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.22 for concealed carry, are you kidding me?

I know there are alternatives out there. My camp is when it comes to EDC use the same gun & ammo
you intend to carry. I believe using a replica BB or CO2 doesn't prepare the shooter for a
real world incident. My way may be more expensive but will pay for it's self in the end. IMHO
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"I believe using a replica BB or CO2 doesn't prepare the shooter for a
real world incident."

As Wirenut mentioned in his post, using a replica that is the exact weight, etc, prior to going to the range, I can see it being beneficial as far as maintaining muscle memory in drawing from holster, sight alignment, etc.
 
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This beretta 21-A has been riding in my front left pocket since my dad bought it for me as a backup when I got my first LEO job. I have worn out a few holsters over the years and the pistol is due for a bluing job. On range day either it or my CCW gets drawn and emptied at contact distances. I practice a fast mag dump and I feel confident in my rapid deployment of this backup pistol. I shoot these Aguila .22-SSS (sniper sub sonic) it’s a .22 short case with a 60 grain long bullet making it a .22 Long Rifle. However I carry a 1911. See a previous post by me and read the comments of a couple of EMTs in this thread.
 
As Wirenut mentioned in his post, using a replica that is the exact weight, etc, prior to going to the range, I can see it being beneficial as far as maintaining muscle memory in drawing from holster, sight alignment, etc.
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Don't quite understand...... I have my SA 45ACP, why wouldn't I dry fire with it before going to the range. Wouldn't need a replica. Just asking.
 
As Wirenut mentioned in his post, using a replica that is the exact weight, etc, prior to going to the range, I can see it being beneficial as far as maintaining muscle memory in drawing from holster, sight alignment, etc.
Don't quite understand...... I have my SA 45ACP, why wouldn't I dry fire with it before going to the range. Wouldn't need a replica. Just asking.
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You'll have to hear from him to answer that. I'd say because he can 😎
 
Hey 10, I attached a video from Classic Firearms on this pistol (they're already sold out on the site, but are offering it free in a give away contest.) The video is a bit shaky (Clint usually does better), but he does explain why the ATF does NOT consider this a machine gun and gave the OK to sell as a pistol. Apparently (and you'll see in his video), the ATF considers that this pistol has two triggers, since it takes two fingers for you to fire it. It has an enormous trigger pull weight, and although not impossible to fire with one finger, it's extremely difficult. But we know with the ATF, that just because it was ruled OK (like Bump Stocks) now, doesn't mean they change their mind and rule against it later. :mad:

It's a 44spl in disguise!:ROFLMAO:
 
The problem with 22lr is the ammunition is not consistent. Far too many times Ive had jams and duds in literally every weapon Ive shot chambered for it. More people may have succumbed to their wounds from a 22, but how many were still able to keep fighting before dying? Im on the fence on how effective it would be at producing incapacitation when it needs to, vs proven fight stoppers. Too many unknowns for me to consider it when theres more reliable choices.
 
The problem with 22lr is the ammunition is not consistent. Far too many times Ive had jams and duds in literally every weapon Ive shot chambered for it. More people may have succumbed to their wounds from a 22, but how many were still able to keep fighting before dying? Im on the fence on how effective it would be at producing incapacitation when it needs to, vs proven fight stoppers. Too many unknowns for me to consider it when theres more reliable choices.
I agree. The ammunition is not consistent enough for me to trust the safety of myself or my family to it. That might be the reason I haven't heard ammunition companies developing self defense lines.
 
I agree. The ammunition is not consistent enough for me to trust the safety of myself or my family to it. That might be the reason I haven't heard ammunition companies developing self defense lines.
Agreed. Its far from something Id choose as a primary carry piece.
However, The IDF use 10/22’s for limited use in civil unrest:
Killing dogs in the vicinity of a target

Injuring leaders of violent demonstrations or violent participants of a violent demonstration.

The IDF uses it as a mid-range system that is “less lethal than” military caliber rifles (5.56mm/7.62mm) and capable of hurting severely enough to stop them using committing violence (throwing rocks or molotov cocktails).

Can be used more accuracy at distances, unlike a rubber bullet or baton round.

It is used when it is not safe enough to get close enough to use a rubber bullet or baton round.
 
Agreed. Its far from something Id choose as a primary carry piece.
However, The IDF use 10/22’s for limited use in civil unrest:
Killing dogs in the vicinity of a target

Injuring leaders of violent demonstrations or violent participants of a violent demonstration.

The IDF uses it as a mid-range system that is “less lethal than” military caliber rifles (5.56mm/7.62mm) and capable of hurting severely enough to stop them using committing violence (throwing rocks or molotov cocktails).

Can be used more accuracy at distances, unlike a rubber bullet or baton round.

It is used when it is not safe enough to get close enough to use a rubber bullet or baton round.
Wow, I never knew that. I know one thing, I don't want to get shot by a .22, that's for sure!
 
My personal experience with the .22LR has me shying away from it in self-defense due to - as many here have noted - inconsistencies in ignition.

This can be mitigated somewhat with revolvers, but with a couple of failures-to-fire, we're starting to really take a percentage of the firepower available...that's not necessarily ideal, either.

Overall, my firm belief is that any firearm is probably better than no firearm: similarly, that while yes, to assume that brandishing a firearm will stop aggression is bordering on magical thinking, the truth is that this does happen.

Reading this thread reminded me of another: this one from 2012, on M4Carbine.net, and features the interesting participation of SouthNarc, aka Craig Douglas, of ShivWorks. For those who are unaware, Mr. Douglas is one of the most sought-after integrated combatives instructors in the industry, and is known to work *_with_* those who are physically challenged (he came through town once, and I had to decline a friend's offer to take the class as I was coming off a rather serious injury; Mr. Douglas personally reached out to me to see if there was anything he could do, so that I would be able to attend).

Of his posts, I find this one to be most insightful:

SouthNarc on M4Carbine.net said:
...Thousands of untrained people defend themselves succesfully with sub-optimal firearms every year.

To say that an untrained person is better off unarmed than armed is absurd. I don't think it's optimal but do we really believe that unarmed is better than armed? If so then I'm not sure there's any elaboration that can get us to a consensus.

Similarly, Greg Ellifritz wrote this interesting blog piece a while ago:


Would I *want* a .22LR for self-defense?

No, I definitely wouldn't.

But if I had to, for whatever reason - even if it is literally right now, as I stand able-bodied?

I'd rather have it than not.

I'd rather shoot the threat a couple - or even just once - with the .22LR and *then* have to fight him off physically. ;)

That all said, I'm wondering what y'alls thoughts are about the .22WMR cartridge in this role.

I have only one firearm in this chambering, a Kel-Tec PMR30. Years ago, I bought it as a transitional teaching tool for my young (she just turned 14 last month), looking at it as a stepping stone between her .22LR Browning Buckmark and a full-sized 9mm handgun.

It's a lot of fun - a tremendous amount of muzzle blast and noise (which are the reasons why I haven't yet presented her with this option), but there's a distinct lack of felt recoil: the 30-round magazine in semi-auto is gone almost as fast as a full-auto Glock 18's happy stick (OK, no, the cyclic rate is not even close, but you get what I mean 😅:p).

I initially invested in some 6 spare mags, banking against the likelihood that if she liked the PMR, she might want a CMR too. With a 30-round stick that's a fraction of the weight of a 15-round 9x19 magazine, that's a lot of firepower.

But in terms of this weapon - the PMR 30 - I don't know that it can be successfully employed by individuals with weakened grip-strength or limited upper joint dexterity. When I purchased the gun, I happened to be at a large shop as they were running a sale. It was there that I noticed that unique examples of the gun offered differing trigger paths as well as were noticeably easier/harder to hand-cycle the slide. Given that it was during off-peak hours that I visited the store, the salesman and I went through some two dozen examples of the gun, to find one with a trigger path that I thought was reasonable, and which was reasonably easy to rack.

So, maybe not this specific gun, but rather, I'm interested in your thoughts on the .22WMR? :)
 
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I just trained someone on the Walther P22. The student had carpel tunnel and the 9 would leave the students hands aching after a day at the range. So the .22 was introduced to the student. After several mags, the response was that they were happy that the .22 did not cause any pain in their hands.
Sometimes people will shoot and carry guns one may not agree is adequate. However.... Something always exceeds nothing.
I would rather the student own and be proficient with a .22 than walk around unarmed.
 
I hear much about the .22LR having misfires. I started out years ago using CCI mini mags .22LR 36 grain HP. Then the place I bought the mini mags from was out so I bought some Remington .22 s . I had misfires a lot out of that box next I got some Winchester .22 LRs ... more misfires . I then bought more CCI mini mags and guess what ,,, no misfires.

I have shot more rounds of mini mags that I can even begin to guess and I can count the number of misfires on both hands without using all my fingers.

Would I make the .22 LR my first go to for self defense ? NO! I will say if I were going to have to use a .22 it wold be loaded with the CCI mini mags and that is what is in my NAA revolver right now .
 
I just trained someone on the Walther P22. The student had carpel tunnel and the 9 would leave the students hands aching after a day at the range. So the .22 was introduced to the student. After several mags, the response was that they were happy that the .22 did not cause any pain in their hands.
Sometimes people will shoot and carry guns one may not agree is adequate. However.... Something always exceeds nothing.
I would rather the student own and be proficient with a .22 than walk around unarmed.
"...Something always exceeds nothing."

👍
 
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