testtest

Pitty Doggy Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

C. Sumpin

Custom
A short interesting story of wolves throughout the ages and possibly why they got a bad rap or at least the one they did?

Nature. Insignificant.

Now post the list of Pit Bull type dog mauling's/attacks that have resulted in disfigurement, disability & death, most often of infants, children, elderly and handicapped.
 
I’ve had a few pitbulls. And yeah, if you’re an A-hole you’ll have a dangerous dog. All of mine were great. Of course I was responsible with them. Never let them be in situations where they could get in trouble. Never took them to dog parks, walked them without a leash or left them alone with other people’s brats. Google which breed of dog bites the most people. It may surprise you.
 
The responses are predictable. Don't anyone take this personal; even pitty bully dog owners do not know what they have, Animal Control employees don't know, veterinarians don't know and the general public of course does not know, the AKC does not know (or care). So, up to me to dispense a bit of education and beg my pardon if I'm not shy about it; if it saves one life, one disfiguration, one trauma, then it's worth it.

One can find any stat you prefer on which breed bites the most or is most dangerous, the causes for it, and what can be done to prevent it, or to cure it. While a beagle, poodle and a dozen other breeds can be kicked off the cuff for aggression, a Bull or a Rott (OK, lets include the German Shepard, Chow, and all large breeds, tho the incident rate and degree of injury and violence of it is much lower) is another matter. And forget not the Belgian Malinois (-ma - Len - wa), the streamlined version of a German Shepard.

But what causes a long owned Pitty (or Rotty or.......you get me) that has been a docile family pet, affectionate like any other canine to suddenly ( and not so unpredictable, as you will learn ) "go off", "become vicious" or "attack" seemingly unprovoked? Canine, along with many others in the animal kingdom, have seven basic instincts: Food drive, defense, territorial, pack, mating, prey drive, and guarding the prey. What is Prey drive and why is it key canine behavior? Again, the Pit Bull, followed by the Rottweiler then in descending amounts in the rest of the breeds, have the highest ratios of it. It is an inherent part of the dogs psych; it can not be "trained out", "socialized out" nor "bred out". It is a latent behavior until triggered by motion and/or audible activity. In National Geographic presentations you can see the prey/pack instincts in action: selection of the young/weak/lame/slow/isolated for take down, often triggered by sudden movement/alarm/sound. Sound familiar with children playing and shouting, a handicapped or elderly person with a limp, or an intoxicated person or a baby squalling? So there lays the family Pitt/Rott pet in the front yard, some children are progressing down the street playing kickball, shouting, laughing and having fun, prey drive now in play.........they are approaching the "territorial drive/boundary" of the Pitt; along with the children are one of their pets, (add another dog + or more = pack instinct now in play), the ball is kicked into the Pitts yard, defense instinct is now in play.......the stage is set for tragedy and no one knows why the "big baby", aka family pet went insane and mauled/mutilated/killed a child then turns on the neighbor who intervenes (remember guarding the prey instinct?), what a wolf/lion/dog will do when they can not consume the kill in one feeding?
So let's chain that Pitt to the tree so he won't cause trouble. Now, in this artificial environment, with the vegetation bare to the end of the tether that is now the Pitts "territory", the feeding/water bowl/toy has become the "prey" to be guarded and no one understands why he went wild and killed one of the children who went to fetch the bowl for feeding. Or the owner was one day "attacked" going into the dogs room in the house. Or a thousand other scenarios that may trigger "prey drive". Are you getting it? The insurance companies have; many will not insure homeowners who keep this type animal. Not rare for Pitts to be banned in some towns, neighborhoods across this nation, they have earned and deserve special consideration under the law due to documented history of risk.

Rare for a Pitt to be in obedience competition. They score very low on temperament testing. Companion dog, why?
Pitts or Rotts in the Military?; don't think so. And who had ever witnessed a Pitt in LE?? If there is one thing a Police dog must do is OUT! and (excuse me while I laugh) where is the Pitt that will release a bite on command?? I'm just getting warmed up but you are bored so must make an end here.

If you haven't had enough we can start on the psychological profile of owners who are so proud of their Pitts.

The Pit Bull and Pit Bull type breeds should be banned. At the very least owners should be required to pass competency testing of the breed and inherent traits plus stringent kennel/control/financial/risk restrictions
 
While I am not an expert in canines by any stretch, I have owned and trained dogs for hunting, and managed a police K9 program in my department, and have seen many reported dog bites over the years. Although I have seen some pretty terrible injuries from maulings, thank God we never had a fatal attack to investigate in my time. (As an aside when working patrol I always wore boots to protect my ankles from people's aggressive little chihuahuas and such).

Of one thing I am certain. If you want certain traits in your dog, look at what the dog was bred for. If they come from a line of dogs bred for fighting or protection or aggression, well, don't be surprised if those traits show up in your puppy. Add lack of training, neglect, abuse, or an irresponsible owner to the mix and you have a potentially dangerous situation. One of the reasons to use caution with rescues, you have no idea what genetic health or behavior issues are coming with it.

With 9 grandchildren, when I was choosing my latest retriever, my wife and i agreed that whatever it is, it be good with small children. My research landed me on U.K. Labradors which are bred for calmness, tractability, and hunting abilities. We have a dog that came to us at 7 weeks of age with those traits built in and she emerged as a great retriever who is also a great companion and family dog. She produced two litters of puppies that all came with the same traits. Of course environment, care, and training are important, but you can't erase genetic programming.
 
I'm just going to put this out here. My family background is in breeding dogs. Treeing walkers, cocker spaniel, Bull Terriers and American Pit Bull Terriers. My aunt had more than one dog in the West minster dog show. Am I a professional like my grandfather and Aunt...? nope.
I will say this much I've walked as a child into many yards of many breeders of pitdogs as a child who's dogs were staked to the ground with a car axle and chain. These dogs didn't know me from Adam but yet they all were extremely friendly and just wanted to lick me and roll and play with me I remember that like it was yesteday. The old time breeders would not breed a dog that showed a tendency to bite humans they killed them because they knew the damage the dogs could do.
They had no use for dogs that showed a tendency to growl bite or snap or show aggression towards humans they bred these dogs for one thing only and that was to catch large animals or fight other dogs whether you agree with this or not that's not the argument here. None of these people fought dogs to the death they were only fought for breeding purposes you breed the best dogs with the best characteristics to the other best dogs with the best characteristics plain and simple and there was only one way to find these characteristics of gameness and stamina. Basically what happened was these dogs got into the public the public started breeding dogs and breeding very aggressive dogs towards humans to more aggressive dogs towards humans which in turn gave the American pit Bull terrier a very bad reputation. I have many old books on the subject and basically back in the thirties and forties these dogs were known as the worst guard dogs on the planet. They loved humans they thrived with humans they hated critters of all kinds whether they beat other dogs cats, bats, rats,gnus etc....
I will agree that these dogs are not for everyone especially today now that we have a whole lot of them that have had this human aggressive gene bred on top of other human aggressive pit dogs.
Because in the '90s everybody was trying to make a fast Dollar on these dogs because they were so popular you have scatter bred dogs all over the place you have so many inbred dogs that the line has gotten trashed plain and simple it has happened to other dogs not just pit dogs you look at the German shepherds the Dobermans the Rottweilers anything that is very popular at the time the breeding goes to heck due to almighty greed.

I can trace my dogs back 50+ years through breeding records and meticulous record keeping of very scrupulous breeders.
Most of the American pit dog today are the generations of aunts and uncles and brothers and sisters and cousins and everything bread on top of each other which makes for a very unstable line of dogs that I will agree with 100%.
And just like anything else in life you have a real idiot for an owner you have a real idiot for a dog the Apple doesn't fall far from the tree with that and there are some people that should never have dogs like this because they just don't have the responsibility and that goes with many things in life whether it be Firearms fast cars motorcycles or anything else you have a particular segment of people that should never own one. Those people give very bad reputations to all the good people and all the good dogs.
 
Last edited:
While I am not an expert in canines by any stretch, I have owned and trained dogs for hunting, and managed a police K9 program in my department, and have seen many reported dog bites over the years. Although I have seen some pretty terrible injuries from maulings, thank God we never had a fatal attack to investigate in my time. (As an aside when working patrol I always wore boots to protect my ankles from people's aggressive little chihuahuas and such).

Of one thing I am certain. If you want certain traits in your dog, look at what the dog was bred for. If they come from a line of dogs bred for fighting or protection or aggression, well, don't be surprised if those traits show up in your puppy. Add lack of training, neglect, abuse, or an irresponsible owner to the mix and you have a potentially dangerous situation. One of the reasons to use caution with rescues, you have no idea what genetic health or behavior issues are coming with it.

With 9 grandchildren, when I was choosing my latest retriever, my wife and i agreed that whatever it is, it be good with small children. My research landed me on U.K. Labradors which are bred for calmness, tractability, and hunting abilities. We have a dog that came to us at 7 weeks of age with those traits built in and she emerged as a great retriever who is also a great companion and family dog. She produced two litters of puppies that all came with the same traits. Of course environment, care, and training are important, but you can't erase genetic programming.
Mostly agree. With the possible exception of: "but you can't erase genetic programming." You can however modify it into something else? Dogs coming from, descending from wolves are proof of that in some ways, in other ways not. There's a beast in all of us? To what degree, Dr. Jeckle, Mr. Hyde and wild, untamed cattle and domesticated cattle for example? On another end, there's hogs reverting back to boar? To completely pacify isn't a desirable trait either. Tolerable is usual goal.
 
I'm just going to put this out here. My family background is in breeding dogs. Treeing walkers, cocker spaniel, Bull Terriers and American Pit Bull Terriers. My aunt had more than one dog in the West minster dog show. Am I a professional like my grandfather and Aunt...? nope.
I will say this much I've walked as a child into many yards of many breeders of pitdogs as a child who's dogs were staked to the ground with a car axle and chain. These dogs didn't know me from Adam but yet they all were extremely friendly and just wanted to lick me and roll and play with me I remember that like it was yesteday. The old time breeders would not breed a dog that showed a tendency to bite humans they killed them because they knew the damage the dogs could do.
They had no use for dogs that showed a tendency to growl bite or snap or show aggression towards humans they bred these dogs for one thing only and that was to catch large animals or fight other dogs whether you agree with this or not that's not the argument here. None of these people fought dogs to the death they were only fought for breeding purposes you breed the best dogs with the best characteristics to the other best dogs with the best characteristics plain and simple and there was only one way to find these characteristics of gameness and stamina. Basically what happened was these dogs got into the public the public started breeding dogs and breeding very aggressive dogs towards humans to more aggressive dogs towards humans which in turn gave the American pit Bull terrier a very bad reputation. I have many old books on the subject and basically back in the thirties and forties these dogs were known as the worst guard dogs on the planet. They loved humans they thrived with humans they hated critters of all kinds whether they beat other dogs cats, bats, rats,gnus etc....
I will agree that these dogs are not for everyone especially today now that we have a whole lot of them that have had this human aggressive gene bred on top of other human aggressive pit dogs.
Because in the '90s everybody was trying to make a fast Dollar on these dogs because they were so popular you have scatter bred dogs all over the place you have so many inbred dogs that the line has gotten trashed plain and simple it has happened to other dogs not just pit dogs you look at the German shepherds the Dobermans the Rottweilers anything that is very popular at the time the breeding goes to heck due to almighty greed.

I can trace my dogs back 50+ years through breeding records and meticulous record keeping of very scrupulous breeders.
Most of the American pit dog today are the generations of aunts and uncles and brothers and sisters and cousins and everything bread on top of each other which makes for a very unstable line of dogs that I will agree with 100%.
And just like anything else in life you have a real idiot for an owner you have a real idiot for a dog the Apple doesn't fall far from the tree with that and there are some people that should never have dogs like this because they just don't have the responsibility and that goes with many things in life whether it be Firearms fast cars motorcycles or anything else you have a particular segment of people that should never own one. Those people give very bad reputations to all the good people and all the good dogs.
Cocker spaniel was another popular breed ruined by inbreeding greed and ignorance. Had one long ago. Picture perfect blonde stature but lousy temperament. Was thankfully spayed.
 
A search through medical transcripts (and news accounts) and Police logs of the damages/death this breed has rendered leaves one in awe of how/why the breed is tolerated anywhere in the USA. Reading doctors/surgeons graphic accounts of disfigurement/disability and lifelong trauma (of children mostly) leaves a twinge in the lower parts of the most hardcore. Majority of the time a Pitt attack is terminated only by choking the dog down or a bullet in the head. Anyone who is an eyewitness of the indiscriminate savagery and blind focus of these dogs (they cease aggression only when the body goes limp/dead) is a PTSD victim. A potential owner of the breed should be required to view videos of attacks and read graphic post attack medical treatment - not so many would remain intent on owning one. Even a strong healthy person stands little chance when hit chest high by ninety pounds of full charging ferocity. Children are then often locked in a full midsection bite with the dog snapping the victim in a figure eight motion resulting in broken neck/bones. But, it's in the nature of (most) Pit owners to remain in ignorance/denial of the beast they own and makes them an accomplice to the tragedies.
 
A true pitdog will never be 90#. That is a dog crossed with a much bigger mastiff like dog.
The American Pit Bull standard is 35-50#.
You keep proving my point that the unscrupulous bad breeding that has taken place. I'm done here no disrespect but your ignorance on this breed is astounding.

In my personal experience I've been bit by two breeds more than once, Dobermans and German shepherds. Yet I would never advocate that nobody should own them and they should be banned and outlawed.
Good day sir!
 
I'm just going to put this out here. My family background is in breeding dogs. Treeing walkers, cocker spaniel, Bull Terriers and American Pit Bull Terriers. My aunt had more than one dog in the West minster dog show. Am I a professional like my grandfather and Aunt...? nope.
I will say this much I've walked as a child into many yards of many breeders of pitdogs as a child who's dogs were staked to the ground with a car axle and chain. These dogs didn't know me from Adam but yet they all were extremely friendly and just wanted to lick me and roll and play with me I remember that like it was yesteday. The old time breeders would not breed a dog that showed a tendency to bite humans they killed them because they knew the damage the dogs could do.
They had no use for dogs that showed a tendency to growl bite or snap or show aggression towards humans they bred these dogs for one thing only and that was to catch large animals or fight other dogs whether you agree with this or not that's not the argument here. None of these people fought dogs to the death they were only fought for breeding purposes you breed the best dogs with the best characteristics to the other best dogs with the best characteristics plain and simple and there was only one way to find these characteristics of gameness and stamina. Basically what happened was these dogs got into the public the public started breeding dogs and breeding very aggressive dogs towards humans to more aggressive dogs towards humans which in turn gave the American pit Bull terrier a very bad reputation. I have many old books on the subject and basically back in the thirties and forties these dogs were known as the worst guard dogs on the planet. They loved humans they thrived with humans they hated critters of all kinds whether they beat other dogs cats, bats, rats,gnus etc....
I will agree that these dogs are not for everyone especially today now that we have a whole lot of them that have had this human aggressive gene bred on top of other human aggressive pit dogs.
Because in the '90s everybody was trying to make a fast Dollar on these dogs because they were so popular you have scatter bred dogs all over the place you have so many inbred dogs that the line has gotten trashed plain and simple it has happened to other dogs not just pit dogs you look at the German shepherds the Dobermans the Rottweilers anything that is very popular at the time the breeding goes to heck due to almighty greed.

I can trace my dogs back 50+ years through breeding records and meticulous record keeping of very scrupulous breeders.
Most of the American pit dog today are the generations of aunts and uncles and brothers and sisters and cousins and everything bread on top of each other which makes for a very unstable line of dogs that I will agree with 100%.
And just like anything else in life you have a real idiot for an owner you have a real idiot for a dog the Apple doesn't fall far from the tree with that and there are some people that should never have dogs like this because they just don't have the responsibility and that goes with many things in life whether it be Firearms fast cars motorcycles or anything else you have a particular segment of people that should never own one. Those people give very bad reputations to all the good people and all the good dogs.
Exactly. As a pitbull owner you have a responsibility. More than anything a responsibility to the dog. They get into trouble primarily for one reason. They are strong and fearless. If you put them in a situation where they want to fight instinctively you’re an A hole. Pitbulls were not bred to fight. People do that to them. The thing that is instinctual is defending themselves and their master(s). If another dog postures, your pitbull may attack it. They don’t usually start fights, they’re just really good at ending them. YOU have a responsibility not to put them in those situations.

My last dog Max was a brindle American Staffordshire Terrier. My niece found him in a dumpster when he was a couple weeks old. Where some thug no doubt threw him because he was a runt. When she died I took Max because my sister wanted to put him down and have him buried with her. I can’t believe we had the same parents. Anyway, Max was about 8 when I got him and I had an 11 year old Golden retriever already. And a cat. And a young daughter. I could bore you with all the great stories, but just picture a 10 year old girl, a cat and 2 large dogs all sleeping in a twin bed. This was the scene every night.

Dogs are great. People are stupid.
 
It would be humorous if it weren't so tragic, how Pitty Bully owners, just like some parents of a delinquent brat, ignore the offenses and defend them!! Medical/LE/Coroner data don't lie. But Pit owners simply squeeze their minds shut to it.

Oh. And the proper weight for a Bully Pitty must not exceed fifty pounds, according to...........
 
A domesticated animal regardless of canine, feline, livestock, other breed, type or sex is only as temperament and good as their owner. The best breed in the world irregardless.
 
A domesticated animal regardless of canine, feline, livestock, other breed, type or sex is only as temperament and good as their owner. The best breed in the world irregardless.
Am thinking got the gist of what you're saying, temperament and raising has direct effect on animals and offspring? 99% Agree with some exceptions, spoiling and pampering something sometimes brings out the "beast" or undesired effects in them too? - Have seen! Ever been snubbed by an aloof dog? Is sort of comical, but to what real effect? :)
 
It would be humorous if it weren't so tragic, how Pitty Bully owners, just like some parents of a delinquent brat, ignore the offenses and defend them!! Medical/LE/Coroner data don't lie. But Pit owners simply squeeze their minds shut to it.

Oh. And the proper weight for a Bully Pitty must not exceed fifty pounds, according to...........
You realize you could substitute the word gun for pitbull and you’d sound just like Dianne Feinstein.
 
1620413826326.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top