Thank you for that. Appreciate it.DDTM, you make a strong case. Not saying I agree with all of it 100%, but it's obvious that you've put a good deal of thought into your situation and needs and come up with a solution that works for you. We don't see nearly enough of that these days. Congratulations!
1911 Carry Conditions Explained
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
The objective of carrying any gun is to protect oneself. I can do that. I may not be Raylan Givens, or the absurd John Wick, but arguing over Condition One or Two is hardly something that warrants a condemnation over the use of gun. There is no requirement to exercise your right of self defense that mandates extensive training and practice. I am quite confident I can defend myself against the average skell that has had little to no training, etc. Now if I have to go against trained military or such, I'm screwed as are most people.
Sigh...ok, I'm going to go with my 1915 DWM Luger.No, it's for gun fondling fudds.
Bassbob
Emissary
No there is no mandate nor should there ever be one. It’s all a game of odds. Even Navy Seals have been killed by average skells. And plenty of untrained individuals have managed to defend themselves in life or death situations. For most people the odds are we’ll never be in that situation. My personal SOP though is to be as prepared as I reasonably can be. I enjoy training. I’m under no illusion as to what the odds are that it will ever actually matter.
As for 1911s, I rarely carry them anymore. I’ve been fully immersed in the plastic 9mm world for several years now. Though I often still carry plastic .45s. There’s nothing wrong with carrying 1911s though. I personally think cocked and locked is best for me, but everything ain’t for everybody. With 1911s I’m partial to cross draw shoulder rigs, but I’ve carried them 3:00 in OWB holsters as well.
I'm with you on the cross draw and shoulder rigs. Training as mentioned in my area requires a considerable drive. I have a severe hearing loss from shooting, and avoid ranges for the most part anymore...difficult to hear range commands and I'd like to "check out" with just hearing aids and not some cochlear implant of such. Do most of my shooting in the boonies, but I do have a membership in a gun club with a very nice range.
I am considering the Sig P365, but I can make the Sig Ultra Compact 1911 or the P239 work when unable to use the HP or Gov't 1911. The Luger was, of course, my attempt at humor.
I get it if you can't function a 1911 then call those who can names. Sounds about right.No, it's for gun fondling fudds.
HayesGreener
Ronin
I have fondled my 1911 today. I have had a brisket on the smoker since midnight. Now for a nap
Snake45
Professional
Here's my situation: With everywhere in the US now a "border town" (if YOUR town isn't, it soon will be), I've decided that carrying at home is a good idea. I can't count on having enough time to get to a gun; if I don't have it ON me when the door is suddenly kicked in, whereever I am in the house, I'm screwed.
I seldom go out (par for the course is one trip a week to Walmart, and maybe one other trip somewhere). My everyday wear is comfortable sweat pants or shorts--no belt in either case. I also spend about 80-90% of my waking time sitting, either at my desktop computer or reading in a comfy chair.
I have a couple different types of shoulder holster, but they're a pain to mess with every day. ('Sides which, The Lovely Mrs. Snake would rag me mercilessly about it, so I ain't going there.) I decided last year that some type of "belly band" holster might work well for me. I was starting to research the available models and prices, as well as the idea of crafting my own out of "surgical elastic" of some kind when I saw a YouTube ad for the "VNSH" bellyband, which looked like exactly what I had in mind. I ordered one immediately, and even paid extra (I think it was $5) for a "lifetime warranty" which gives me the right to exchange it for a new one if it ever breaks or wears out.
The bellyband/holster was delivered within a week and it seemed to be everything they said it was. It's VERY comfortable and secure and simply vanishes under my sweat pants. My only complaint with it is that it's set up for compact size autopistols; it will take full-size autopistols but will NOT accept any sort of revolver including a J-frame Smith.
The bellyband can be worn in any position you want, and will carry the gun right-handed or left-handed. Appendix carry was a non-starter for me for a number of reasons. Crossdraw on the left hip was reasonably comfortable, but due to my own body issues, not particularly fast or accessible. Normal draw at or just behind the right hip is comfortable when standing, but sitting is both uncomfortable and hard on the furniture.
That's when I decided to try the long-forgotten "cavalry carry," which is butt-forward on or just behind the strong-side hip. This is as comfortable as crossdraw carry, but WAY more accessible, and it isn't hard on the furniture at all. The draw is a little tricky, but that's a matter of practice. I experimented with various guns as well as several different CO2/BB replica guns (which are full-size and full weight) and determined that what I really want for this bellyband/cavalry carry/all day every day deal is a conventional SA/DA automatic of some sort. The only one I have is an old Smith 5906, which would be perfect except for its weight, which is as much as an all-steel 5" 1911, if not more. I'm keeping my eyes open for a used Smith 5904 or any other reasonably priced SA/DA 9mm semiauto in the 26-32 ounce weight range. (You might remember my "School Me On Berettas" post of last summer.) Until I can get one, the only suitable guns I have in the right weight range are lightweight 1911s (either Commander or full-size). I'm not 100% comfortable with Condition One for this carry, nor Condition Three, so I'm kinda stuck with Condition Two, cocking the hammer on the draw.
So that's MY thoughts on the subject.
I seldom go out (par for the course is one trip a week to Walmart, and maybe one other trip somewhere). My everyday wear is comfortable sweat pants or shorts--no belt in either case. I also spend about 80-90% of my waking time sitting, either at my desktop computer or reading in a comfy chair.
I have a couple different types of shoulder holster, but they're a pain to mess with every day. ('Sides which, The Lovely Mrs. Snake would rag me mercilessly about it, so I ain't going there.) I decided last year that some type of "belly band" holster might work well for me. I was starting to research the available models and prices, as well as the idea of crafting my own out of "surgical elastic" of some kind when I saw a YouTube ad for the "VNSH" bellyband, which looked like exactly what I had in mind. I ordered one immediately, and even paid extra (I think it was $5) for a "lifetime warranty" which gives me the right to exchange it for a new one if it ever breaks or wears out.
The bellyband/holster was delivered within a week and it seemed to be everything they said it was. It's VERY comfortable and secure and simply vanishes under my sweat pants. My only complaint with it is that it's set up for compact size autopistols; it will take full-size autopistols but will NOT accept any sort of revolver including a J-frame Smith.
The bellyband can be worn in any position you want, and will carry the gun right-handed or left-handed. Appendix carry was a non-starter for me for a number of reasons. Crossdraw on the left hip was reasonably comfortable, but due to my own body issues, not particularly fast or accessible. Normal draw at or just behind the right hip is comfortable when standing, but sitting is both uncomfortable and hard on the furniture.
That's when I decided to try the long-forgotten "cavalry carry," which is butt-forward on or just behind the strong-side hip. This is as comfortable as crossdraw carry, but WAY more accessible, and it isn't hard on the furniture at all. The draw is a little tricky, but that's a matter of practice. I experimented with various guns as well as several different CO2/BB replica guns (which are full-size and full weight) and determined that what I really want for this bellyband/cavalry carry/all day every day deal is a conventional SA/DA automatic of some sort. The only one I have is an old Smith 5906, which would be perfect except for its weight, which is as much as an all-steel 5" 1911, if not more. I'm keeping my eyes open for a used Smith 5904 or any other reasonably priced SA/DA 9mm semiauto in the 26-32 ounce weight range. (You might remember my "School Me On Berettas" post of last summer.) Until I can get one, the only suitable guns I have in the right weight range are lightweight 1911s (either Commander or full-size). I'm not 100% comfortable with Condition One for this carry, nor Condition Three, so I'm kinda stuck with Condition Two, cocking the hammer on the draw.
So that's MY thoughts on the subject.
belladonna
Hellcat
I fondled three of mine the other day while taking inventory
, and realized how much I miss shooting them. They are needing some TLC range time!
belladonna
Hellcat
I have one of those belly bands, and carried my M&P9 2.0 compact almost constantly on our Nashville trip. I can't imagine carrying a 1911 in it, but they aren't that much bigger than my M&P9 and I carried that in the VNSH with no problems. You are right when you're saying it's all about carrying position. Carrying a striker fire pistol in it didn't bother me at all, but a 1911 would make me a little nervous. My 1911s are mainly for practice and home protection. I only carry one out in the bush, not in a belly band, and not in Condition 1.Here's my situation: With everywhere in the US now a "border town" (if YOUR town isn't, it soon will be), I've decided that carrying at home is a good idea. I can't count on having enough time to get to a gun; if I don't have it ON me when the door is suddenly kicked in, whereever I am in the house, I'm screwed.
I seldom go out (par for the course is one trip a week to Walmart, and maybe one other trip somewhere). My everyday wear is comfortable sweat pants or shorts--no belt in either case. I also spend about 80-90% of my waking time sitting, either at my desktop computer or reading in a comfy chair.
I have a couple different types of shoulder holster, but they're a pain to mess with every day. ('Sides which, The Lovely Mrs. Snake would rag me mercilessly about it, so I ain't going there.) I decided last year that some type of "belly band" holster might work well for me. I was starting to research the available models and prices, as well as the idea of crafting my own out of "surgical elastic" of some kind when I saw a YouTube ad for the "VNSH" bellyband, which looked like exactly what I had in mind. I ordered one immediately, and even paid extra (I think it was $5) for a "lifetime warranty" which gives me the right to exchange it for a new one if it ever breaks or wears out.
The bellyband/holster was delivered within a week and it seemed to be everything they said it was. It's VERY comfortable and secure and simply vanishes under my sweat pants. My only complaint with it is that it's set up for compact size autopistols; it will take full-size autopistols but will NOT accept any sort of revolver including a J-frame Smith.
The bellyband can be worn in any position you want, and will carry the gun right-handed or left-handed. Appendix carry was a non-starter for me for a number of reasons. Crossdraw on the left hip was reasonably comfortable, but due to my own body issues, not particularly fast or accessible. Normal draw at or just behind the right hip is comfortable when standing, but sitting is both uncomfortable and hard on the furniture.
That's when I decided to try the long-forgotten "cavalry carry," which is butt-forward on or just behind the strong-side hip. This is as comfortable as crossdraw carry, but WAY more accessible, and it isn't hard on the furniture at all. The draw is a little tricky, but that's a matter of practice. I experimented with various guns as well as several different CO2/BB replica guns (which are full-size and full weight) and determined that what I really want for this bellyband/cavalry carry/all day every day deal is a conventional SA/DA automatic of some sort. The only one I have is an old Smith 5906, which would be perfect except for its weight, which is as much as an all-steel 5" 1911, if not more. I'm keeping my eyes open for a used Smith 5904 or any other reasonably priced SA/DA 9mm semiauto in the 26-32 ounce weight range. (You might remember my "School Me On Berettas" post of last summer.) Until I can get one, the only suitable guns I have in the right weight range are lightweight 1911s (either Commander or full-size). I'm not 100% comfortable with Condition One for this carry, nor Condition Three, so I'm kinda stuck with Condition Two, cocking the hammer on the draw.
So that's MY thoughts on the subject.
Bassbob
Emissary
Read the entire thread and then learn to recognize sarcasm.
I fondel mine almost daily, it's called "dry fire". The best way to maintain functional dexterity, profeciancy and maximize range time.
SimonRL
Hellcat
If I’m fondling one of my 1911s it’s because it’s in my hand at the range!I fondled three of mine the other day while taking inventory
Annihilator
Emissary
Colt Series 80 has a firing pin block, disengages as you pull triggerIN THE ARTICLE YOU TALK ABOUT DISCHARGE FROM DROPPING YOUR 1911 FIREARM AND THAT SPRINGFEILD ARMS HAS DROP RESISTANT DISCHARGE 1911'S.MY QUESTION IS
gunslinger64
Alpha
RGrizzle makes some fantastic holsters(pictured), I know there is not a single 1911 in the picture but the top left holster is for my Commander. Not a big fan of plastic holsters although I do own a few because they're near inpervious to the weather. I've been considering an aluminum framed 1911 of late due to the lighter weight.
Attachments
Snake45
Professional
I built one of those up a couple decades ago and was shocked at how much more it recoiled than a standard steel-frame 1911. Booya Sam published in an article a few decades ago that due to the lighter slide weight, Colt's Combat Commander (steel frame, Commander length) had noticeably less recoil than other 1911s, and I found this to be true. I don't see much difference in recoil between an all-steel 5" and a LW Commander, but my LW 5" gun is the nastiest-recoiling 1911 I've ever shot. But hey, maybe that's just me. YMMV, and all that.
In a two week Military training episode, we were taught to carry in Condition 3. While at the range, as we extracted the Pistol from the holster we "racked" the slide, extended the pistol forward, aim, fire, repeat as necessary. I believe we were trained that way to ensure that the less experienced would not accidently shoot themselves or someone else. I now carry DA 9 in Condition 0 for my EDC. My "safety" is my nose picker. Never draw unless you intend to cause harm, or you are storing it. Can't remember where I heard that.
Vietnam Vet
Alpha
That is the way I was taught in the military as well. Fortunately I had been taught by experts prior to my volunteering. Once I got to Vietnam, I reverted to my former training and carried my 1911 in Condition 1 in the holster, both belt and shoulder holsters.
Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “1911 Carry Conditions Explained” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/1911-carry-conditions-explained/.
Condition zero seems sounds analogous to how one carries a (fully-cocked) striker-fired pistol, like an XD-M or PDP. They have firing pin blocks, so perhaps the best analogy would be to a carrying a series 80 1911 on condition zero. Apart from variations in trigger weight & pull length, it seems like condition zero carry is recognized as a bad idea on a 1911, but accepted as the design condition for many striker-fired pistols (if it’s in a proper holster). These seem very similar to me, but I’m no Jeff Cooper. I wonder what he would have said about this.Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “1911 Carry Conditions Explained” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/1911-carry-conditions-explained/.