Range Report: More 9mm and .45, 12/12/24

[BassCliff]

Hey er'r'body!

I had a practice session on Thursday before my class today (Saturday, 12/14/24). I wanted to get all of my bad hits out of the way so that only the good hits were left for my class. I'll share the class in a separate post. My practice session was really nothing to write home about but I used it to try some different vision experiments. The range was pretty busy on Thursday afternoon but I managed to get my favorite lane, #8. I brought a few targets and the XD9 Mod.3 and XD45 Mod.2 Tactical. I figured I'd use the same two pistols as last week since I haven't cleaned them yet. Oops. But neither gave me any trouble at all.

I remembered to bring along a box of the Norma MHP ammo. It was on sale recently for very cheap, $7 or $8 a box, and since I have a few boxes I thought I'd try one to see how it ran.

I shot the whole session at 10 yards, starting with the small silhouette, featuring a special yellow sticker for the bullseye.

I began with the XD9 Mod.3 with the Holosun optic. My first target came back like this.

Yeah, not too good. The next couple of targets were about the same so I decided to switch it up. I like the 1/3 size USPSA targets.

That's not too bad, only one hit outside the A box. Yay me. (I'm shooting 10-shot strings.) But the next target starts to spread out. Hmm.

I realized that I'm having to hold my head funny so that I can see the reticle. The bifocal in my shooting glasses is getting in the way, making my reticle look fuzzy. So I swapped out that lens and put in a non-bifocal lens on my glasses.

The next target was even worse. Yeow.

I guess I have to get accustomed to the plain glasses using the optic. The next target was a little better, except for that one flyer way low-left.

OK, let's settle down and see if I can get my naked eyes to work properly with my Holosun. I guess this is starting to look better.

I tell you what, kids, don't get old. Take care of your eyes. Eat lots of carrots. Let's try some B-8 centers just for fun.

I guess I'm starting to get the hang of shooting with an optic using only my naked eyes. I've got one more B-8 center.

The 10-shot group is starting to tighten up. I think after a couple more sessions you'll see some improvement. I'm just going to swap a lens in my shooting glasses when I use the optic. It's easy, they snap in and out. Oh, then I remembered to shoot the Norma MHP. PSA was selling it for cheap, $8 a box, but they're all sold out now. Ammoseek has listings for $17 and higher. It shot from my XD9 with no issues functionally. The lousy accuracy was probably my fault.

The second half of this session featured my XD45 Mod.2 Tactical. This first target is meh.

The second target is only marginally better.

Then it dawned on me. I can't see my front sight. I forgot to put the "top bifocal" lens back in my shooting glasses. There, that's a little better.

OK, now I'm starting to get my mojo back.

Target #5, still sticking with the 10-shot strings.

For this last target I was trying to make a big ragged hole with about 50 rounds. I guess I succeeded, but next time I'll try to get the hole more toward the center.

That was my practice session this week. I'll be back after supper to post my training session from today. I'll be using the VP9 for that. Thanks for letting me share my fun.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Bassbob]

Just a thought Cliff, but you may be hanging your reticle over the bull too long. What I mean by that is that with a dot, if you dawdle over your sight picture too long you are gonna see a whole lot of movement on that little dot. You'll try real hard to get it on target and keep it there. That's A) pointless and B) fatiguing. When you bring the gun up your grip is already good, get the trigger to the wall and as soon as your dot is on the bull press the trigger. Before long you will get to the point where when the shot feels good you'll take it. If that makes any sense.

I could be way off base brother, it's hard for me to tell anything based on a picture of a target.

 

[wolfpack076]

Good Shootin SIR

 

[NMEDGE]

Not bad shooting, you'll get the hang of it soon.

 

[SimonRL]

I use two different pairs of glasses if I’m switching between optic and iron sights. I can’t see a front sight worth a darn, but beyond that I see like a hawk. I have a set of the SSP glasses, but the bifocal gets in the way as the glasses tend to slip down. I wear clear shooting glasses for optics and readers for iron sights. BTW, I’ve said this before but the reason I run red dots on 90% of my handguns, including EDC, is I don’t think the bad guy is going to give me time to put my readers on.

 

[Belt Fed]

Good shootin Agent Cliff, range day is always a good day no matter how ya shoot.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi Bob,

Just a thought Cliff, but you may be hanging your reticle over the bull too long. What I mean by that is that with a dot, if you dawdle over your sight picture too long you are gonna see a whole lot of movement on that little dot. You'll try real hard to get it on target and keep it there. That's A) pointless and B) fatiguing. When you bring the gun up your grip is already good, get the trigger to the wall and as soon as your dot is on the bull press the trigger. Before long you will get to the point where when the shot feels good you'll take it. If that makes any sense.

I could be way off base brother, it's hard for me to tell anything based on a picture of a target.

Yes, I've noticed that. I believe you are correct. The longer I hold, looking for that "perfect" shot, the more I see it moving around. I'll just have to trust myself. When I see the dot on the bullseye and the trigger is prep'd, take the shot. Hopefully it'll take only a couple of sessions to fully get in the swing of things. The range offers a red dot class. That may prove helpful. It concentrates on having the dot in view at presentation. It's not good to be wiggling your gun around looking for the dot.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[BassCliff]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for your insight.

I use two different pairs of glasses if I’m switching between optic and iron sights. I can’t see a front sight worth a darn, but beyond that I see like a hawk. I have a set of the SSP glasses, but the bifocal gets in the way as the glasses tend to slip down. I wear clear shooting glasses for optics and readers for iron sights. BTW, I’ve said this before but the reason I run red dots on 90% of my handguns, including EDC, is I don’t think the bad guy is going to give me time to put my readers on.

I guess I'm in the same boat now. It surprised me how clear the reticle was without my glasses. I just have to get used to this new world of optics.

I also occasionally practice without corrective lenses, for the reasons you state. I put Speed Sights on my carry guns. Well, I have them on my XD9 and have a set ordered for the VP9. They allow me to line up the "fuzzy diamonds" to aim. I don't do nearly as well with other iron sight configurations, "three dot", etc.

I use the green front sight with tritium. I get good "combat accuracy" without my "cheater lenses". Since I'm right eye dominant, I use the corrective lens only on the right side. The left lens is straight clear. If my eyes get any worse, I may have to bump up the magnification to the next level. Or maybe I'll just try eating more carrots. How do you know carrots are good for your eyes? Well, you've never seen a rabbit wearing glasses, have you?


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Good Shootin SIR

Not bad shooting, you'll get the hang of it soon.

Good shootin Agent Cliff, range day is always a good day no matter how ya shoot.

Aww, you guys are just too nice. Yes, I'm hoping a couple more practice sessions and I'll get the procedure down. I need to practice my draw and presentation more so that I can bring that dot right up in line, not have to hunt for it.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Bassbob]

Hi Bob,



Yes, I've noticed that. I believe you are correct. The longer I hold, looking for that "perfect" shot, the more I see it moving around. I'll just have to trust myself. When I see the dot on the bullseye and the trigger is prep'd, take the shot. Hopefully it'll take only a couple of sessions to fully get in the swing of things. The range offers a red dot class. That may prove helpful. It concentrates on having the dot in view at presentation. It's not good to be wiggling your gun around looking for the dot.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

That's all in the draw. Same as with irons. Economy of motion, repetition, same sight picture every single time.
@SimonRL posted a video a while back that had some pretty good tips.

 

[belladonna]

I like to think that any shooting is good shooting, because you're shooting. It might not be great, but we learn from it. I think you're doing fine, Cliff, and I am learning as much from the tips in your report thread as you are. I'm thinking I may need to invest in a pair of those glasses you and @SimonRL mention here...

 

[SimonRL]

That's all in the draw. Same as with irons. Economy of motion, repetition, same sight picture every single time.
@SimonRL posted a video a while back that had some pretty good tips.

I thought I was pretty sh*t hot with a red dot until I trained with this team and it improved almost every way I present my gun. And the effect it had on my rapid fire was pretty astounding.

Hi,





Aww, you guys are just too nice. Yes, I'm hoping a couple more practice sessions and I'll get the procedure down. I need to practice my draw and presentation more so that I can bring that dot right up in line, not have to hunt for it.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

Again, watch the video above. You have to bring the optic up to your eye, not your eye to the optic. It sounds simple but a lot of people duck down. Whats really cool is that when you get proficient at getting the dot up to your eye you’ll still find sometimes that the dot is not there, but when you adjust your head minutely you’ll see that the dot is bang on the target waiting for you to pull the trigger. Once you get the hang of it you’ll have the confidence to let it fly knowing that its already on target and then on your subsequent shots you just adjust your head.

 

[rcurtner]

Long before putting a round range did several hours dry firing with a dot and Mantis X3 device. Hardest thing to overcome was to stop focusing on the dot instead of the target. Still have trouble but am getting better. I start prepping the trigger as I reach my POA. Prior to a range trip do a little dry fire with the mantis focusing on fundementals. Wear reading glasses for irons and plain eyeballs with dots. Still a long way from I would like to be but am improving. Don't want to beat a dead horse but the Mantis system has been a game changer for me.

 

[Biggfoot44]

In the other recent thread , you mentioned between shots " bringing to compressed , and then extending out " ( or something to similar effect ) . Is that also for this thread / range session ?

What pace are you shooting ?

 

[rcurtner]

In the other recent thread , you mentioned between shots " bringing to compressed , and then extending out " ( or something to similar effect ) . Is that also for this thread / range session ?

What pace are you shooting ?

Hey BiggFoot44 who are you asking this question?

 

[Biggfoot44]

BassCliff

 

[Biggfoot44]

Again, watch the video above.

Watched the Video .

Yes ! He does make a departure from the usual Red Dot Gurus. And it actually makes sense , albeit not in the way he seemingly intends .


On the aquisition, he's actually teaching a Flash Sight Picture .

Pick up front sight in peripheral vision . Bring front sight onto target.

Just has the extra added step of then needing to see a dot .

If it were old school guns with regular sights , once front sight in peripheral vision is on center of target , bang , center hit .

 

[SimonRL]

Watched the Video .

Yes ! He does make a departure from the usual Red Dot Gurus. And it actually makes sense , albeit not in the way he seemingly intends .


On the aquisition, he's actually teaching a Flash Sight Picture .

Pick up front sight in peripheral vision . Bring front sight onto target.

Just has the extra added step of then needing to see a dot .

If it were old school guns with regular sights , once front sight in peripheral vision is on center of target , bang , center hit .

Flash sight picture is really the way most red dot training goes, it just isn’t referred to that way. But everyone teaches that once the dot is in the window fire away. The difference from class to class is how they get you to dot on target. I honestly don’t think many people actually do the front sight in the peripheral thing and when I did the training there was minimal discussion of that. I could be wrong, but I never did because I can’t see the front sight without readers. The important thing is the grip he teaches and the presentation. If you follow that the dot is always there.

BTW, Scott Jedlinski is Walther’s Max Michel.

 

[rcurtner]

Flash sight picture is really the way most red dot training goes, it just isn’t referred to that way. But everyone teaches that once the dot is in the window fire away. The difference from class to class is how they get you to dot on target. I honestly don’t think many people actually do the front sight in the peripheral thing and when I did the training there was minimal discussion of that. I could be wrong, but I never did because I can’t see the front sight without readers. The important thing is the grip he teaches and the presentation. If you follow that the dot is always there.

BTW, Scott Jedlinski is Walther’s Max Michel.

On my dot sights I aways try to get the dot centered in the window. I place the pistol in a stationary vise aligning the iron sights putting the dot on top of the front sight. From there move the dot straight up till centered in the window. Never have to fire many rounds to zero. SimonRL is right on, a consistent grip is the best way to find the dot. Have dry fired many hours drawing from a concealed holster and now don't have trouble finding the dot. I still occasionally dry fire before a range trip to reinforce fundamentals.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Semantics , and how you describe things .

What I was making note of was the peripheral Front Sight * As the Gun was being Brought On Target * , so that as you reach the firing stage , it's Already There , as opposed dots only being visible ( or not ) once the gun is in position.

**********************

But yes , the full gamut of use of Real Sights is / was usually woefully under exposed in the usual " training " .