a more wide spread level. Am also thinking some may forget their local comitments while thinking of their possible higher aspirations later on? What's lacking? Indifference? Reading is fundamental or so have heard, is actual comprehension too or is it optional? Can't see it so it doesn't exist or when a person actually does see the same thing it suddenly does? Ying, Yang reaping what's sown and a result of a "sort of" education and media? It isn't just the ethics of raising a type of pork or is it?