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XD Mod.2 Subcompact - Showing some age?

Mr. Untactical

Master Class
Founding Member
My Springfield XD Mod.2 subcompact has been my EDC for at least a couple of years (if not longer). Range trips were great because I never experienced any failures to load, fire, or eject. It was a solid 100% platform - which is why it made a great EDC.

I really don't know how many rounds I have through it at this point; it's likely close to 1,000 or more. I've fed it everything from steel cased FMJ to Speer Gold Dots and everything in between. However, on my most recent range trip I had multiple instances of the slide not locking back on empty and at least 1 failure to eject - meaning the spent case got caught in the slide before it could eject all the way.

I'm thinking I need to drop it off at the local gunsmith for a little maintenance, but wanted to poll the forum and ask are there specific parts that I need to focus on? Frankly, I'd like to keep carrying this gun because it's been such a standout and I haven't found anything else at this size that I shoot as well.

So, what does everyone think? Does she just need a little tune-up/TLC or is this a slippery slope to "time to get another gun"?

Thanks in advance for words of wisdom. (y)
 
The Mod.2 STILL IS a solid platform! 1,000 rounds and you're wondering if it needs to be replaced? Yikes! Have you cleaned it? What kind of ammo were you shooting? In all the ammo shortages, there have been far more known issues with ammo malfunctioning. Maybe your mag needs cleaned or that mag spring has weakened. I still have a mod 2 sc as a winter carry gun and it has far more than 1,000 rounds without issue. I put over 200 rounds through her in a day of training. I mean, it is possible something has gone wrong with your firearm, but I would look at more common things first. JMHO.
 
The Mod.2 STILL IS a solid platform! 1,000 rounds and you're wondering if it needs to be replaced? Yikes! Have you cleaned it? What kind of ammo were you shooting? In all the ammo shortages, there have been far more known issues with ammo malfunctioning. Maybe your mag needs cleaned or that mag spring has weakened. I still have a mod 2 sc as a winter carry gun and it has far more than 1,000 rounds without issue. I put over 200 rounds through her in a day of training. I mean, it is possible something has gone wrong with your firearm, but I would look at more common things first. JMHO.
I'm saying it doesn’t need to be replaced; just looking for thoughts on what could cause the failures and - yes - it gets cleaned after every range trip! Ammo is new, generally Fiocchi or S&B 115 FMJ, although I do run some defense through it as well. The only ammo I've ever had issues with prior to this is +P and Blazer brass. Round count could be higher - probably closer to 2K, but I don't keep a running tally.
 
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I'm saying it needs to be replaced; just looking for thoughts on what could cause the failures and - yes - it gets cleaned after every range trip! Ammo is new, generally Fiocchi or S&B 115 FMJ, although I do run some defense through it as well. The only ammo I've ever had issues with prior to this is +P and Blazer brass. Round count could be higher - probably closer to 2K, but I don't keep a running tally.
Even at 2-3 thousand rounds the gun should be ok. My suggestion is two fold, look around for a gunsmith in your area and see if he can look it over, maybe something is wrong that you can’t see,
Next if you bought the gun new and registered the gun with Springfield Armory for the warranty give Springfield a call to see what they may be able to do as far as an inspection and possible warranty repair.
 
Even at 2-3 thousand rounds the gun should be ok. My suggestion is two fold, look around for a gunsmith in your area and see if he can look it over, maybe something is wrong that you can’t see,
Next if you bought the gun new and registered the gun with Springfield Armory for the warranty give Springfield a call to see what they may be able to do as far as an inspection and possible warranty repair.
Thanks for the guidance. As an aside, that last comment of mine should've read, "I'm NOT saying it needs to be replaced..."
 
I'm saying it needs to be replaced; just looking for thoughts on what could cause the failures and - yes - it gets cleaned after every range trip! Ammo is new, generally Fiocchi or S&B 115 FMJ, although I do run some defense through it as well. The only ammo I've ever had issues with prior to this is +P and Blazer brass. Round count could be higher - probably closer to 2K, but I don't keep a running tally.
I’d say you’re still running fine if there’s no malfunctions other than specific-ammo related.

Probably consider replacing your recoil & striker spring in the next 1-2k rounds, but it's nothing urgent unless you start seeing regular malfunctions.
 
Thanks for the tag-in, @HansGruber . :)

@Mr. Untactical , truthfully, most modern duty/service/defensive-grade auto pistols can very well tolerate thousands of rounds' worth of carbon-fouling in-between even just a cursory field-cleaning, if-only they were kept well-lubricated.
With my two range/training XDm9s - one a 4.5-inch and the other a 3.8 Compact - I routinely let them go thousands of rounds without cleaning...I just keep adding lube. 😅 Even then, I only rarely see stoppages.

^ ...this post should give you an idea of what I'm usually looking at, as I pack up my training guns for classes or range outings.

As for age/round-count of these beaters?

The 4.5-inch was purchased second-hand from a good friend of mine, Q4, 2010. It's now got well over 55,000 live-fire rounds on it (my friend put about 300 rounds through it before he sold it to me). I wrote about it briefly in the "Strayer 40K 'Blue Flame'" thread - https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/strayers-40k-blue-flame.204/#post-5192

The 3.8 Compact that's pictured in the cleaning thread was purchased new in Q3, 2011, and currently has around 25,000 live-fire rounds on it. Its EDC counterpart, which I purchased a half-year earlier has around 13,000 live-fire rounds on it.

-----

Usually, the primary suspects for a pistol that had until-that-point been consistent and reliable are (1) ammo and (2) magazine(s).

If on this particular range trip where you experienced the repeated stoppages you were using reloads, remanufactured ammo, or even just factory-new ammo which you've otherwise haven't tried in your gun before (and are known to produce reliable function in your specific firearm - i.e. the XD Mod2 SC that bears your gun's unique serial number), then the first thing to try would be ammo with which you'd already vetted and know, without a single doubt, that functions your gun reliably.

The reason for this is simple: tolerance stacking. Even with the exacting nature of modern manufacturing practices, tolerances can stack just right and produce a final system which suffers from otherwise unexpected glitches. And towards this, it's universally agreed that if an otherwise reliable weapon simply doesn't function well with just a few specific makes/models of ammo, it's not that the weapon is unreliable - it's just that the end-user should take care to avoid those specific ammo. ;)

If on the other hand you *are* using known/proven/vetted-for-your-unique-gun ammo and you're still seeing extraction and/or ejection problems, the next branch in your troubleshooting tree should immediately be the gun's magazine, if that gun is magazine-fed.

Of all the areas of a modern autoloading pistol that's magazine-fed, the magazine is perhaps the single biggest weakness of the system. Here, anything from the feed-lips to the magazine's body to its follower to how it locks-up in the gun (i.e. whether the magazine catch/release is properly interfacing with that magazine) can potentially be points where we'll need to troubleshoot. However, oftentimes, it's just that the magazine spring has somehow reached the end of its durable lifespan - and a change to a new one (factory or aftermarket) will restore reliable function to not only that magazine, but also the weapon itself.

Early double-stack XD-platform magazines were noted to be problematic (feed-lips and body), but modern XD and XDm magazines have typically fared very well, even when exposed to the rigors of routine competition or training-class use/abuse. My latest thoughts on this topic can be seen on the XDTalk Forums: https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/xd-magazine-feed-issue.453131/ - my screen-name there is the same as it is here, and my replies' in- and out-links should help provide you both an idea of the framework from which I've come to this conclusion, as well as hopefully give you an idea of how you may want to go about remediation for any magazine-related issues.

Before you start actual troubleshooting of the magazine(s), I would first ask that you be sure to (relatively) permanently number or otherwise uniquely identify -EACH- of your magazines. This way, any problems you may encounter can immediately be associated to - with relative certainty - (a) certain magazine(s).

And towards your specific problems noted, one item that caught my eye was that you mentioned you experienced several instances where the magazine failed to lock-back on-empty. While this certainly can be caused by a weak[ening] magazine spring, in order to have full accountability in the troubleshooting, we *_MUST_* take the shooter out of it as much as possible. Here, if you are a right handed shooter, I would like for you to first approach troubleshooting by using the same ammo and magazines that you'd used when you experienced problems, but to shoot the gun single-handed, using only your LEFT hand. The idea with this single, simple, step in troubleshooting is to eliminate the possibility that it is *somehow* either your dominant (right) hand's thumb overriding the slide catch/release or that your support hand (in a two-handed, "freestyle," grip) is somehow interfering with that control surface.

If your gun reliably locks-back on last-round when you're shooting left-hand-only but sees early lock-back of the slide when you're using either both hands or just your right hand, it is more than likely that the root-cause of the issue is simply you.

Should the gun successfully pass this troubleshooting and you're still seeing issues, it is possible that your magazine spring(s) were defective from-the-factory (likely either material issues or a failure of heat-treat or even coiling), causing it to experience a drastically truncated service-life (you can see from the post that I reference above just how many cycles - and for how long - that I'd used my magazines before their factory springs gave up the ghost ;) ). Mechanical/physical reasons make the smaller "Subcompact" autopistols a bit more harsh on their wear components, and typically, mean-time-to-failure is shorter, versus their bigger counterparts. With the magazine spring - even though that same magazine (let's say here that you're using a full-capacity magazine, not the truncated magazines designed especially for the smaller pistol, to enhance concealment for the weapon) can consistently and reliably function in a full-sized version of that platform, that "leeway," if you will, is cut down when you're using that same magazine in the smaller pistol of the platform - where you'll see problems happen, sooner/faster.

^ Here, if you'll look at what I'd written in that old M4Carbine.net thread that I'd out-linked to in the thread cited above, you'll see that I'd written about this seemingly accelerated manifestation:

TSiWRX on M4Carbine.net said:
....At a low-light class last month, I had several instances of failure-to-lock-back-on-empty. I initially attributed this to my right thumb possibly holding down the slide stop - a problem I've battled on-and-off over the course of the last few years - but as I checked my equipment after the class, I noticed that 5 of the 6 practice magazines...failed to...consistently positively push the slide-stop all the way up into the detent of my two 3.8 Compacts. Sometimes it would catch enough of the detent to effect lock-up, but more often than not, it just didn't go up far enough. One of the 6 remained viable (and I know from its ID number that it's my least used one). All 6 magazines continued to be able push the slide-stop up just enough to catch the detent on my 4.5-inch XDm9, if only barely. Regardless - 70K rounds spread through them, ~5 years. I thought it was about time.....

I hope this gives you enough to start your troubleshooting. @Mr. Untactical ! :)

If it is the magazine(s), I'd encourage you to both purchase new replacements as-well-as pursue remediation for any that are problematic.

Provided that you live in a free state, currently, magazines can be had for very good prices. Since magazines are really the one "disposable" part of our autopistols -and is one of its greatest weaknesses- it really only makes sense that we have some backups readily available. If the pistol is used for or is intended for a serious purpose, this would doubly make sense. Larry Vickers himself recommends no less than five (5) vetted/proven magazines for each defensive/duty weapon.

And yes, I have put my money where my mouth is. where it comes to magazines for my XDms -

1645843905473.png


^ 13-rounders for my 3.8 compact.

1645843929293.png


^ 19-rounders for the full-size guns...yes. there's a row under that top 10.

....and remember that I've got another 15+ of the 19-rounders in active-use.

Even the new 35-rounders: https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/xdm-9mm-35-rd-mag-initial-report.10081/#post-133759 :)

Buy them cheap. Stack them deep.


-----


And absolutely keep a running tally of the mileage that your guns have seen.

It's just like the mileage on your car - how else would you know how much/hard it's been used? ;)

Some folks go so far as to keep track of every single round fired - I don't (yet) have any guns that requires that much attention. but I do try to ballpark mine by every 500 rounds or so.

It's not only a great way to troubleshoot, but also gives you an idea of the type of preventative maintenance you might need to do.
 
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Thanks for the tag-in, @HansGruber . :)

@Mr. Untactical , truthfully, most modern duty/service/defensive-grade auto pistols can very well tolerate thousands of rounds' worth of carbon-fouling in-between even just a cursory field-cleaning, if-only they were kept well-lubricated.
With my two range/training XDm9s - one a 4.5-inch and the other a 3.8 Compact - I routinely let them go thousands of rounds without cleaning...I just keep adding lube. 😅 Even then, I only rarely see stoppages.

^ ...this post should give you an idea of what I'm usually looking at, as I pack up my training guns for classes or range outings.

As for age/round-count of these beaters?

The 4.5-inch was purchased second-hand from a good friend of mine, Q4, 2010. It's now got well over 55,000 live-fire rounds on it (my friend put about 300 rounds through it before he sold it to me). I wrote about it briefly in the "Strayer 40K 'Blue Flame'" thread - https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/strayers-40k-blue-flame.204/#post-5192

The 3.8 Compact that's pictured in the cleaning thread was purchased new in Q3, 2011, and currently has around 25,000 live-fire rounds on it. Its EDC counterpart, which I purchased a half-year earlier has around 13,000 live-fire rounds on it.

-----

Usually, the primary suspects for a pistol that had until-that-point been consistent and reliable are (1) ammo and (2) magazine(s).

If on this particular range trip where you experienced the repeated stoppages you were using reloads, remanufactured ammo, or even just factory-new ammo which you've otherwise haven't tried in your gun before (and are known to produce reliable function in your specific firearm - i.e. the XD Mod2 SC that bears your gun's unique serial number), then the first thing to try would be ammo with which you'd already vetted and know, without a single doubt, that functions your gun reliably.

The reason for this is simple: tolerance stacking. Even with the exacting nature of modern manufacturing practices, tolerances can stack just right and produce a final system which suffers from otherwise unexpected glitches. And towards this, it's universally agreed that if an otherwise reliable weapon simply doesn't function well with just a few specific makes/models of ammo, it's not that the weapon is unreliable - it's just that the end-user should take care to avoid those specific ammo. ;)

If on the other hand you *are* using known/proven/vetted-for-your-unique-gun ammo and you're still seeing extraction and/or ejection problems, the next branch in your troubleshooting tree should immediately be the gun's magazine, if that gun is magazine-fed.

Of all the areas of a modern autoloading pistol that's magazine-fed, the magazine is perhaps the single biggest weakness of the system. Here, anything from the feed-lips to the magazine's body to its follower to how it locks-up in the gun (i.e. whether the magazine catch/release is properly interfacing with that magazine) can potentially be points where we'll need to troubleshoot. However, oftentimes, it's just that the magazine spring has somehow reached the end of its durable lifespan - and a change to a new one (factory or aftermarket) will restore reliable function to not only that magazine, but also the weapon itself.

Early double-stack XD-platform magazines were noted to be problematic (feed-lips and body), but modern XD and XDm magazines have typically fared very well, even when exposed to the rigors of routine competition or training-class use/abuse. My latest thoughts on this topic can be seen on the XDTalk Forums: https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/xd-magazine-feed-issue.453131/ - my screen-name there is the same as it is here, and my replies' in- and out-links should help provide you both an idea of the framework from which I've come to this conclusion, as well as hopefully give you an idea of how you may want to go about remediation for any magazine-related issues.

Before you start actual troubleshooting of the magazine(s), I would first ask that you be sure to (relatively) permanently number or otherwise uniquely identify -EACH- of your magazines. This way, any problems you may encounter can immediately be associated to - with relative certainty - (a) certain magazine(s).

And towards your specific problems noted, one item that caught my eye was that you mentioned you experienced several instances where the magazine failed to lock-back on-empty. While this certainly can be caused by a weak[ening] magazine spring, in order to have full accountability in the troubleshooting, we *_MUST_* take the shooter out of it as much as possible. Here, if you are a right handed shooter, I would like for you to first approach troubleshooting by using the same ammo and magazines that you'd used when you experienced problems, but to shoot the gun single-handed, using only your LEFT hand. The idea with this single, simple, step in troubleshooting is to eliminate the possibility that it is *somehow* either your dominant (right) hand's thumb overriding the slide catch/release or that your support hand (in a two-handed, "freestyle," grip) is somehow interfering with that control surface.

If your gun reliably locks-back on last-round when you're shooting left-hand-only but sees early lock-back of the slide when you're using either both hands or just your right hand, it is more than likely that the root-cause of the issue is simply you.

Should the gun successfully pass this troubleshooting and you're still seeing issues, it is possible that your magazine spring(s) were defective from-the-factory (likely either material issues or a failure of heat-treat or even coiling), causing it to experience a drastically truncated service-life (you can see from the post that I reference above just how many cycles - and for how long - that I'd used my magazines before their factory springs gave up the ghost ;) ). Mechanical/physical reasons make the smaller "Subcompact" autopistols a bit more harsh on their wear components, and typically, mean-time-to-failure is shorter, versus their bigger counterparts. With the magazine spring - even though that same magazine (let's say here that you're using a full-capacity magazine, not the truncated magazines designed especially for the smaller pistol, to enhance concealment for the weapon) can consistently and reliably function in a full-sized version of that platform, that "leeway," if you will, is cut down when you're using that same magazine in the smaller pistol of the platform - where you'll see problems happen, sooner/faster.

^ Here, if you'll look at what I'd written in that old M4Carbine.net thread that I'd out-linked to in the thread cited above, you'll see that I'd written about this seemingly accelerated manifestation:



I hope this gives you enough to start your troubleshooting. @Mr. Untactical ! :)

If it is the magazine(s), I'd encourage you to both purchase new replacements as-well-as pursue remediation for any that are problematic.

Provided that you live in a free state, currently, magazines can be had for very good prices. Since magazines are really the one "disposable" part of our autopistols -and is one of its greatest weaknesses- it really only makes sense that we have some backups readily available. If the pistol is used for or is intended for a serious purpose, this would doubly make sense. Larry Vickers himself recommends no less than five (5) vetted/proven magazines for each defensive/duty weapon.

And yes, I have put my money where my mouth is. where it comes to magazines for my XDms -

View attachment 25122

^ 13-rounders for my 3.8 compact.

View attachment 25123

^ 19-rounders for the full-size guns...yes. there's a row under that top 10.

....and remember that I've got another 15+ of the 19-rounders in active-use.

Even the new 35-rounders: https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/xdm-9mm-35-rd-mag-initial-report.10081/#post-133759 :)

Buy them cheap. Stack them deep.


-----


And absolutely keep a running tally of the mileage that your guns have seen.

It's just like the mileage on your car - how else would you know how much/hard it's been used? ;)

Some folks go so far as to keep track of every single round fired - I don't (yet) have any guns that requires that much attention. but I do try to ballpark mine by every 500 rounds or so.

It's not only a great way to troubleshoot, but also gives you an idea of the type of preventative maintenance you might need to do.


I was going to say the exact same thing ( clearly not word for word. :) ) Ammo and magazines.
 
[Message text truncated due to forum limits...]

Usually, the primary suspects for a pistol that had until-that-point been consistent and reliable are (1) ammo and (2) magazine(s).

If on this particular range trip where you experienced the repeated stoppages you were using reloads, remanufactured ammo, or even just factory-new ammo which you've otherwise haven't tried in your gun before (and are known to produce reliable function in your specific firearm - i.e. the XD Mod2 SC that bears your gun's unique serial number), then the first thing to try would be ammo with which you'd already vetted and know, without a single doubt, that functions your gun reliably.

The reason for this is simple: tolerance stacking. Even with the exacting nature of modern manufacturing practices, tolerances can stack just right and produce a final system which suffers from otherwise unexpected glitches. And towards this, it's universally agreed that if an otherwise reliable weapon simply doesn't function well with just a few specific makes/models of ammo, it's not that the weapon is unreliable - i


And absolutely keep a running tally of the mileage that your guns have seen.

It's just like the mileage on your car - how else would you know how much/hard it's been used? ;)

Some folks go so far as to keep track of every single round fired - I don't (yet) have any guns that requires that much attention. but I do try to ballpark mine by every 500 rounds or so.

It's not only a great way to troubleshoot, but also gives you an idea of the type of preventative maintenance you might need to do.
I can't thank you enough for this comprehensive response! You've restored my faith in the forum platform. (y)

Honestly, since the XD Mod.2 subcompact has been SO reliable since we purchased (about three years ago), I am tending toward ammo. Although magazines are something to check, for sure. I only have three at the moment - 2 flush and 1 extended. Generally I only shoot with the flush mags, since that's what I carry, but do rotate in the extended mag from time to time. I will definitely mark them (as well as those for my other pistols) and try harder to keep track of the round count.

I'm leaning toward ammo mainly because of the pressure on that segment of the market we've seen during the pandemic. Ammo manufacturers have been churning out rounds as fast as they can and it's only natural that some decrease in QA would occur. Pre-pandemic, I used Fiocchi and S&B exclusively and never had any failures of any kind. Since the pandemic - out of necessity - I've widened the net regarding ammo brands and that could very well be a major factor.

I also have an XDM Elite Tactical OSP (with the 22-round mags) and shot it during the same range session. Ammo mix would've been the same, but, as you say, the XDM could just tolerate some ammo better than the XD Mod.2 subcompact. Which leads me to the next point (the one no one wants to admit): is it me?

With the XD Mod.2 subcompact (and all of my other pistols - with one exception I'll harp on in a bit), I've always used a thumbs forward two-handed grip and never had any issues with slides not locking back on empty. Even though my right thumb is definitely in the ballpark of the slide stop, it just never seemed to be an issue before.

This all changed when I bought a Hellcat OSP. I experienced intermittent slide not locking back issues to the point where I returned it to Springfield. They sent it back with a note reading, "No problem found." Of course, that lead to me analyzing my grip and - apparently - on the micro compact Hellcat, my right thumb WAS interfering with the slide stop. What to do? I could change my grip and move my right thumb into more of an overlapping position on my support hand - or - just sell the Hellcat and give it up as not for me and use the money to get something else.

I've been shooting with the thumbs forward grip forever and I am not excited about going through the repetitions required to ingrain a new grip until it's unconscious. I am experimenting with it, but I've trained with the thumbs forward grip for so long that a different grip feels completely "wrong." Besides that, I am selling the Hellcat anyway because it's just not what I expected it to be. I can shoot it fairly well, but it's snappy as heck and much more uncomfortable to carry than the XD Mod.2 subcompact. I originally bought the Hellcat to use as an option when I needed something a little more streamlined, but maybe micro compacts just aren't for me? I digress.

I will be hitting the range again soon and will incorporate the mag labeling, try the off-hand shooting test, and pay more attention to a) what ammo is in use when/if any failure occurs and b) how my strong-hand thumb is positioned during 2-handed shooting.

Again, many thanks for taking the time to really consider and answer my query. You're a star!
 
TsiWRx nailed it here! A large percentage of weapons' failures can be attributed to magazines. I was also going to suggest the possibility that grip was the cause of the slide not locking back. Maybe since the gun is getting 'broke in" it is easier for a malfunction from riding that slide lock, whereas when the gun was still new and super tight, it wouldn't have caused a malfunction. Just a thought.
 
So let me say this honestly, with all the guns 90% Springfield I’ve NEVER had any issues caused by bad magazines nor have I had any serious feed or fail to fire issues that I couldn’t explain other then being caused by me which I was able to identify quickly and correct.

That being said the two Savage AR10’s I had (now no longer own) where made,
MY OPINION using a flawed design.
 
TsiWRx nailed it here! A large percentage of weapons' failures can be attributed to magazines. I was also going to suggest the possibility that grip was the cause of the slide not locking back. Maybe since the gun is getting 'broke in" it is easier for a malfunction from riding that slide lock, whereas when the gun was still new and super tight, it wouldn't have caused a malfunction. Just a thought.
This is exactly what happened to me. As it wore in I started to notice I was just barely riding the slide lock and causing fte, out of battery, and stovepipes . At nearly the same time, I learned the “thumbs forward” grip. The problem stopped and my groupings got better, especially the fast shot groups. It was all me. Not saying that’s 100% the OP’s problem but having a RSO fire it will easily clear up that question. If it’s still acting up, I’d certainly send it to Springfield, unless you’re looking to start a relationship with a smith.

Btb- I put 1000 rounds through it before I ever cleaned it, I like to torture test my edcs, and had 7500 before I changed out the recoil assembly. These things are tanks.
 
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I can't thank you enough for this comprehensive response! You've restored my faith in the forum platform. (y)

No need to thank me - I'm just happy to help another Forum member - and fellow XD-platform shooter. :)

As for restoring faith in forum platforms....I can probably only reaffirm the feeling of some that these longer reads are a great solution to their insomnia! 😅


Honestly, since the XD Mod.2 subcompact has been SO reliable since we purchased (about three years ago), I am tending toward ammo. Although magazines are something to check, for sure. I only have three at the moment - 2 flush and 1 extended. Generally I only shoot with the flush mags, since that's what I carry, but do rotate in the extended mag from time to time. I will definitely mark them (as well as those for my other pistols) and try harder to keep track of the round count.

I'm leaning toward ammo mainly because of the pressure on that segment of the market we've seen during the pandemic. Ammo manufacturers have been churning out rounds as fast as they can and it's only natural that some decrease in QA would occur. Pre-pandemic, I used Fiocchi and S&B exclusively and never had any failures of any kind. Since the pandemic - out of necessity - I've widened the net regarding ammo brands and that could very well be a major factor.

Definitely, range-fodder-grade ammo manufactured during the second half of any such shortages/crazes is suspect. Even from our trusted manufacturers/sources, the inevitable math is just that. This factor alone should prompt those who haven't kept better records to really think twice about doing so.

When I first started, I'd read about and was convinced of the benefits of consolidating my ammo to as few calibers as possible. It wasn't until I'd read an article by Massad Ayoob - where he questioned the thought that it's too much to ask for shooters to keep track of different ammo as a purely administrative task - that I started re-thinking the former approach. One of the items that was mentioned (and here, I honestly can't remember if it was Ayoob who'd suggested this or another shooter that I'd discussed this with, so I will simply credit both parties! (y) ) was to keep a reasonably detailed log of the ammo that one shoots in their firearms, if for no other reason than to track what ammo works well (in terms of external ballistics, subjective shooter assessment of blast/recoil, and also most importantly reliable functioning).

Towards this -

I also have an XDM Elite Tactical OSP (with the 22-round mags) and shot it during the same range session. Ammo mix would've been the same, but, as you say, the XDM could just tolerate some ammo better than the XD Mod.2 subcompact. Which leads me to the next point (the one no one wants to admit): is it me?

I'm one of those weird people who wear the same clothes all the time. I wish I look like Idris Elba, but alas, the only thing I can actually emulate from his lifestyle is wardrobe construct 😅 :ROFLMAO: -

1645892737875.png

^ This shot of his closet was from an episode where he was getting investigated by his fellow detectives. Upon opening his closet, one of the detectives turns to his partner and asks "What does a wardrobe like this suggest about a man?"

For me, consistency is almost magical. It's -quite honestly- a salve that I can depend on even under the worst times of stress. So, for me, it probably comes as no surprise that I do the same with my defensive firearms. As you read in my post above, for my EDC handgun, I maintain a near-carbon-copy (the only difference is the aesthetics of the slide) for training/range use.

1645893007442.png


I've made some changes to the holster, but otherwise, I think this picture demonstrates what I mean above. Left to right on my daughter's piano bench: airsoft, range/training beater, EDC XDm9 3.8 Compact.

I don't believe I mentioned above that I also had a second copy of my 4.5-inch beater, the one that's got a hard won 55K+ rounds on it (see how I've rounded this figure? and that I've at-times myself lost track? 😅 - https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/new-xdm9-from-cleveland-poa-poi-magazine-questions.163960/ - this is what I meant by "reasonable" records: it doesn't need to be obsessively perfect, it just needs to reasonably suit your purpose :giggle: ) - well, I do. 😁

All that (was to put you to sleep - it's nap time!) was to set up for this single sentence:

Would you believe it that EACH of those four unique guns have their own preferences in terms of ammo? :oops:

EDC XDm9 3.8 Compact locks up to the point that it'll require mortaring when I perform "malfunction medley" drills with it using once-fired American Eagle brass. Its training/range copy? It could care less (which actually kinda sucks, as it makes it near-impossible to induce "spontaneous" stoppages that requires mortaring!). The same once-fired AE brass also works wonderfully in malfunction medley in both of my 4.5-inch XDm9s.

My main training/range-use 4.5-inch gun sadly won't reliably function 115 gr. Magtech (https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/your-favorite-brand-of-practice-ammo.442/#post-7256), which as many reading this thread probably know, has, particularly since the 2012-14 craze, been universally beloved by shooters CONUS. The copy of this gun that I keep for home-defense - and the two 3.8 Compacts? No issues. Step up to 124 gr. Magtech? Those cycling issues go away.

Overall, larger guns (of the same platform, with caliber kept as a constant as well) tend to be more tolerant of not just ammo selection, but virtually of all mechanical concerns. What I see occurring with my 4.5-inch guns usually takes only about 1/2 to 3/4 time to start raising its head with the 3.8 Compacts. FWIW, that little gun just "runs harder."

<snipped due to reply hitting 10K limit>
 
<part 2>

....Which leads me to the next point (the one no one wants to admit): is it me?

With the XD Mod.2 subcompact (and all of my other pistols - with one exception I'll harp on in a bit), I've always used a thumbs forward two-handed grip and never had any issues with slides not locking back on empty. Even though my right thumb is definitely in the ballpark of the slide stop, it just never seemed to be an issue before.

This all changed when I bought a Hellcat OSP. I experienced intermittent slide not locking back issues to the point where I returned it to Springfield. They sent it back with a note reading, "No problem found." Of course, that lead to me analyzing my grip and - apparently - on the micro compact Hellcat, my right thumb WAS interfering with the slide stop. What to do? I could change my grip and move my right thumb into more of an overlapping position on my support hand - or - just sell the Hellcat and give it up as not for me and use the money to get something else.

I've been shooting with the thumbs forward grip forever and I am not excited about going through the repetitions required to ingrain a new grip until it's unconscious. I am experimenting with it, but I've trained with the thumbs forward grip for so long that a different grip feels completely "wrong." Besides that, I am selling the Hellcat anyway because it's just not what I expected it to be. I can shoot it fairly well, but it's snappy as heck and much more uncomfortable to carry than the XD Mod.2 subcompact. I originally bought the Hellcat to use as an option when I needed something a little more streamlined, but maybe micro compacts just aren't for me? I digress.

That's a lot of great honesty in self-assessment, right there. (y)

The 3.8 Compact - and the XD SubCompact, which was my other alternative at the time I was shopping for a carry gun, back in Q4, 2010/Q1, 2011; I went with the 3.8 Compact because I would have wanted to send the XD SC out for grip texturing, and that most likely would have made it a wash price-wise between the two...and the XDm gave me two more rounds onboard) - is Goldilocks for me in terms of "the juice being worth the squeeze." While I also have a smaller single-stack alternative for the rare instances when the 3.8 Compact is just too big to successfully conceal, I think we're of the same mind where it comes to going smaller.

That "juice being worth the squeeze" phrase, in reference to the increasing effort required to successfully mitigate felt recoil in consecutively smaller iterations of what is otherwise the same gun (i.e. G17, G19, G26) was something picked up from DocGKR on M4Carbine.net, where he made the following post:

DocGKR on M4Carbine.net said:
In a timely coincidence, a very experienced senior SOF NCO who has slayed many of our Nation's foes and who has the distinction of having used 9mm, .40, and .45 ACP pistols in combat during various phases of his career wrote the following superb analysis discussing this very topic recently:
SOP source whom DocGKR interviewed said:
"Most of the guys on the G19 thread mentioned that they can handle the reduced size of the 19 and the recoil increase over the 17 is acceptable. Most of us have also determined that this does NOT cross over to the .40 cartridge. Guys with a firm handle on recoil manipulation can use the 22 and 35 with acceptable results. However when you go down to 26's and 23's, the juice is not worth the squeeze. The recoil is now noticably effecting times and it's measurable. If you can't effectively control recoil and are wasting time allowing your pistol to settle between shots then this is all a wash and means nothing to you, but if you can apply the fundamentals effectively you will quickly see that you can't run a sub compact 9 or a compact .40 worth a ****. So a decision to accept a larger pistol in order to have an acceptable recoil impulse based upon caliber must be made. The smallest 9mm Glock recoil that I will accept is the G19 and I will not go below the G22 when bumping up to .40."

^ When speaking of grip, many of us here - both you and me included, it would seem - favor the modern "thumbs forward" grip.

That said, there's a lot of differences in just how it's executed: https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/grip-this.257169/

In Vogel's class, his demonstration of his "thumbs forward grip" had his left thumb (he's right handed) riding so far forward that it was in-essence coming off the grip:

1645902118208.png

^ *image not mine, stolen from the Internet.

One of the things that he said in his class is that his grip often causes his slide to not lock back on-empty, but that given his shooting needs, the slide not locking back on-empty is not that important, and that he'd rather compromise that in order to get better recoil control, which *is* what's important to him.

So that gets us to where we are in our discussion...what is actually important to us, right? ;)

At one point, I experimented running my support hand more and more forward (as you can see via the "Grip This" thread link to XDTalk and its outlink to the DefensiveCarry.com thread, I really focused on the grip during my earlier days in the sport/hobby), "à la Vogel," if you will. While my split times dropped, I started to incur first the occasional failure of the slide to lock back on-empty, and eventually I got so far forward on the gun that I was occasionally causing the slide-stop to trigger, as the thenar eminence of my support hand interfaced in a manner so as to cause it to engage when the gun recoiled. While I debated with myself as to whether the former was an OK trade-off, the latter was of-course a non-starter, so I started to ratchet my support hand grip back a bit.

Meanwhile, with my dominant hand, my right thumb-tip is just long enough -with it riding above my support hand- to still occasionally trip into the slide-release and prevent reliable/consistent lock-back on-empty. Here, luckily, there was a hardware solution for my software problem: Springer Precision makes a redesigned slide-catch/release that is relieved specifically to increase clearance at this junction.

I bring up both of these embarrassing (for me) scenarios to show you that you're definitely far from alone - and furthermore, to also help you see that for those of us who aren't quite at the level of the Grandmasters and world- or other top-level champions that we're also often tweaking our techniques in the search for that next best thing. :) Furthermore, I am also hoping that you'll see via the DefensiveCarry.com Forum posts that the words "thumbs forward grip" is only a rough description of a technique that, in and of itself, carries wide-ranging implications and considerable variation in the details of just how it is accomplished. [ Take Vogel's grip, for-instance: What's often not cited about his grip is that he starts to build it via his back and chest muscles, all the way forward. It's not just how his hands look when they're on the gun, it's also just as much about how he applies pressure to his grip, including his unique "twist-lock" of the grip in his dominant hand. ]

I will be hitting the range again soon and will incorporate the mag labeling, try the off-hand shooting test, and pay more attention to a) what ammo is in use when/if any failure occurs and b) how my strong-hand thumb is positioned during 2-handed shooting.

Again, many thanks for taking the time to really consider and answer my query. You're a star!

Again, best of luck, and again, no thanks needed! :)
 
This is exactly what happened to me. As it wore in I started to notice I was just barely riding the slide lock and causing fte, out of battery, and stovepipes . At nearly the same time, I learned the “thumbs forward” grip. The problem stopped and my groupings got better, especially the fast shot groups. It was all me. Not saying that’s 100% the OP’s problem but having a RSO fire it will easily clear up that question. If it’s still acting up, I’d certainly send it to Springfield, unless you’re looking to start a relationship with a smith.

Btb- I put 1000 rounds through it before I ever cleaned it, I like to torture test my edcs, and had 7500 before I changed out the recoil assembly. These things are tanks.
One thing I believe I've learned so far in this discussion (among several) is that perhaps what I thought was a thumbs forward grip may not be? The image on the right (below) shows the right thumb in an overlap position (lying over the base of the support hand thumb):

Thumbs forward grip.png


On the contrary, my typical grip has the right thumb lying closely alongside the frame, more like this:

Thumbs forward grip (2).jpg


After double checking just now and gripping my XD Mod.2 subcompact with my standard grip, I can see where the right thumb being close to the slide could potentially interact with the slide stop in a way that might prevent the slide from locking open on empty. My "normal" thumbs-forward grip also puts my right thumb on or near the slide stop when when gripping the XDM Elite OSP Tactical. But, since that pistol is newer (and larger), perhaps I'm just not seeing the issue with it yet?

It looks like I'm going to need to push on with re-training to use the "more correct" thumbs forward grip, where my right thumb lies over the base of my support hand thumb.

Does that sound about right to the group?
 
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