1911 Carry Conditions Explained

[KillerFord1977]

Gave up on 1911's ages ago. They are for FUDDS or gun fondlers. Archaic design, low capacity. Yes they do a good job fpr pistol whipping someone, but don't care about that. In this day and age, you need every advantage and 1911 does not deliver. I do have a Colt Custom shop 1911 in hard chrome finish I need to sell. I had found it last year in storage. Forgot I even had it. Have zero use for it. But it IS super accurate.

Now...I have made some big changes to my gun lineup...

Any guns I get now have to be disposable. In SHTFF, the government will confiscate guns at roadblocks just as they did in Katrina. I'm sorry I didn't buy a dozen or two cheap AKs back in the day when they were $150 each. But what ugly POS they were. Ugly or not, they shoot and I would love them as disposable guns now.

For a cheap car gun that I can kinda afford to lose, I settled on M&P FPC 9mm. I like a 5.7 FN PS90 for a car gun. Small footprint, better trajectory than a 9mm. And it won't throw hot brass in a passenger's face in the car, as it ejects spent cases downwards. It is also not as loud as an AR. You shoot an AR in the car cabin and say goodbye to your ears. BUT...outfitted with a mini ACOG the PS90 cost a fortune to lose to jackboot confiscation. Even with no sights the PS90 is too much to lose.

For sights I use Monstrum Ghost Red Dot Sight $70. Lots of cheap red dot options, you check them out. For iron sights I go with Adegrin Flip Up Sights Gen2 MB-US $26 It is a decent build copy of Magpul MBUS. I don't like them better than Magpul, but I like them better if they get confiscated. Just as I like ACOGs and Aimpoints for sights...but I can't afford to lose em to confiscation.

For pistols it is 9mm G3's and Caniks. (Cheapest models $260 - $360). Caniks are better, BUT if you lose the Caniks, it is $80 - $100 more than a G3 if they are confiscated. Just depends on your wallet thickness and what you can afford to lose and how many disposable guns you can afford to stock in the deep preps.

In any case...everything has to be decent quality, reliable and disposable. I use Underwood solid copper +P+ in the FPC, but just for the car gun. I can't afford to shoot much of it otherwise. The longer barrel (16.25"), the solid copper bullet and the +P+ load makes it a much more potent gun than a 9mm pistol with 4-inch barrel and standard load.

The S&W M&P FPC is overpriced for what it is. And even at that high price it is sold out around here at all the gun stores. But it is compact and won't blow your ears out like a 5.56. It is just how things are with how guns and ammo are priced nowadays. It is more of a $450 gun than a $600 gun. I like it better than the Ruger folding carbine. It is cheaper and folds smaller. If you want a folding 9mm that is even cheaper, look at Kel-Tec. I won't use them. But if you are poor, you get what you can.

For shotguns I have the usual suspects. High $, reliable, semi-auto...for the house. For the car I got 3 cheap Remington 870 pumps I bought 15 years ago for $250 each. Can't afford to lose the Italian guns. Wish I had bought more of the cheap Remington's, but I never thought we would be in the shape we are in now...not in a million years.

Don't be a gun fondling larper. Pick out good gun platforms. Stock up on them. Have them identical...I said IDENTICAL for seamless swapping. Don't be a gun fondler. That time is over.


View attachment 51752

You’ve had way to much vodka in the bloody mary

 

[HansGruber]

Gave up on 1911's ages ago. They are for FUDDS or gun fondlers. Archaic design, low capacity. Yes they do a good job fpr pistol whipping someone, but don't care about that. In this day and age, you need every advantage and 1911 does not deliver. I do have a Colt Custom shop 1911 in hard chrome finish I need to sell. I had found it last year in storage. Forgot I even had it. Have zero use for it. But it IS super accurate.

Now...I have made some big changes to my gun lineup...

Any guns I get now have to be disposable. In SHTFF, the government will confiscate guns at roadblocks just as they did in Katrina. I'm sorry I didn't buy a dozen or two cheap AKs back in the day when they were $150 each. But what ugly POS they were. Ugly or not, they shoot and I would love them as disposable guns now.

For a cheap car gun that I can kinda afford to lose, I settled on M&P FPC 9mm. I like a 5.7 FN PS90 for a car gun. Small footprint, better trajectory than a 9mm. And it won't throw hot brass in a passenger's face in the car, as it ejects spent cases downwards. It is also not as loud as an AR. You shoot an AR in the car cabin and say goodbye to your ears. BUT...outfitted with a mini ACOG the PS90 cost a fortune to lose to jackboot confiscation. Even with no sights the PS90 is too much to lose.

For sights I use Monstrum Ghost Red Dot Sight $70. Lots of cheap red dot options, you check them out. For iron sights I go with Adegrin Flip Up Sights Gen2 MB-US $26 It is a decent build copy of Magpul MBUS. I don't like them better than Magpul, but I like them better if they get confiscated. Just as I like ACOGs and Aimpoints for sights...but I can't afford to lose em to confiscation.

For pistols it is 9mm G3's and Caniks. (Cheapest models $260 - $360). Caniks are better, BUT if you lose the Caniks, it is $80 - $100 more than a G3 if they are confiscated. Just depends on your wallet thickness and what you can afford to lose and how many disposable guns you can afford to stock in the deep preps.

In any case...everything has to be decent quality, reliable and disposable. I use Underwood solid copper +P+ in the FPC, but just for the car gun. I can't afford to shoot much of it otherwise. The longer barrel (16.25"), the solid copper bullet and the +P+ load makes it a much more potent gun than a 9mm pistol with 4-inch barrel and standard load.

The S&W M&P FPC is overpriced for what it is. And even at that high price it is sold out around here at all the gun stores. But it is compact and won't blow your ears out like a 5.56. It is just how things are with how guns and ammo are priced nowadays. It is more of a $450 gun than a $600 gun. I like it better than the Ruger folding carbine. It is cheaper and folds smaller. If you want a folding 9mm that is even cheaper, look at Kel-Tec. I won't use them. But if you are poor, you get what you can.

For shotguns I have the usual suspects. High $, reliable, semi-auto...for the house. For the car I got 3 cheap Remington 870 pumps I bought 15 years ago for $250 each. Can't afford to lose the Italian guns. Wish I had bought more of the cheap Remington's, but I never thought we would be in the shape we are in now...not in a million years.

Don't be a gun fondling larper. Pick out good gun platforms. Stock up on them. Have them identical...I said IDENTICAL for seamless swapping. Don't be a gun fondler. That time is over.


View attachment 51752

You plan on missing a lot.

Got it.

 

[Snake45]

Gave up on 1911's ages ago. They are for FUDDS or gun fondlers. Archaic design, low capacity. Yes they do a good job fpr pistol whipping someone, but don't care about that. In this day and age, you need every advantage and 1911 does not deliver. I do have a Colt Custom shop 1911 in hard chrome finish I need to sell. I had found it last year in storage. Forgot I even had it. Have zero use for it. But it IS super accurate.

Now...I have made some big changes to my gun lineup...

Any guns I get now have to be disposable. In SHTFF, the government will confiscate guns at roadblocks just as they did in Katrina. I'm sorry I didn't buy a dozen or two cheap AKs back in the day when they were $150 each. But what ugly POS they were. Ugly or not, they shoot and I would love them as disposable guns now.

For a cheap car gun that I can kinda afford to lose, I settled on M&P FPC 9mm. I like a 5.7 FN PS90 for a car gun. Small footprint, better trajectory than a 9mm. And it won't throw hot brass in a passenger's face in the car, as it ejects spent cases downwards. It is also not as loud as an AR. You shoot an AR in the car cabin and say goodbye to your ears. BUT...outfitted with a mini ACOG the PS90 cost a fortune to lose to jackboot confiscation. Even with no sights the PS90 is too much to lose.

For sights I use Monstrum Ghost Red Dot Sight $70. Lots of cheap red dot options, you check them out. For iron sights I go with Adegrin Flip Up Sights Gen2 MB-US $26 It is a decent build copy of Magpul MBUS. I don't like them better than Magpul, but I like them better if they get confiscated. Just as I like ACOGs and Aimpoints for sights...but I can't afford to lose em to confiscation.

For pistols it is 9mm G3's and Caniks. (Cheapest models $260 - $360). Caniks are better, BUT if you lose the Caniks, it is $80 - $100 more than a G3 if they are confiscated. Just depends on your wallet thickness and what you can afford to lose and how many disposable guns you can afford to stock in the deep preps.

In any case...everything has to be decent quality, reliable and disposable. I use Underwood solid copper +P+ in the FPC, but just for the car gun. I can't afford to shoot much of it otherwise. The longer barrel (16.25"), the solid copper bullet and the +P+ load makes it a much more potent gun than a 9mm pistol with 4-inch barrel and standard load.

The S&W M&P FPC is overpriced for what it is. And even at that high price it is sold out around here at all the gun stores. But it is compact and won't blow your ears out like a 5.56. It is just how things are with how guns and ammo are priced nowadays. It is more of a $450 gun than a $600 gun. I like it better than the Ruger folding carbine. It is cheaper and folds smaller. If you want a folding 9mm that is even cheaper, look at Kel-Tec. I won't use them. But if you are poor, you get what you can.

For shotguns I have the usual suspects. High $, reliable, semi-auto...for the house. For the car I got 3 cheap Remington 870 pumps I bought 15 years ago for $250 each. Can't afford to lose the Italian guns. Wish I had bought more of the cheap Remington's, but I never thought we would be in the shape we are in now...not in a million years.

Don't be a gun fondling larper. Pick out good gun platforms. Stock up on them. Have them identical...I said IDENTICAL for seamless swapping. Don't be a gun fondler. That time is over.


View attachment 51752

You've actually put a lot of good thought into the situation. I salute you, but all this really has little to do with the thread topic, which is carry conditions of the 1911. But I look forward to hearing more from you in threads where this kind of info would be relevant.

 

[Snake45]

I use Condition Two/hammer down on a chambered round quite often. Go ahead, let me have it, I'm ready. Like everyone else nowadays, I use both hands to fire the pistol. So, I use my left hand thumb to release the safety as I place it on the pistol onto the pistol and my right hand. I especially use Condition Two when carrying with a shoulder holster. I don't practice "fast draws" from any holster. At 75 years old, I'm carrying the gun as a last resort, not for a confrontation where fractions of a second count. If I am in that situation, I'm probably screwed. Same thing with my Browning HP. I have found that many holsters do not like the extended safeties of some pistols. I have a Galco that does not like the safety of my Sig Sauer 1911 Ultra. The standard safety of my Colt Gov't is good to go. The safety on the Browning is also prone to disengagement of it's Galco. So, I have chosen to go the Condition Two route. As for lowering the hammer, I agree that doing it with one hand is a good way to lose a digit...or worse. I place my left thumb or index finger between the hammer and the slide and release the hammer onto them. If I were ever to get into something serious, I would engage the safety until I got myself calmed down and then take care of the hammer.

VERY interesting, and I'm not gonna rag on you.

In the classic 1960 book Handgunner's Guide, Chic Gaylord presented an interesting option for Condition 2 carry: "Cavalry Draw," which isn't seen much for anything these days and is largely forgotten. Intrigued, I've given the technique a good amount of practice (with an EMPTY gun, of course) and have gotten semi-good at it, and even developed my own new twist (pun intended) on the technique that's safer than what's shown in the book.

I've only done it with 1911s, and have no idea how well it would work with a Browning P35, but I might have to give that a try.

Just to clarify, I DO NOT carry this way, nor have I ever tried it on a range with live ammo.

 

[DDTM]

VERY interesting, and I'm not gonna rag on you.

In the classic 1960 book Handgunner's Guide, Chic Gaylord presented an interesting option for Condition 2 carry: "Cavalry Draw," which isn't seen much for anything these days and is largely forgotten. Intrigued, I've given the technique a good amount of practice (with an EMPTY gun, of course) and have gotten semi-good at it, and even developed my own new twist (pun intended) on the technique that's safer than what's shown in the book.

I've only done it with 1911s, and have no idea how well it would work with a Browning P35, but I might have to give that a try.

Just to clarify, I DO NOT carry this way, nor have I ever tried it on a range with live ammo.

I have four 1911's. Two are the 1911 configuration (a 1918 that unfortunately has been altered with reblue, micro sights from long ago, and Colt's 1911 WWI model) a Colt Series 80 I installed the original 1911 wide hammer and A1 arched checkered mainspring housing, and the Sig Sauer Ultra. I tend to carry the Browning HP more than the 1911 by far. I do have a Sig Sauer P239 in .357. The DA/SA of that gun is probably the best one for carry, but ammo is not cheap. My state recently went to a ten round magazine limit as did the state South of it. I can still use the Browning with it's 13,15, and 17 round mags, but not in the other state, so I will probably use the Colt when traveling there. I prefer the eight round .45 over the ten round 9mm.

Again, I just don't practice enough to be really proficient drawing from a holster. The holster, to me, is just the method to have the gun with me. I find my two handed method as I outlined more comfortable...for me. Going to the range every weekend and expending 100 rounds in practice is prohibitive in my case...Social Security and a modest pension do not provide the funds for this. As long as the Second is observed, I intend to have a weapon on my person...just in case.

 

[COLTMAN]

IN THE ARTICLE YOU TALK ABOUT DISCHARGE FROM DROPPING YOUR 1911 FIREARM AND THAT SPRINGFEILD ARMS HAS DROP RESISTANT DISCHARGE 1911'S.MY QUESTION ISOES COLT SERIES 80 GOVERNMENT MODEL EMPLOY THIS TECHNOLOGY.ALSO WILL THE FIREARM DISCHARGE A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER WHEN THE FIREARM IS AT WHAT I CALL HALFCOCK ,WHEN GRIP SAFETY IS EMPLOYED AND TRIGGER IS PULLED

 

[Elfego Baca]

Long ago I bought a Bianchi holster for my dcm 1911. Being left handed cocked and locked was not feasible for me. I lived with the hammer down on a loaded chamber. It served me well. The extra snap allowed me to carry a High Standard Supermatic Citation.
My SA35 'fits' the old holster. My new ambidextrous holster is an excellent fit but my magazine release gets 'bumped' and that makes my SA35 a single shot pistol. I haven't found a holster that protects the magazine button!

 

[Elfego Baca]

Long ago I bought a Bianchi holster for my dcm 1911. Being left handed cocked and locked was not feasible for me. I lived with the hammer down on a loaded chamber. It served me well. The extra snap allowed me to carry a High Standard Supermatic Citation.
My SA35 'fits' the old holster. My new ambidextrous holster is an excellent fit but my magazine release gets 'bumped' and that makes my SA35 a single shot pistol. I haven't found a holster that protects the magazine button!

I did install an Wolfe extra power magazine release spring to solve this issue.
My Glock holster for my Glock 26 pistol protects unintentional magazine release then some and is ambidextrous and economical. My SA35 fits and works if i don't do summersaults.

 

[Snake45]

I did install an Wolfe extra power magazine release spring to solve this issue.
My Glock holster for my Glock 26 pistol protects unintentional magazine release then some and is ambidextrous and economical. My SA35 fits and works if i don't do summersaults.

Congratulations on applying some brainpower and trying to SOLVE your problem and "make it work," as opposed to the FAR-too-common modern reaction of whining "Why doesn't SOMEBODY make [name of some nonexistent, imaginary thing that would fix everything]?"

 

[SimonRL]

IN THE ARTICLE YOU TALK ABOUT DISCHARGE FROM DROPPING YOUR 1911 FIREARM AND THAT SPRINGFEILD ARMS HAS DROP RESISTANT DISCHARGE 1911'S.MY QUESTION ISOES COLT SERIES 80 GOVERNMENT MODEL EMPLOY THIS TECHNOLOGY.ALSO WILL THE FIREARM DISCHARGE A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER WHEN THE FIREARM IS AT WHAT I CALL HALFCOCK ,WHEN GRIP SAFETY IS EMPLOYED AND TRIGGER IS PULLED

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING? BACK AWAY FROM THE ALL CAPS KEY!

 

[DDTM]

IN THE ARTICLE YOU TALK ABOUT DISCHARGE FROM DROPPING YOUR 1911 FIREARM AND THAT SPRINGFEILD ARMS HAS DROP RESISTANT DISCHARGE 1911'S.MY QUESTION ISOES COLT SERIES 80 GOVERNMENT MODEL EMPLOY THIS TECHNOLOGY.ALSO WILL THE FIREARM DISCHARGE A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER WHEN THE FIREARM IS AT WHAT I CALL HALFCOCK ,WHEN GRIP SAFETY IS EMPLOYED AND TRIGGER IS PULLED

I installed an original 1911 wide spur hammer in my series 80 nearly 15 years ago. It will not not discharge. I have no problems whatsoever. Additionally, I installed an original 1911 trigger to replace the plastic one, and as stated before I also replaced the plastic flat mainspring housing with an original arched checkered mainspring housing. This pistol is used in a shoulder holster it shares with my Browning HP.

 

[DDTM]

I did install an Wolfe extra power magazine release spring to solve this issue.
My Glock holster for my Glock 26 pistol protects unintentional magazine release then some and is ambidextrous and economical. My SA35 fits and works if i don't do summersaults.

Had the same problem with a HP in a custom made flap holster used for my 1911 and HP. I had to indent the area of the mag release button using a dremel bit. Problem solved.

 

[HayesGreener]

It's my 1911 and I will fondle it if I want!

 

[Vietnam Vet]

I use Condition Two/hammer down on a chambered round quite often. Go ahead, let me have it, I'm ready. Like everyone else nowadays, I use both hands to fire the pistol. So, I use my left hand thumb to release the safety as I place it on the pistol onto the pistol and my right hand. I especially use Condition Two when carrying with a shoulder holster. I don't practice "fast draws" from any holster. At 75 years old, I'm carrying the gun as a last resort, not for a confrontation where fractions of a second count. If I am in that situation, I'm probably screwed. Same thing with my Browning HP. I have found that many holsters do not like the extended safeties of some pistols. I have a Galco that does not like the safety of my Sig Sauer 1911 Ultra. The standard safety of my Colt Gov't is good to go. The safety on the Browning is also prone to disengagement of it's Galco. So, I have chosen to go the Condition Two route. As for lowering the hammer, I agree that doing it with one hand is a good way to lose a digit...or worse. I place my left thumb or index finger between the hammer and the slide and release the hammer onto them. If I were ever to get into something serious, I would engage the safety until I got myself calmed down and then take care of the hammer.

You say that you carry your 1911 in condition 2 because the holsters you use don't seem to like the safety on your Sig 1911. I've been carrying a Sig 1911 ever since they first came out back around 2000. I primarily carry mine in a a Yaqui slide holster which does not hinder the safety in any way. At times, I also carry it in a shoulder holster. I use one made of ballistic nylon from Uncle Mike's and have never had an issue concerning the safety. I think if you would try some different holsters, you'd be able to carry that fine 1911 you have in a much safer and much more ready manner. You did not mention how you cock the hammer when you draw your 1911. Cocking the hammer is just as hard as lowering the hammer with one hand on the 1911. I think it is safe to say that none of us want to ever have to draw and fire our firearms in a self defense scenario, but there is always the possibility. That possibility is why we carry a handgun. You also mentioned that you don't think a split second will count in one of these scenarios, but having lived through one, I can attest to the fact that a split second can make the difference in life or death.... yours. I don't know about your Browning High Power. I had one years ago and loved it, but I never carried it for defense. Unfortunately I sold a long time ago and have kicked myself in the butt ever since. I do have one of the clones on order and can't wait for its arrival. Take care out there my friend and be safe.

 

[HayesGreener]

Sigh!

 

[DDTM]

You say that you carry your 1911 in condition 2 because the holsters you use don't seem to like the safety on your Sig 1911. I've been carrying a Sig 1911 ever since they first came out back around 2000. I primarily carry mine in a a Yaqui slide holster which does not hinder the safety in any way. At times, I also carry it in a shoulder holster. I use one made of ballistic nylon from Uncle Mike's and have never had an issue concerning the safety. I think if you would try some different holsters, you'd be able to carry that fine 1911 you have in a much safer and much more ready manner. You did not mention how you cock the hammer when you draw your 1911. Cocking the hammer is just as hard as lowering the hammer with one hand on the 1911. I think it is safe to say that none of us want to ever have to draw and fire our firearms in a self defense scenario, but there is always the possibility. That possibility is why we carry a handgun. You also mentioned that you don't think a split second will count in one of these scenarios, but having lived through one, I can attest to the fact that a split second can make the difference in life or death.... yours. I don't know about your Browning High Power. I had one years ago and loved it, but I never carried it for defense. Unfortunately I sold a long time ago and have kicked myself in the butt ever since. I do have one of the clones on order and can't wait for its arrival. Take care out there my friend and be safe.

I cock the 1911's (all of them) with my left thumb when I grip the pistol with my left hand over the right hand. I lower the hammer in the same manner with the thumb blocking the hammer fall. I am fully aware that the prescribed method is to use the safety for Condition One.

I use the safety if I want to stop shooting before emptying the magazine.

In order to perfect a "fast draw", I would need to do a lot of with range time. No range exists in my area to do firing from a holster. It is getting very difficult to even find a place in the boonies to do so. No, I do not live in California. I am not that concerned with encountering a threat that would require me to draw and fire in a "split second". I understand fully what you say about a "life and death" situation, but that is more likely to happen in my case at home, and for that I keep a 12 gauge shotgun available. NOTHING beats that gun. Honestly, I carry the guns because it is better to have one that not have it. I am not ex law enforcement or military, but I did get the WWI 1918 1911 I have 64 years ago at the age of 11. As I related, I have three others.

I have numerous holsters for the 1911's with some being military type full flap I used to use in the field to protect the gun. The shoulder holsters I use are made by Falco in Slovakia, and I find them to be outstanding. I also have shoulder holsters for two .357 revolvers I use in the field. Belt holsters do not work well for me anymore due to my back, hips, etc.
Nearly all these forums I read are predominately used by those that approach CC much more seriously than I do. The list of threats out to get me in today's world is so long that I can never protect myself from most of them. I just do my best.

In conclusion, I will say that I do prefer a single action pistol, but I also use a Sig Sauer P239 in .357. This of course is DA/SA and the concern over a "cocked and locked" does not exist. In the boonies hiking, etc. it is my 12 gauge Benelli or a .44 Mag or .357. For accuracy and range, I have never found a semi auto pistol to equal them.

I know I am in a minority using a 1911 in Condition 2, but I am confident that is the best practice for me.

 

[Snake45]

DDTM, you make a strong case. Not saying I agree with all of it 100%, but it's obvious that you've put a good deal of thought into your situation and needs and come up with a solution that works for you. We don't see nearly enough of that these days. Congratulations!

 

[HayesGreener]

Carrying a 1911 pistol for defensive purposes is not for novices. It takes time, practice, and a certain set of skills to carry it safely and with confidence. If you don't want to commit to build the skills, choose a different platform and don't carry a 1911. There are plenty alternatives.

 

[JohnML]

Carrying a 1911 pistol for defensive purposes is not for novices. It takes time, practice, and a certain set of skills to carry it safely and with confidence. If you don't want to commit to build the skills, choose a different platform and don't carry a 1911. There are plenty alternatives.

Here, Here! Carrying a 1911 requires a set of skills many are not willing to aquire. I have carried a 1911 on duty and as an EDC for over 40 years in condition 1 (the only real way to carry if it is to be used as a self defense weapon) no ADs or NDs if you prefer. One of the big pluses in carrying a 1911 is if some one takes it from you, it is not a point and shoot so you have a brief time to reaquire it before they are able to figure out whay it won't shoot.

 

[Bassbob]

Carrying a 1911 pistol for defensive purposes is not for novices.

No, it's for gun fondling fudds.