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Bills sent to Governor Wolf on his emergency 2A powers.

local21news.com

Wolf to veto bills on carrying, selling guns amid disasters

Gov. Tom Wolf's office says he will veto legislation heading that would repeal long-standing laws intended to control the carrying of guns and prevent officials from shutting down firearms sales during disaster emergencies declared by a governor. The bills are the latest to pass the Republican...
local21news.com local21news.com
 
Lock n' Load said:
Bills sent to Governor Wolf on his emergency 2A powers.

local21news.com

Wolf to veto bills on carrying, selling guns amid disasters

Gov. Tom Wolf's office says he will veto legislation heading that would repeal long-standing laws intended to control the carrying of guns and prevent officials from shutting down firearms sales during disaster emergencies declared by a governor. The bills are the latest to pass the Republican...
local21news.com local21news.com
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I just got a GOA "Take Action" Alert on this and sent my letter to the Governor. As I live in Pa., this action was already taken in the early days of the Pandemic by "our" Governor, when the legislators gave him emergency powers to deal with the Covid19 Virus (although they didn't intend for him to take this particular action against Gun stores and carry permits. among other actions). At first he shutter non essential businesses (including Gun stores), and since local government and sheriff offices were closed, one could not apply or renew their carry permits. The majority in the Pa. Legislators is Republican. As the article mentions, they been trying to claw back his emergency powers going so far as to take him in court. He refuses to sign these passed bills and the Legislators don't have enough votes to override his vetoes. They won in a lower court (ruling was essentially, he didn't have the constitutional right to continue to enact these continued emergency edicts), but the the Pa. State Supreme court (majority Democrats), reversed this decision and his authority to enact emergency powers remains. He'll probably not sign these current bills either (at least as my thinking goes), and I doubt the votes exist to override his veto once again. The good news is that there was a public outcry along with legal action taken by 2A advocates (Like Pa. 2A Attorney Joshua Prince), when the Governor first attempted this action, and this along with President Trump declaring the Firearms industry as essential, caused him to relax these restrictions. The local governments also extended permit expiration dates by several months. Currently, the Governor still has the power to do this again. These Bills basically declare that Gun stores and suppliers are essential and that if Sheriff offices are closed people would still be able carry concealed basically making Pa. and temporary constitutional carry State. At least this is what I understand this remedy to the previous actions he took to be.
 
BET7 said:
I just got a GOA "Take Action" Alert on this and sent my letter to the Governor. As I live in Pa., this action was already taken in the early days of the Pandemic by "our" Governor, when the legislators gave him emergency powers to deal with the Covid19 Virus (although they didn't intend for him to take this particular action against Gun stores and carry permits. among other actions). At first he shutter non essential businesses (including Gun stores), and since local government and sheriff offices were closed, one could not apply or renew their carry permits. The majority in the Pa. Legislators is Republican. As the article mentions, they been trying to claw back his emergency powers going so far as to take him in court. He refuses to sign these passed bills and the Legislators don't have enough votes to override his vetoes. They won in a lower court (ruling was essentially, he didn't have the constitutional right to continue to enact these continued emergency edicts), but the the Pa. State Supreme court (majority Democrats), reversed this decision and his authority to enact emergency powers remains. He'll probably not sign these current bills either (at least as my thinking goes), and I doubt the votes exist to override his veto once again. The good news is that there was a public outcry along with legal action taken by 2A advocates (Like Pa. 2A Attorney Joshua Prince), when the Governor first attempted this action, and this along with President Trump declaring the Firearms industry as essential, caused him to relax these restrictions. The local governments also extended permit expiration dates by several months. Currently, the Governor still has the power to do this again. These Bills basically declare that Gun stores and suppliers are essential and that if Sheriff offices are closed people would still be able carry concealed basically making Pa. and temporary constitutional carry State. At least this is what I understand this remedy to the previous actions he took to be.
Click to expand...


We can only hope there's enough votes in the PA Senate to override his veto.
 
My read on these (and I also have a PA carry permit, since I live a mile from the line and my home state of MD has zero reciprocity with anyone) is that these new bills are trying to lock out the Governor's ability to declare these emergencies and shut down the firearms industry (and individual carry) in the future. They don't include any new restrictions; they're trying to reduce his ability to restrict. The curiosity is, whether he will sign them, or veto them - will things stay the same (veto)? Or get better (sign)? At least, that's my read from multiple articles on the subject (none of which are very clear...journalism truly is a lost art...).
 
Peglegjoe said:
My read on these (and I also have a PA carry permit, since I live a mile from the line and my home state of MD has zero reciprocity with anyone) is that these new bills are trying to lock out the Governor's ability to declare these emergencies and shut down the firearms industry (and individual carry) in the future. They don't include any new restrictions; they're trying to reduce his ability to restrict. The curiosity is, whether he will sign them, or veto them - will things stay the same (veto)? Or get better (sign)? At least, that's my read from multiple articles on the subject (none of which are very clear...journalism truly is a lost art...).
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My take on these are the same way Peglegjoe (which possibly I misinterpreted, since there many new bills being passed on this subject). The Pa. Legislators gave the Governor that right to issue emergency edicts, but didn't provide an expiration date to these powers. The Governor started arbitrarily closing some businesses while leave others (include some he owned), opened. It was difficult for any Representative to get a list from the Governors office, on what business was nonessential and which one wasn't (i.e. A hardware store in one town was closed as nonessential and another hardware store elsewhere was determined to be essential thus open. The Governor's office could not readily explain a valid reason as to why). The Pa. Legislator started to pass bills, first trying to set a date when his emergency powers would cease (he didn't sign it, nor could they override his veto). The Legislators then tried taking him to court (this eventually failed), then they started passing bills (such as these two) to limit his emergency powers on specific areas and businesses. One prior bill passed also dealt with indoor occupancy of resturants (quite a few failing due to lack of patrons), which the Governor also refused to sign and again a veto override was unsucessful. These bills (other than these two listed in this thread), happened before the election. Perhaps (as I'm unaware of its total outcome), the Republicans picked up enough seats to finally override his vetoes. I know the Republicans still own the majority in both houses, but I am unsure of the numbers. We'll find out shortly, as I'm guessing the Governor isn't signing these bills into law without a fight.
 
Hey @Peglegjoe, you may already be aware of this, but I figured I'd share with you if you aren't and for any other Maryland poster on this forum. SAF (Second Amendment Foundation), is suing the State of Maryland concerning its "May Issue" CCW stance and trying to force them to change to a "Shall Issue" stance. I'm not sure where this currently stands, but at least it's action being attempted to allow for more CCW's to be issued in your State.

freedomslodge.com

Second Amendment Foundation Suing Maryland For Refusing to Issue CCW Permits - Freedom's Lodge

Here's an example of why "may issue" concealed-carry permit laws may as well be considered concealed-carry bans: Maryland. Although its laws technically state that it's possible to get a CCW, in practice the state basically will not issue you a permit unless you are actively being murdered...
freedomslodge.com freedomslodge.com
!
 
Yeah, people have been trying for years to get it changed to a shall-issue state. I don't see it happening - we're simply too close to DC, and we have Baltimore. That whole eastern / I-95 corridor is rife with liberals, and their population density far outnumbers the rest of the state.

I hold very little hope.

We also have zero reciprocity with the rest of the nation. ZERO. None. Nada. Zip. We don't recognize anyone else's permits, so nobody recognizes ours.

I've also been saying for years that we need to put a new state line in, where Frederick County meets Washington County. Washington County and west, should become "Western Maryland" (we already call ourselves that); Frederick County and east, stays Maryland. Just like VA/WV. Either that, or just make the western part of the state, part of WV. I'm good either way.
 
Lock n' Load said:
He vetoed both bills although CC's with a LTCF can still carry legally regardless of the veto according to a previous statute.
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Yes, that is true. I'm a Pa. resident, and what "King" Wolf did after obtaining his Emergency Powers to "Flatten the Curve" of this virus, was to dictate what businesses were essential (all of his were), and what were not. Those that were deemed not (like gun store and ranges), were forced to closed. Additionally, State and local Government offices were closed, which included the county sheriff's office. This is where one had to go to either renew or apply for a Concealed Carry Permit (I was fortunate, I renewed in late December 2019 before my permit expired in January 2020, and before the county offices closed a few months later). The Pa. State legislators, were able to allow for the extension of expired drivers licenses, vehicle registrations and finally gun carry permits, but new gun owners, and those wanting their first time carry permits, were SOL (Somewhat Out of Luck :sneaky:). These two bills that were vetoed by the "King", were meant to keep Gun stores opened by classifying them as essential, and allowing those wanting their CCP's but denied due to closed offices, to be able to temporarily carry, until sheriff offices in the State opened, and CCPs could be processed. Those that had valid CCPs, were always legally allowed to continue to carry concealed (Pa. also allows for legal persons to Open Carry without a permit, but circumstances, such as being in a vehicle, would be classified as concealed, thus needing a CCP). This is at least my understanding of this issue of the veto of these two bills for what it's worth.
 
Talyn said:
How long does the Emergency Powers last?

Hope the PA legislature put a time limit on it, unless he pulled a Hugo Chavez on PA.
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Nope, no time limit (they forgot about doing that 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️). They've been trying to pass bills to set time limits, and he vetoes them, which the legislature can't override due to lack of votes. Next they took him to court, making it up to the Pa. Supreme Court (majority Democrat Judges), and you know what their decision was, that he maintains the rights of having Emergency Powers for as long as he deems it necessary to combat this crisis. He's been dictating crowd sizes, capacities of restaurant patrons, and recently setting guidelines for travel in and out of the state (getting either tested or having to quarantine for those entering the State), recommending strongly that only people that reside in your household cerebrate the holidays (no family that doesn't reside there should attend), and just the other day, using the Emergency State wireless system (like for Amber Alerts), to blast your wireless phones and tablets with "Covid is out of control in this State" messages. I'm interested to see if the Republicans made gains (they still control the majority), in the State house for them to override his Vetoes when they get sworn in for their new terms.
 
Somebody should show this to him:

web.archive.org

A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19

According to new data, the U.S. currently ranks first in total COVID-19 cases, new cases per day and deaths. Genevieve Briand, assistant program director of the Applied Economics master’s degree program at Hopkins, critically analyzed the effect of COVID-19 on U.S. deaths using data from the...
web.archive.org web.archive.org
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No more people have died in 2020, than in any year 2014-2019.

Period.

The sum total of US deaths is relatively constant, from 2014 through 2020. Numbers come directly from CDC.

Deaths have been reclassified in 2020, though. More COVID deaths (of course)...but a corresponding decrease in death from things like heart disease, and plain ol' old age. Net result? Same total number of dead folks this year, as from five years' prior.

People die.

That report? From John Hopkins. Not a "radical Right" website or anything like that.

Hopkins.

Using CDC numbers and data.

Can we end all this crap now?
 
Peglegjoe said:
Somebody should show this to him:



No more people have died in 2020, than in any year 2014-2019.

Period.

The sum total of US deaths is relatively constant, from 2014 through 2020. Numbers come directly from CDC.

Deaths have been reclassified in 2020, though. More COVID deaths (of course)...but a corresponding decrease in death from things like heart disease, and plain ol' old age. Net result? Same total number of dead folks this year, as from five years' prior.

People die.

That report? From John Hopkins. Not a "radical Right" website or anything like that.

Hopkins.

Using CDC numbers and data.

Can we end all this crap now?
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Ok so I have to admit that was a very informative article and made me stop and think about this whole situation however without wanting to start an argument I want to ask about your last sentence.

“Can we end all this crap now”

What exactly do you want to stop doing?
Wearing masks?
Open all restaurants and bars?
Allow sports and other gatherings to go back to normal?
In other words pretend the virus doesn’t exists?
Just wondering????
 
Yes - let's end it all, right now.

If overall deaths have not increased...why are we shut down? Why are we wearing masks? Why are we driving small businesses into the ground?

The CDC's own numbers show this thing has a 99.969% overall recovery rate. That's for ALL age groups, including 70+. An overall .04% chance of having serious issues from something? Does not scare me. That is four one-thousandths of a percent. Or, in whole-person speak...four people per 100,000.

99,969 people out of every 100,000 will be just fine in the end.

And according to the article, and the numbers...the other four would likely die anyway, COVID or no COVID.

The virus is a virus. Not a death sentence. Not even close. If it were a death sentence, then yes, it would be important to "respect" it and "pay attention" to it. But...it's not. It deserves no more fear, or attention, or "respect", than the common cold, or the common flu. Especially when you take into account the fact that the majority of "corona deaths" are simply - and the numbers prove it - re-labeled heart disease deaths, or re-labeled cancer deaths, or re-labeled asthma deaths.

The common cold is a virus (a coronavirus, actually...). People get it all the time. We don't shut down the world for it.
Influenza is a virus. We don't shut down the world for it, either.

If the same number of people overall, are dying each year...then why in the world would we NOT go back to normal? This is, for all intents and purposes, a "normal" year for people dying. They do it all the time. Dead-people numbers have not gone up...so why are we all allowing our "leaders" to force us out of business, into seclusion, into alcoholism, out of elective surgical procedures, out of normal life, and into depression?

Yes.

End it all. Now. Open back up.
 
Peglegjoe said:
Yes - let's end it all, right now.

If overall deaths have not increased...why are we shut down? Why are we wearing masks? Why are we driving small businesses into the ground?

The CDC's own numbers show this thing has a 99.969% overall recovery rate. That's for ALL age groups, including 70+. An overall .04% chance of having serious issues from something? Does not scare me. That is four one-thousandths of a percent. Or, in whole-person speak...four people per 100,000.

99,969 people out of every 100,000 will be just fine in the end.

And according to the article, and the numbers...the other four would likely die anyway, COVID or no COVID.

The virus is a virus. Not a death sentence. Not even close. If it were a death sentence, then yes, it would be important to "respect" it and "pay attention" to it. But...it's not. It deserves no more fear, or attention, or "respect", than the common cold, or the common flu. Especially when you take into account the fact that the majority of "corona deaths" are simply - and the numbers prove it - re-labeled heart disease deaths, or re-labeled cancer deaths, or re-labeled asthma deaths.

The common cold is a virus (a coronavirus, actually...). People get it all the time. We don't shut down the world for it.
Influenza is a virus. We don't shut down the world for it, either.

If the same number of people overall, are dying each year...then why in the world would we NOT go back to normal? This is, for all intents and purposes, a "normal" year for people dying. They do it all the time. Dead-people numbers have not gone up...so why are we all allowing our "leaders" to force us out of business, into seclusion, into alcoholism, out of elective surgical procedures, out of normal life, and into depression?

Yes.

End it all. Now. Open back up.
Click to expand...
I do agree with a lot of what you’re saying however I do believe we need to continue to be diligent and careful.
I will say that this does speak volumes on why the current president downplayed this but that being said I also believe his lack of openness worked against him.
Will this all be worse with the incoming administration? Absolutely. They will want us under control up to including another shut down. That’s my fear.
 
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