testtest

Question on Wadcutter Ammo

Lab4Us

Lab4Us

Master Class
I bought some Sellier & Bennot ammo based on description below (especially the bolded words):

The Sellier & Bellot 32 S&W Long Ammunition is meticulously crafted for those engaged in precision shooting such as competitive target shooters and firearm enthusiasts. Its 100 Grain Wadcutter bullet is specifically designed to create clean, precise holes in paper targets, aiding in accurate shot analysis and scoring. This type of ammunition is particularly beneficial in practice scenariosrequiring high levels of repeatable performance, allowing shooters to fine-tune their accuracy and marksmanship skills.

Yesterday I took my Ruger LCR .32 H&R to the range to 1) determine point of aim for new XS front sight, and 2) practice with the LCR.

My rounds of fire were:

5 RDS right #7 at 3 yds - slow fire
5 RDS left #7 at 3 yds - slow fire
10 RDS center at 5 yds - at speed, soon as on target
10 RDS center at 7 yds - at speed, soon as on target
5 RDS center at 10 yds - slow fire
5 strings of 2 RDS center and 1 RDS head at 3 yds - fast as possible

Why am I not getting clean, precise holes in my paper target? I’m happy with the hits, especially with 1.78” barrel, but I don’t understand the rips in the paper.

IMG_4748.jpeg
 
Lab4Us said:
I bought some Sellier & Bennot ammo based on description below (especially the bolded words):

The Sellier & Bellot 32 S&W Long Ammunition is meticulously crafted for those engaged in precision shooting such as competitive target shooters and firearm enthusiasts. Its 100 Grain Wadcutter bullet is specifically designed to create clean, precise holes in paper targets, aiding in accurate shot analysis and scoring. This type of ammunition is particularly beneficial in practice scenariosrequiring high levels of repeatable performance, allowing shooters to fine-tune their accuracy and marksmanship skills.

Yesterday I took my Ruger LCR .32 H&R to the range to 1) determine point of aim for new XS front sight, and 2) practice with the LCR.

My rounds of fire were:

5 RDS right #7 at 3 yds - slow fire
5 RDS left #7 at 3 yds - slow fire
10 RDS center at 5 yds - at speed, soon as on target
10 RDS center at 7 yds - at speed, soon as on target
5 RDS center at 10 yds - slow fire
5 strings of 2 RDS center and 1 RDS head at 3 yds - fast as possible

Why am I not getting clean, precise holes in my paper target? I’m happy with the hits, especially with 1.78” barrel, but I don’t understand the rips in the paper.

View attachment 77779
Click to expand...
My guess is the bullets are key holing, could be cause of the short barrel on your gun, wadcutters are meant actually for target shooting in longer barrels…..plus the rifling twist rate in your gun may not be enough to stabilize the bullets
 
Last edited:
Thanks! Guess I’ll just be happy with knowing the XS sight POA is spot on.

I’m for sure not firing 50 RDS of my carry ammo, Buffalo Bore .32 H&R STANDARD PRESSURE Ammo 100 gr. Hard Cast @ (900 fps - 2" or 1050 fps - 6"/ME 222 ft-lbs), for practice at $1.90 a round. I initially fired 22 of these, out of 40, to make sure they hit where I wanted. Used the remaining 18 to load 6 in the gun and two speed strips of 6.

I don’t recall these making any rips in the paper, so the 900 FPS seems fast enough to do what the rounds are meant to do.
 
HansGruber said:
Your bullets aren’t keyholing. This isn’t a twist issue whatsoever.

The paper is tearing because it doesn't have a backer.

Try shooting a piece of cardboard.
Click to expand...
Not that kind of range. You clip paper targets to two clips at top. The clips are spaced about 2 ft apart and likely not strong enough to hold a piece of cardboard.

Other rounds (I’ve shot thousands of various calibers at these paper targets) don’t seem to do this. Well, .357 Sigs do sometimes, depending on the brand/FPS and how close the target is to the gun.
 
Lab4Us said:
Not that kind of range. You clip paper targets to two clips at top. The clips are spaced about 2 ft apart and likely not strong enough to hold a piece of cardboard.

Other rounds (I’ve shot thousands of various calibers at these paper targets) don’t seem to do this. Well, .357 Sigs do sometimes, depending on the brand/FPS and how close the target is to the gun.
Click to expand...

Again, it’s the target paper.
 
It shouldn’t be so that tells me 1 of 3 things. 1 your rifling is worn out. 2 the target is bunched up and tearing or 3 there is something amuck with the bullet QC hardness of the lead or something factor

So I’m not sure what direction to point you. I know it shouldn’t matter on speed with Wadcutters as a wadcutter is a wadcutter
 
ECS686 said:
It shouldn’t be so that tells me 1 of 3 things. 1 your rifling is worn out. 2 the target is bunched up and tearing or 3 there is something amuck with the bullet QC hardness of the lead or something factor

So I’m not sure what direction to point you. I know it shouldn’t matter on speed with Wadcutters as a wadcutter is a wadcutter
Click to expand...
Practically brand new gun, just released last fall. After this range trip, it only has 208 rounds through it.

Target was hanging freely.

Only other wadcutters I’ve shot to date was the Buffalo Bore H&R 100g Magnum hard cast and Federal Champion Training H&R Magnum 95g LSWC, but they both worked fine (as in made normal holes in free hanging paper target).

I have more of the Sellier and Bellot, so next time, I’ll do some side by side shooting using various wadcutters on multiple smaller targets on one big paper target for comparison. I’m thinking as someone above said, the speed of the round. The H&R Magnum WCs seem to do okay, but the SW Long WC did this, so if I want to save practice money, I might just have to deal with the target tears, at least until .32 H&R guns continue their popularity enough to drop ammo prices.

In the end, I got what I needed - I can hit what I’m shooting at with the little revolver at reasonable SD range.

It’s probably a little bit of everything identified in this thread causing the rips (though I’m sure my rifling hasn’t worn out yet and I couldn’t have gotten target any straighter). I can try to figure out a way to try cardboard backing, but I don’t think their clips will hold the weight.
 
Low velocity.

The S&B .32 S&W Long 100 grain wadcutter is only making around 650 fps out of my S&W 431PD (2" barrel). That's not enough to make a clean hole in paper. Maybe if the humidity is very low it does better, but even then there will be plenty of torn holes.

A heavier tag board target paper might give a clean hole also. That's what is used for serious matches because it's more forgiving of low velocity bullets.
 
Lab4Us said:
Practically brand new gun, just released last fall. After this range trip, it only has 208 rounds through it.

Target was hanging freely.

Only other wadcutters I’ve shot to date was the Buffalo Bore H&R 100g Magnum hard cast and Federal Champion Training H&R Magnum 95g LSWC, but they both worked fine (as in made normal holes in free hanging paper target).

I have more of the Sellier and Bellot, so next time, I’ll do some side by side shooting using various wadcutters on multiple smaller targets on one big paper target for comparison. I’m thinking as someone above said, the speed of the round. The H&R Magnum WCs seem to do okay, but the SW Long WC did this, so if I want to save practice money, I might just have to deal with the target tears, at least until .32 H&R guns continue their popularity enough to drop ammo prices.

In the end, I got what I needed - I can hit what I’m shooting at with the little revolver at reasonable SD range.

It’s probably a little bit of everything identified in this thread causing the rips (though I’m sure my rifling hasn’t worn out yet and I couldn’t have gotten target any straighter). I can try to figure out a way to try cardboard backing, but I don’t think their clips will hold the weight.
Click to expand...
I shot the prototype in August at the East Coast Snub revolver roundup. Slick revolver.

I can’t get my hands on that or the 432 UC revolver as I want one for my wife.

Like Barry said it could be to low velocity. Anyone you know have a 4” barrel 327 or 32 you could try?

That said I would suggest try High Desert Cartridge company. They have a couple

Their 32 H&R mag 98 grain WC 825 FPS
32 S&W Long 98 grain WC 815 FPS

 
Last edited:
HayesGreener said:
Need a firm backing like cardboard or foam for the target so the paper doesn't tear.
Click to expand...
Is that unique to wadcutters, the 1.5-2” tears if there’s no backing? Here is a free hanging paper target, no backing, .38 sp rounds out of 3” Colt Python.

Second target below is same gun as original post in this thread with H&R Magnum rounds, same distances mostly. Free hanging paper target, just as above.

I’ve also had very minimal tearing with other calibers (less than 1/4”, not even tearing really, just expanded holes). Last target is .40 out of a Glock G23. Again, free hanging target.

As mentioned above, I’m going to try to figure out a way to rig a backing for the wadcutters and try it that way. But I’m thinking clips aren’t going to hold the added weight.

IMG_4548.jpeg


IMG_4689.jpeg


IMG_4591.jpeg
 
Lab4Us said:
Is that unique to wadcutters, the 1.5-2” tears if there’s no backing? Here is a free hanging paper target, no backing, .38 sp rounds out of 3” Colt Python.

Second target below is same gun as original post in this thread with H&R Magnum rounds, same distances mostly. Free hanging paper target, just as above.

I’ve also had very minimal tearing with other calibers (less than 1/4”, not even tearing really, just expanded holes). Last target is .40 out of a Glock G23. Again, free hanging target.

As mentioned above, I’m going to try to figure out a way to rig a backing for the wadcutters and try it that way. But I’m thinking clips aren’t going to hold the added weight.

View attachment 77843

View attachment 77845

View attachment 77848
Click to expand...
Back in my days shooting wadcutters in revolvers for PPC matches, the targets were printed on cardboard to minimize tearing. Sometimes the scores were so close the distance from the X were measured in tiny fractions so you needed good clean holes in the target. That is after all the purpose of wadcutters. Nowadays I use mostly cardstock targets from Targetsonline. Here is a target using standard paper targets without a backer, shot with .45ACP, note the tearing.
 

Attachments

  • 20241003_081318.jpg
    20241003_081318.jpg
    2.8 MB · Views: 2
HayesGreener said:
Back in my days shooting wadcutters in revolvers for PPC matches, the targets were printed on cardboard to minimize tearing. Sometimes the scores were so close the distance from the X were measured in tiny fractions so you needed good clean holes in the target. That is after all the purpose of wadcutters. Nowadays I use mostly cardstock targets from Targetsonline. Here is a target using standard paper targets without a backer, shot with .45ACP, note the tearing.
Click to expand...
Yep, I understand that completely, the rounds tearing a bit around the edges were bullet hit. I was just curious (so started the thread) why the wadcutters tears look like they’re 2” in length and they are all, without exception, fully horizontal. Much different type of hits on the target it appears to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top