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My bloodline warriors

So I want to say I am unfortunate to have never met the two grandfathers (one is a great-grandfather) I am going to talk about but I want to also delve into why I'm bringing them up.

For the longest time I've thought poorly about my great-grandpa, Amon Bieber. He fought, and killed, in the Great War. Yes, the first world war. As my dad tells it, Amon was a drunk, mean, sonuvabitch who couldn't hold a job and drank more than there was time in the day for. Given my very little understanding of the actual day-to-day life that these men went through, it's understandable. Horrible stories of rats eating the dead men who couldn't be buried or sent home, trench foot, poison gas, and perhaps the worst, close, personal, combat with violent, brutal and sometimes hand made weapons.
One day, years after the war, Amon decides it's best to blow his brains out with a shotgun.
His son, my grandfather, comes home and sees this. Decades later, Harlan, my grandfather, is drafted into the war and sent to Korea. He is an engineer in the Army.

Amon, I recently found out, came home with more than PTSD. Apparently he had his bayonet, a helmet, a rifle, some grape plants from France where I believe he fought (still growing to this day!) and some hand grenades. I'm not sure what Grandpa Harlan came home with or even did in the war.

Why am I bringing this up? "What's your point, dude?" I listened to a book, The Rifle, by Andrew Biggio, and he and I have similar desires to understand what it is the men in our families went through in war. I'm thinking about trying to find an M1 and doing what Andrew Biggio did but for Korean War Veterans. Unfortunately, they are the Forgotten Warriors but their stories are worth knowing. They deserve to be heard. If anyone knows where I can get military records please, let me know. Grandpa Harlan never spoke about Korea to my dad and I really want to have some connection with him.

If you aren't familiar with what I mean by "doing what Andrew Biggio did" then buy the book. Maybe you'll get some desires of your own.
 
Blood or not all that service deserve our undying respect.

In my lines, on Mom's side I had a relative who fought in the mid-1700's French & Indian War as well as being an officer in the Revolutionary War. After that relatives on her side served in the Civil War, WW2 and Korea.

On Dad's side (his family came over the pond in the late 1800's) Grandpa in WW1, and Father & Uncle in WW2.
But on Dads' mom side they were here alot longer but there's no known historical record on her line prior to her marrying Grandpa.
 
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My grandfather was in the trenches in WWI for the British. He was wounded twice and gassed, and finished out the war. He sure stood tall for a 5'1" man...

He never told my dad a whole lot, and dad told me what he could, I have since done a lot of reading. It was one he'll of a nasty place and time.
 
There was a Korean War museum in Springfield, Illinois full of books and memorabilia as well as a monument. It was started by Carl Greenwood (local) with some help by Pate Phillip (former President of the Illinois Senate) both US Marines during Korea. Carl was the author of Once Upon a Lifetime a book that recounted his war experiences. It is now gone and everything was sent to the Truman Presidential Museum in Independence, Mo.

One of my uncles served in Korea (also a Marine) and he was always a little bitter that his older brothers serving in WWII got a lot of recognition and the Korean vets went largely unrecognized. That bitterness subsided somewhat as those of us older cousins came back from Viet Nam and far from being ignored were castigated and harassed. We had longer conversation after one of my younger cousins was killed in Desert Storm and the family gathered for his funeral. The last of my younger cousins just retired after returning from Afghanistan.

The Korean War was long considered "the forgotten war" because it came so soon after WWII and the public was sick of discussing war.
 
I agree Korea, and its soldiers, except during the fifties when it was on, is a forgotten event.

Generally, I can say that many/most (from any war) simply do not have detailed discussions on the topic, except with other veterans and some, with no one. You are correct to make no judgements about any of them as to their life/reputation; each veteran has their own way of dealing with what they did and witnessed.

When I returned from Nam I closed it out, got on with life (as most folks expected), never spoke of it. Things appeared normal on the outside......for a time.....but things were not normal on the inside. And, I was pretty good at hiding/camouflaging it. I went to college after the "conflict" and just before graduation got married and lived in the upstairs apartment of my wife's parents house. One night a nightmare struck; I jumped out of bed in my sleep and ran through the bedroom wall as I woke up. Of course all hell broke loose with my (now ex) and her parents, all the lights in the house came on, they ran upstairs, and, they thought I was crazy as I smiled and said "had some little brown folks chasing me". I had failed to mention to my ex that I had been in the military, much less to VN. Eighteen years later, while at my desk in the living room, heard a young male voice from my daughters bedroom saying "the only war America ever lost". I called, she came out and I asked "Who was that"? She replied she had taken her recorder to class, taped the young history professor, was playing it back while doing her lessons. "I was nearby" I started, then told her enough that she would know we had not "lost" the war, only screwed it up, quit, and walked away. When I finished her eyes were large and with water in them, her lips trembled as she whispered "Dad, you mean......you mean.....you are a VN Vet"? She was eighteen and never knew. Shows you how much (little) vets talk about their experience. If I were not anonymous and online I would not be telling it now.

So Mr. Woodsman, don't think poorly of your Grandpappy's or any vet. Whether they are mean, drunkard, homeless (last I checked few years ago, there were more Homeless VN vets than died in the conflict) cuz they all have different ways to process their experience. For a few years there I processed mine with wine & weed. Somehow I was never homeless (close), in prison, killed or committed suicide and that surprises me. Specially prison, never thought I'd live this long and never go to prison. I'm squeaky clean; one of the fortunate ones. And I'll tell you this; all of them that served in VN and any other war were better men than I. I do not understand it yet at the same time I'm grateful for it: The good ones went KIA, WIA, POW and this bastard lives on in the good life. Survivors guilt is a constant companion.

Sorry guys. Seems like I got started and can't shut if off. One souvenir I returned with and have to this day is a sick sense of humor. The Mods here have dealt with it and delete it when it shows. You could cry or you could laugh at the horrors of war; I never made a choice but always laughed at it. My ex (nor anyone else) ever understood when watching Championship Bull Riding that I thought it was hilarious when a rider caught a face butt, or quivered in the dust when knocked out.

Now Mr. Woodsman, you've piqued my interest, guess I'll have to get the book.
Perhaps you could try the military records section for medals, notes, or after action reports of the units your
Great and Grand Daddy were in. Check Army records. But as of now, you may not have much luck; I recently requested my medals/ribbons replacements (threw them/gave them away & lost them) and their reply was, sorry, reduced staff, WUHAN192021, no help.

I hope you can fulfill that longing of a real connection with your family members.
 
I agree Korea, and its soldiers, except during the fifties when it was on, is a forgotten event.

Generally, I can say that many/most (from any war) simply do not have detailed discussions on the topic, except with other veterans and some, with no one. You are correct to make no judgements about any of them as to their life/reputation; each veteran has their own way of dealing with what they did and witnessed.

When I returned from Nam I closed it out, got on with life (as most folks expected), never spoke of it. Things appeared normal on the outside......for a time.....but things were not normal on the inside. And, I was pretty good at hiding/camouflaging it. I went to college after the "conflict" and just before graduation got married and lived in the upstairs apartment of my wife's parents house. One night a nightmare struck; I jumped out of bed in my sleep and ran through the bedroom wall as I woke up. Of course all hell broke loose with my (now ex) and her parents, all the lights in the house came on, they ran upstairs, and, they thought I was crazy as I smiled and said "had some little brown folks chasing me". I had failed to mention to my ex that I had been in the military, much less to VN. Eighteen years later, while at my desk in the living room, heard a young male voice from my daughters bedroom saying "the only war America ever lost". I called, she came out and I asked "Who was that"? She replied she had taken her recorder to class, taped the young history professor, was playing it back while doing her lessons. "I was nearby" I started, then told her enough that she would know we had not "lost" the war, only screwed it up, quit, and walked away. When I finished her eyes were large and with water in them, her lips trembled as she whispered "Dad, you mean......you mean.....you are a VN Vet"? She was eighteen and never knew. Shows you how much (little) vets talk about their experience. If I were not anonymous and online I would not be telling it now.

So Mr. Woodsman, don't think poorly of your Grandpappy's or any vet. Whether they are mean, drunkard, homeless (last I checked few years ago, there were more Homeless VN vets than died in the conflict) cuz they all have different ways to process their experience. For a few years there I processed mine with wine & weed. Somehow I was never homeless (close), in prison, killed or committed suicide and that surprises me. Specially prison, never thought I'd live this long and never go to prison. I'm squeaky clean; one of the fortunate ones. And I'll tell you this; all of them that served in VN and any other war were better men than I. I do not understand it yet at the same time I'm grateful for it: The good ones went KIA, WIA, POW and this bastard lives on in the good life. Survivors guilt is a constant companion.

Sorry guys. Seems like I got started and can't shut if off. One souvenir I returned with and have to this day is a sick sense of humor. The Mods here have dealt with it and delete it when it shows. You could cry or you could laugh at the horrors of war; I never made a choice but always laughed at it. My ex (nor anyone else) ever understood when watching Championship Bull Riding that I thought it was hilarious when a rider caught a face butt, or quivered in the dust when knocked out.

Now Mr. Woodsman, you've piqued my interest, guess I'll have to get the book.
Perhaps you could try the military records section for medals, notes, or after action reports of the units your
Great and Grand Daddy were in. Check Army records. But as of now, you may not have much luck; I recently requested my medals/ribbons replacements (threw them/gave them away & lost them) and their reply was, sorry, reduced staff, WUHAN192021, no help.

I hope you can fulfill that longing of a real connection with your family members.

First of gentlemen, from one veteran to another: Welcome home. Whether you've heard it before or not, Welcome home.

Mr. Sumpin don't you ever apologize for getting **** off your chest. While civilians will never understand what it is veterans (and not all) have gone through you've still got your brothers in arms to lean on, younger or older brothers.

Please don't mistake what I said about my great grandfather, Amon, for hatred or disgust or anything of the like. On the contrary, I just want to understand him all the more. What I said about him is all I was told and certainly no where near the entire picture. I was also young (around 13) when my dad told me about Amon. I've always wanted to meet both of those men.
 
I agree Korea, and its soldiers, except during the fifties when it was on, is a forgotten event.

Generally, I can say that many/most (from any war) simply do not have detailed discussions on the topic, except with other veterans and some, with no one. You are correct to make no judgements about any of them as to their life/reputation; each veteran has their own way of dealing with what they did and witnessed.

When I returned from Nam I closed it out, got on with life (as most folks expected), never spoke of it. Things appeared normal on the outside......for a time.....but things were not normal on the inside. And, I was pretty good at hiding/camouflaging it. I went to college after the "conflict" and just before graduation got married and lived in the upstairs apartment of my wife's parents house. One night a nightmare struck; I jumped out of bed in my sleep and ran through the bedroom wall as I woke up. Of course all hell broke loose with my (now ex) and her parents, all the lights in the house came on, they ran upstairs, and, they thought I was crazy as I smiled and said "had some little brown folks chasing me". I had failed to mention to my ex that I had been in the military, much less to VN. Eighteen years later, while at my desk in the living room, heard a young male voice from my daughters bedroom saying "the only war America ever lost". I called, she came out and I asked "Who was that"? She replied she had taken her recorder to class, taped the young history professor, was playing it back while doing her lessons. "I was nearby" I started, then told her enough that she would know we had not "lost" the war, only screwed it up, quit, and walked away. When I finished her eyes were large and with water in them, her lips trembled as she whispered "Dad, you mean......you mean.....you are a VN Vet"? She was eighteen and never knew. Shows you how much (little) vets talk about their experience. If I were not anonymous and online I would not be telling it now.
Thank you sir. Your service is appreciated.
 
All I can tell you is my great-grandfather (mother's side also a Norris) and Chuck Norris's grandfather are brothers. The last name was changed from Norriz to Norris after becoming US citizens. My grandmother (dad's side) had 4 brothers in WW2 and a nephew in Korea, but no knowledge of any earlier than WW2. With me grandmother (dad's side) being 1/4 American Indian (not 100% sure which) was here for every conflict since the white mans arrival. Just imagine a karate indian :unsure: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: ? Not the indians from F Troop :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
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