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Why 10mm Auto Was a Total Disaster for the FBI

cool read
when we lived in jacksonville fl many moons ago
the deputies all had switched to 10mm.
it was a sticky wicket for long time
they concluded the same as fbi
it was not what they needed for the job
also switched to .40 cal
glocks and other brands as officers purchased their own sidearms
in our classes with them , at the officers academy taught so many qualification shoots had to be head shots for longest time
they eventually dropped that to the center mass STOP the perp philosophy that didnt send stray bullets flying all around
they also had a state of the art video shoot room where your pistol was tied to a computer and kicked etc and roan out of bullets like real life, yet put you scenarios of real bad guys ...it was freaking very close to REAL life
even the kicks in your vest when you got shot by bad guy,

you know who fixed the issue
the new sheriff nat glover......a former FBI guy
he was a top notch leo..
 
rcurtner said:
Thanks, long but good read.
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The article is basically a transcript of the video that is also included. I watched this a few days ago (figured I’d let @Annihilator post it 😬), and I usually watch the Chris Baker’s videos when Lucky Gunner posts these video/articles. I guess I’m more a watching type than a reader. But I agree, it was very informative rcurtner.
 
I was always impressed with the 10 and liked the Delta Elite. Recoil is certainly no worse than a .357 and it blows a nice big hole in the target. I never did get the whole “recoil” issue. Downloading to the 10 lite gave a .40 S&W performance but if MY butt was on the line I’d a lot rather have full boat ammo. One has to wonder about a 10mm bullet designed specifically as an anti personnel round so that it would dump 100% of its energy in 14” or so…
 
Shibadog said:
I was always impressed with the 10 and liked the Delta Elite. Recoil is certainly no worse than a .357 and it blows a nice big hole in the target. I never did get the whole “recoil” issue. Downloading to the 10 lite gave a .40 S&W performance but if MY butt was on the line I’d a lot rather have full boat ammo. One has to wonder about a 10mm bullet designed specifically as an anti personnel round so that it would dump 100% of its energy in 14” or so…
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The problem was full power 10mm is a lot and as Hilton Yam stated ina. Video (link below) nobody is gonna like shooting it in a 1,000 round 2 day class. AND the size and weight of the gun makes it not user friendly unless you have large hands.

I was around in LE when 10mm came out and a couple agemcies in Montana did Glock 29’s (I think Yellowstone County might still run it)

What many have learned while the 357 is a great round many agencies (Indianapolis PD used 125 SJHP) had great success with both 2 1/2” amd 4” that 125 grain 357 was doing 1,400-1,450 in 4” and about 1,200 in 2 1/2”. The shootings with the 2 1/2” was just as effective.

So a good quality 9mm 124 gr JHP runs 1,200 FPS there is no reduction in stopping power shot for shot in the same place. You’re just giving up the blast to get there.

Look at all the main duty rounds 124 Gold Dot and HST or 135 Critical Duty they are all dropping bad guys from agemcies that use them. Indy OD uses 124 HST and they have a whole YouTube channel they post their shootings on you can see how well it works (IMPDTV)

Hilton Yam touches on the 10mm at the 9:18 mark but the whole video is pretty good on the Miami FBI shooting most here will find interesting. Always liked Mr Yam’s 10-8 channel and how he explaines stuff. Class act

 
ECS686 said:
The problem was full power 10mm is a lot and as Hilton Yam stated ina. Video (link below) nobody is gonna like shooting it in a 1,000 round 2 day class. AND the size and weight of the gun makes it not user friendly unless you have large hands.

I was around in LE when 10mm came out and a couple agemcies in Montana did Glock 29’s (I think Yellowstone County might still run it)

What many have learned while the 357 is a great round many agencies (Indianapolis PD used 125 SJHP) had great success with both 2 1/2” amd 4” that 125 grain 357 was doing 1,400-1,450 in 4” and about 1,200 in 2 1/2”. The shootings with the 2 1/2” was just as effective.

So a good quality 9mm 124 gr JHP runs 1,200 FPS there is no reduction in stopping power shot for shot in the same place. You’re just giving up the blast to get there.

Look at all the main duty rounds 124 Gold Dot and HST or 135 Critical Duty they are all dropping bad guys from agemcies that use them. Indy OD uses 124 HST and they have a whole YouTube channel they post their shootings on you can see how well it works (IMPDTV)

Hilton Yam touches on the 10mm at the 9:18 mark but the whole video is pretty good on the Miami FBI shooting most here will find interesting. Always liked Mr Yam’s 10-8 channel and how he explaines stuff. Class act

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stated ina……🤔🤔

IMG_3822.jpeg
 
HansGruber said:
The first models weren’t that bad—pretty much a Glock with a more comfortable grip.

It was after the lawsuit when S&W had to de-Glockify them that they got crappy.
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The newer SD9VE (or SD40VE)
From as&W often get confused with the Sigma they are 2 totally different firearms.

The SD VE series is one of the most underrated handguns around. People often suggest the Stoegers STR9 as a fire extinguisher gun the SD VE series is the American made version that is not much more.

Before my time the Sheriffs Department I am now a school deputy with around 1994/5 adopted the 40 Sigma when they wanted to move from S&W 5906 to the new hotness 40. They had them for like 6 months and then went to Glock 40 cals

The Sigma the first Gen 380 Bodyguard were about the 2 worst designed handguns S&W ever out out
 
ECS686 said:
The newer SD9VE (or SD40VE)
From as&W often get confused with the Sigma they are 2 totally different firearms.

The SD VE series is one of the most underrated handguns around. People often suggest the Stoegers STR9 as a fire extinguisher gun the SD VE series is the American made version that is not much more.

Before my time the Sheriffs Department I am now a school deputy with around 1994/5 adopted the 40 Sigma when they wanted to move from S&W 5906 to the new hotness 40. They had them for like 6 months and then went to Glock 40 cals

The Sigma the first Gen 380 Bodyguard were about the 2 worst designed handguns S&W ever out out
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I like the SDVE pistols had one in .40, very good pistol, on the Sigma, when I was still working at my sheriffs deputy, a deputy was cleaning his sigma and got gun scrubber on the polymer frame, didn’t end good, ate the frame, but the Sigma grip wasn’t to bad actually
 
HansGruber said:
View attachment 75746

And I am a fan of my 1076; it’s my last 10mm.
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Very sought after. I believe S&W was sued by SIG as well but over the decocking mechanism in the 5926,4026 1076 and 45 model. Apparently it was too close to SIGs patent so they were only made for a couple years.

I know the first batch is CHP 49’s we’re frame decocker a then subsequent models were 4006 but the slide mounted lever was a decock only.

Would love S&W to release the 3rd Gen series again with the slide decocker great guns!
 
az4783054 said:
wonder if fbi dei policies hiring played any part in the 10mm failure?
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Uhhh NO.

Watch the 10-8 video I put a link to in an earlier post by Hilton Yam. Mr Yam was an FBI agent on an FBI SWAT team and knows a lot of inside FBI firearms stuff and addresses it.

As a Federal and state agency firearms instructor myself I have seen a lot of “manly men” not be worth a poop at firearms before agencies watered down courses so the have benefited too!

FBI had great folks running their firearms programs in 1990 era
 
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