Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Should You Not Carry a Gun?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/why-you-shouldnt-carry-a-gun/.
Should You Not Carry a Gun?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
youngolddude
Professional
The armed guy who gave up his wallet was lucky. I wouldn't bet my life on a coin toss, but maybe that's me. If you're not prepared to use your gun, you shouldn't go armed.
steveparkernm
Alpha
By giving up your wallet this time, the next time it may be your or someone else's life. If you are not going to stop this then don't carry.
SouthpawUH60FI
Alpha
Second guessing his decision based on the loose description of the event in this article seems short sighted. Clearly he did not feel his life was in danger, which is a requirement of self defense by any means of force. There are many other reasons as well that I must think about before deciding whether to draw my firearm or not. Today's political climate of racial and financial circumstances are being twisted and used to determine whether prosecution is pursued or not in otherwise justifiable self defense cases. Just as you said, "I wouldn't bet my life on a coin toss." Forfeiting $100.00 and cancelling some credit cards to avoid the legal circus was his best option in his eyes.
For the author to use that event or any other really, to say that someone shouldn't carry is irresponsible. Every person who can legally carry, should carry. The point at which the line is crossed that they can justify taking the life of another is up to them. I will concede there is one, and only one, reason someone who can legally carry should not carry. If they have already looked within themselves and decided there is no point at which they could take the life of another, then they should not carry. I would think it a safe bet that those people do not own a firearm to carry in the first place.
For the author to use that event or any other really, to say that someone shouldn't carry is irresponsible. Every person who can legally carry, should carry. The point at which the line is crossed that they can justify taking the life of another is up to them. I will concede there is one, and only one, reason someone who can legally carry should not carry. If they have already looked within themselves and decided there is no point at which they could take the life of another, then they should not carry. I would think it a safe bet that those people do not own a firearm to carry in the first place.
Pitdogg2
Professional
Absolutely! If you pull it from its holster you had better prepare to use it or die from the perp taking it from you and killing you with it.
Mr. Untactical
Master Class
This is such a deep subject to tackle in such a short article. It's easy to say, "I could shoot Johnny Ringo" but is it as easy to shoot any schmoe who makes the bad decision to rob you? Or even more convoluted, someone who is just popping off but closing into your personal space?
I know I need more training, however it is expensive to obtain at the local indoor ranges for classes that get you beyond the static firing line and into situations that let you draw from the holster, shoot on the move, etc. I've taken a couple of classes, but need more... more often and more of it (different, scenario-based, etc.). I do dry fire, I do draw from the holster at home - working to ingrain that motion... pulling the garment, grasping the firearm correctly/securely, holding the garment, presenting with an economy of motion and so that the sights are aligned on target as quickly as possible, etc.
I don't think there's such a thing as "enough" training. Shooting is a perishable skill, and since I choose to carry, it's on me to keep that skill up as much as I can. If the time to "go to guns" ever comes for me, I pray I'm ready - mentally and physically - to meet the challenge.
I know I need more training, however it is expensive to obtain at the local indoor ranges for classes that get you beyond the static firing line and into situations that let you draw from the holster, shoot on the move, etc. I've taken a couple of classes, but need more... more often and more of it (different, scenario-based, etc.). I do dry fire, I do draw from the holster at home - working to ingrain that motion... pulling the garment, grasping the firearm correctly/securely, holding the garment, presenting with an economy of motion and so that the sights are aligned on target as quickly as possible, etc.
I don't think there's such a thing as "enough" training. Shooting is a perishable skill, and since I choose to carry, it's on me to keep that skill up as much as I can. If the time to "go to guns" ever comes for me, I pray I'm ready - mentally and physically - to meet the challenge.
Invisibleflash
Elite
Well, giving up your wallet may have been the right move. Especially if they had a Soros D.A. in charge. Just depends. (But can you even carry in a city with a Soros D.A.?)
What were the details of the situation?? They didn't give all the info, so, can't say for sure. You could give up your wallet...and still be killed for fun. If disparity of force is a factor, then the gun is probably called for.
You know the dems chant is; you can't take a life to protect personal property. But what would happen if you were car jacked, out in the stix and could not travel any longer for supplies without a car...not replace your car. That is a death sentence for you...unless you got a horse and buggy. So many ifs, ands and buts involved.
If no weapons and just threats, I'd gas em. Or I'd blind them with a light and gas them. Then maybe hit them in the temple with the bottom of the gas can. Or if I had my big light, that can be used as a bludgeon, hit them in the temple or face with that...then leave.
The big light is about 3,000 lumens. It will make you curl up at night. If they keep after me, maybe I'd shoot them. Dunno. Point is, if I can get away from problems I do. In fact, I'd run away. (If I was younger.) But as you can see, all self-defense plans are iffy.
Now, if they had a knife and pulled it...I'd open up on them as soon as I saw the knife. In the old day you could shoot in the stomach or chest. Now your first shot should be lower stomach, just above the privates bc they may have armor on. Then work your way up to clavicle and face. Just be ready for the Soros D.A.!
Do you have the technical skill to make a 15-yard moving head shot in a hostage situation?
Shooting someone in the head while moving? Good luck with that! I'd go for a girdle / hip shot to slow em down then one in the ear or eye. The chest used to be OK, but too many vests out there. And I'm talking about someone coming at me, not a hostage rescue. That is for SWAT!
I don't get much range time. That is why I carry 2 Hellcats. No need to change mags. Plus, I don't plan on taking long range shots with my pistols. If things get worse, I will carry an AR-10 in the trunk or an AR-15 with EO Tech and magnifier. If that need comes about, maybe I'd be more worried about being skilled for longer range pistol shots.
Not being in the military or war, I can't get any practice with shot placement on people. So, I use a modified Darby's Rangers shot placement formula. But, I do get killing time with trapped varmints. So, I get lots of practice with shot placement and watching things take their last breath that way.
Part of my 'practice problem' is time as well as $$. So, I do best I can with what I got. I used to have a dedicated snub with laser cartridges in it. I would dry fire all the time; but I gave up on snubs after Summer of Love 2020. Now it is just all Glocks, FN's and Hellcats...along with the long black guns.
I've been around guns for 56 years, since I was about 11. Just not a gun nut any longer. I got rid of all my engraved sporting and fondling guns years ago. Guns are just tools to me now, to use and not to fondle or play war with. I have very interesting areas of work that keep me occupied, so I begrudge any time that takes away from it including range time.
Still, as our world goes to hell and lawlessness explodes, more time will have to be dedicated to survival in life-or-death events with criminals and the desperate. Any area of training will help...body, mind and war skills. But best policy is to try and escape the attack if it is all possible. Even if you are justified, the attacker may have a smidgen better skills or more luck than you on that auspicious day. And as long as everything has not gone completely to hell, the Soros D.A. will be chomping at the bit to take custody of you!
...we can't have any self-defense going on in utopia...just not equitable and just!
What were the details of the situation?? They didn't give all the info, so, can't say for sure. You could give up your wallet...and still be killed for fun. If disparity of force is a factor, then the gun is probably called for.
You know the dems chant is; you can't take a life to protect personal property. But what would happen if you were car jacked, out in the stix and could not travel any longer for supplies without a car...not replace your car. That is a death sentence for you...unless you got a horse and buggy. So many ifs, ands and buts involved.
If no weapons and just threats, I'd gas em. Or I'd blind them with a light and gas them. Then maybe hit them in the temple with the bottom of the gas can. Or if I had my big light, that can be used as a bludgeon, hit them in the temple or face with that...then leave.
The big light is about 3,000 lumens. It will make you curl up at night. If they keep after me, maybe I'd shoot them. Dunno. Point is, if I can get away from problems I do. In fact, I'd run away. (If I was younger.) But as you can see, all self-defense plans are iffy.
Now, if they had a knife and pulled it...I'd open up on them as soon as I saw the knife. In the old day you could shoot in the stomach or chest. Now your first shot should be lower stomach, just above the privates bc they may have armor on. Then work your way up to clavicle and face. Just be ready for the Soros D.A.!
Do you have the technical skill to make a 15-yard moving head shot in a hostage situation?
Shooting someone in the head while moving? Good luck with that! I'd go for a girdle / hip shot to slow em down then one in the ear or eye. The chest used to be OK, but too many vests out there. And I'm talking about someone coming at me, not a hostage rescue. That is for SWAT!
I don't get much range time. That is why I carry 2 Hellcats. No need to change mags. Plus, I don't plan on taking long range shots with my pistols. If things get worse, I will carry an AR-10 in the trunk or an AR-15 with EO Tech and magnifier. If that need comes about, maybe I'd be more worried about being skilled for longer range pistol shots.
Not being in the military or war, I can't get any practice with shot placement on people. So, I use a modified Darby's Rangers shot placement formula. But, I do get killing time with trapped varmints. So, I get lots of practice with shot placement and watching things take their last breath that way.
Part of my 'practice problem' is time as well as $$. So, I do best I can with what I got. I used to have a dedicated snub with laser cartridges in it. I would dry fire all the time; but I gave up on snubs after Summer of Love 2020. Now it is just all Glocks, FN's and Hellcats...along with the long black guns.
I've been around guns for 56 years, since I was about 11. Just not a gun nut any longer. I got rid of all my engraved sporting and fondling guns years ago. Guns are just tools to me now, to use and not to fondle or play war with. I have very interesting areas of work that keep me occupied, so I begrudge any time that takes away from it including range time.
Still, as our world goes to hell and lawlessness explodes, more time will have to be dedicated to survival in life-or-death events with criminals and the desperate. Any area of training will help...body, mind and war skills. But best policy is to try and escape the attack if it is all possible. Even if you are justified, the attacker may have a smidgen better skills or more luck than you on that auspicious day. And as long as everything has not gone completely to hell, the Soros D.A. will be chomping at the bit to take custody of you!
...we can't have any self-defense going on in utopia...just not equitable and just!
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Im glad I read the complete article for the following reason. Doc Holiday was not an upstanding citizen, in fact he would most likely be denied a CCP in states that require them. The mid to late 1800's were a very violent time to have liven in our great country. We are living in much the same environment today. The issues facing us by the criminal system are overwhelming Your RIGHT to defend yourself has been turned upside down. Convicted felons are released early to commit new crimes are then rearrested and released with no bail. Yet an upstanding citizen who choses to care canceled is persecuted by the legal system when they legally defend them selfs. My advise Train, Train, and Train some more. I also suggest that you study the laws in your state and be fully knowledgeable of your rights.
TroubledScout27
Alpha
To me I would carry a gun all the time, including at home. I would also include a backup gun.
I include around the house too.
I’m originally from Connecticut. I remember the Petit home invasion case.
Now add all the crime and all the no bail laws. Carrying a gun is becoming even more important to everyone
I include around the house too.
I’m originally from Connecticut. I remember the Petit home invasion case.
Now add all the crime and all the no bail laws. Carrying a gun is becoming even more important to everyone
Who am I to second guess another's decision in this situation. I have been in violent altercations and they did not go as I had envisioned. Luckily I survived and have that experience to lean on making decisions moving forward.
No one can say how they would act with absolute certainty until they are thrust into these types of situations.
No one can say how they would act with absolute certainty until they are thrust into these types of situations.
Keystone19250
SAINT
Originally from Connecticut also, grew up in West Hartford, lived in CT for 54 years, now living in Kentucky. What part of CT did you live in?
Welcome to the forum.
Keystone19250
SAINT
I’ve discussed before my experience in being involved in a situation and having to draw my gun, because I was paying attention I was aware of the threat before it became evident I was being targeted and by being armed and letting those two thugs know I was not going down without a fight led them to change their minds and leave.
Situational awareness.
Training and practice.
And having a mind set of not going to be a victim.
I don’t consider myself lucky, I am proud of my ability to recognize a threat early enough and act accordingly.
youngolddude
Professional
In the original poster's description, yes, the guy lucked out and $100 was cheaper than a defense attorney. But what if the guy took his wallet and his life? You didn't know the outcome until it happened, so yeah, you can armchair quarterback this and say he did the right thing. I would just rather not let my life hang in the balance dealing with thugs. YMMV
wmg1299
Professional
I wish it weren't true, but I fully agree with you. The only people who have ever been happy with their decision to hand over their money during a robbery are those who survived the encounter.
I had a good friend in high school who was working at a local store when it was robbed. All of the employees complied with the robbers' demands and handed over everything they asked for. The robbers then proceeded to kill 2 of the 3 employees (one only survived due to rapid medical attention and was left with life-long injuries).
This was in the 90's, but I believe that it is more common today. I became a street cop several decades ago. By the time I left I had already noticed that there is a level of hatred present in modern teenage criminals that used to be rare. This breed of criminal wants money and jewelry, but they also genuinely want to terrify and hurt their victims.
One of the top stories on the Daily Wire this morning was titled, "Horrifying Security Camera Footage Shows Robber 'Executed' a 'Very Gracious' Store Clerk". Just because you are not willing to kill someone over $100, do not assume that your attacker feels the same way.
Ranger715
Elite
The difficult truth is that there is no course of action which guarantees a good outcome once you encounter one of these miscreants. If you comply submissively to avoid trouble, they might hurt you anyway, or not. If you try to fight back, armed or otherwise, you might prevail, or not. If you prevail, the legal system might devour you, or not. The best you can do is be prepared, size up your situation as calmly as possible, and decide how to respond, understanding you will have to justify whatever force you may use.
I think the main point of the article is that you need to have conviction and resolve, paired with knowledge and skill, if you're going to contemplate carrying a firearm for defense. When the excrement hits the oscillator there's no time to sort things out. Swift, decisive action wins the day, usually.
I think the main point of the article is that you need to have conviction and resolve, paired with knowledge and skill, if you're going to contemplate carrying a firearm for defense. When the excrement hits the oscillator there's no time to sort things out. Swift, decisive action wins the day, usually.
MAL
Alpha
I’m a divorced guy who admittedly has trust issues with people that are close to me…so I can’t fathom trusting someone who is robbing me. If you are willing to threaten me and violate my rights, I have no issue at all shooting you dead. Beyond that, those that violate my rights will do so again to someone else, and the outcome could be different. Drawing and pulling the trigger solves my problem, as well as those who would be personally imagine acted in the future. It is black and white to me.
HansGruber
Ronin
MAL
Alpha
Don't recall asking you for anything, my friend, least of all your useless opinion.