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.38 Special +P Data

Talyn

Talyn

SAINT
Founding Member
Questions and Answers for .38 Special +P loads.


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The old logic
Pitdogg2 said:
Why? That's why the make .357 😉
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Because while every apple is a fruit, not every fruit is an apple. Every 357 magnum shoots a .38 but no 38 shoots a 357 magnum.

;)

I keep two speed loaders in my bedside table with my model 60 loaded for the same .38 special +p load that the speed loaders in my wife's table for her custom 637 are loaded for. They can interchange in emergency.
 
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Cops carried 38 revolvers for most of the 1900’s and until the late 70’s early 80’s did so with plain Jane non plus p with LRN, Ball and SWC and gave a lot of bad guys dirt naps so maybe we worry about the wrong things!

On the other side I will give you 38 Plus Onis a whole different round out of a 4” barrel compared to a 1 7/8th inch snub it doesn’t get the velocity to do what it does out of a snub but somewhere between 3 and 4” barrel it does.

Yet people live to stuff plus p in snubs with lightweight allow frame and then complain about its not easy to shoot them scoff when you suggest wadcutters in snubby guns

All about the marketing!!!
 
Around 1930 S&W created the .38/44 High Velocity cartridge. This was a .38 Special loaded to push a 158gr lead bullet at approximately 1200 fps. Mine you, it was a true .38 Special having the exact same size, case and headstamped as such. It was just loaded hot as hell. In 1935 the case was lengthened just a bit and the .357 magnum was introduced.
To handle the pressure S&W chambered it in their large N-frame revolvers. These became known as the .38/44 Heavy Duty (fixed sights) and .38/44 Outdoorsman (adjustable sights). These later became the Models 20 & 23. the .38/44 was quite popular and were sold up until the mid-1960s until it was overshadowed by the .357 magnum.
I have three .38/44s and handload .38 Specials to the original High velocity specs for them. Its a hoot! 😁


https://imgur.com/f23yD8i
 
Grayfox said:
Around 1930 S&W created the .38/44 High Velocity cartridge. This was a .38 Special loaded to push a 158gr lead bullet at approximately 1200 fps. Mine you, it was a true .38 Special having the exact same size, case and headstamped as such. It was just loaded hot as hell. In 1935 the case was lengthened just a bit and the .357 magnum was introduced.
To handle the pressure S&W chambered it in their large N-frame revolvers. These became known as the .38/44 Heavy Duty (fixed sights) and .38/44 Outdoorsman (adjustable sights). These later became the Models 20 & 23. the .38/44 was quite popular and were sold up until the mid-1960s until it was overshadowed by the .357 magnum.
I have three .38/44s and handload .38 Specials to the original High velocity specs for them. Its a hoot! 😁


https://imgur.com/f23yD8i
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I loaded some .38+P cases to .38/44 loads.

I just ran them out of a 686, but I wouldn’t fret about using them in a K-frame.

Remember, Elmer Keith ran some of his .38/44 loads through a J-frame Chief’s Special when they first came out to demonstrate their durability…and I’m sure his loads were on the warmish side.;)
 
Bear in mind that in 1930 heat treatment of steel wasn't what it is today. Yes, the .38/44s could be used in the standard K-frame of the time, but it proved to be hard on them causing excessive wear in short order. That's why S&W chambered this hot round in the big N-frame.
Any modern .357 can use them. I'm sure most modern .38s could handle occasional use as well.
 
I shot the stew out of an issued Model 64 4 inch heavy barrel with 158 gr JHP +P in the early 80'S with no noticeable ill effects. I never noticed much difference in recoil or report. When we transitioned to 9mm 669/6906's in the mid 80's we used +P for duty as well, based upon ISP's experience. I wouldn't want a steady diet of that stuff in a pistol, though, as it does cause increased wear.
 
I forgot to mention that the designation .38/44 was for a .38 caliber cartridge in the large .44 caliber frame.
I should also mention that the .38/44 revolvers are simply marked ".38 S&W Special CTG".
Back in the days before lawyers got involved, people were expected to be smart enough to know what ammo was right for their gun. :rolleyes:
 
For those of us that carry steel frame 3 and 4” K frames I wish Hornady would do a 125-135 grain critical duty bullet in 38 special and ouch it around 1050-1,100 FPS with the hardness of that round I think the penetration and expanded would be just like the 9mm that Texas DPS, Kansas Troopers and the US Marshals and FBI have had great effects on bad guys!
 
ECS686 said:
For those of us that carry steel frame 3 and 4” K frames I wish Hornady would do a 125-135 grain critical duty bullet in 38 special and ouch it around 1050-1,100 FPS with the hardness of that round I think the penetration and expanded would be just like the 9mm that Texas DPS, Kansas Troopers and the US Marshals and FBI have had great effects on bad guys!
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I like the 158gr Remington SJHP in my 4” 10’s and 64. The 125gr+P version ain’t too shabby, either.

That, or the classic FBI load; 158gr SWC-HP +P.
 
HansGruber said:
I like the 158gr Remington SJHP in my 4” 10’s and 64. The 125gr+P version ain’t too shabby, either.

That, or the classic FBI load; 158gr SWC-HP +P.
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The 135 Gokd Dit is a great 38 special round and gives 12” in gel (just watched Chuch Haggard and a buddy shot some gel in a class I hosted) and while that’s fine I’d like to get 15” and I’m sure the critical duty stuff would.

That said yeah the 157 SWCLH is a great round as well I just like the profile of the Critical Duty and it basically cuts holes like a wadcutter if you look at its expansion.
 
For me it is the old "Dade Load". A 158 grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point loaded to +P velocity. With no copper jacket to fight, expansion of the soft lead is good even out of snubby barrels. And remember, most fixed sight .38 Specials are regulated to shoot point of aim with 158 grain loads. This load is long proven by law enforcement...the lead round nose was a thru and thru load with poor stopping results. When the cops changed to semi autos, it was not because they were not happy with this load, but rather the sidearms didn't carry enough of them!
 
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