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40 cal?

Im not sure what round of 180 grain 40 the authors getting 1,100 FPS from but on if he says so!

And as far as the 9mm “ineffectiveness “ at the time it was shot placement. Disclaimer im not faulting the agents it’s a freaking shootout stuff goes sideways but short of more penetration if they hit the BGs in the same place with a 45 they wouldn’t have had any different results.

The main downfall of 40 is it’s an example of bandwagon jumping. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great round IF people buy guns actually designed around the caliber. HL S&W M&P or the Sig and the 3rd Gen smith 4006 being all steel

Where folks had issues of course it’s snappy in a Glock that was a 9mm with a bigger hole drilled in the end. Why they had to go to a 3rd pin in 1990 wjem the Glock 22 frame crakes in the CHP trials. (Of course in 2022 Glock made a heavier thicker slide and back to 2 pins on the Gen 5 40 cal line perfection 30 years later)

And also people treat guns like their lawnmower so they didn’t replace recoil springs as they should in many of the 40’s and the 40 cal Glocks and others need springs changed twice as much as a 9.

As far as bandwagon jumping FBI had to blame the 9mm for the 1986 Miami shooting instead of shot placement. They could have went to a 45 but it was available before so to save face hey new 10mm and then they downloaded it to 40 cal the. 40 cal became a thing and agencies were sold some greatness!!!!

And the newest crop of 10mm fans short of Double Tap or Buffalo Bore or maybe Norma original loadings most of todays 10mm is 40 S&W ballistics in a longer case!
 
youngolddude said:
I didn't go for .40, 10mm or .45 GAP. I'm not going to go for .39 super carry or 5.45 x 28 either. I chose .44 Mag. over .41 Mag., too. Those are not for me and I support your ability to choose any of those if you wish.
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I’m with you. The only reason I chose .40 was because I wanted a Shield, they hadn’t started making them in .45 yet and at the time I was not at all a fan of 9mm.
 
I spent the last decade with the Gen4 Glock 23 as my issued work gun. I'm not particularly recoil sensitive and felt it was a decent gun for what I was doing. I like the Speer Gold Dot 155gr loading for it, although we randomly were given 155, 165 and 180gr ammo at the annual re-issue. I also like the .40 for shooting matches with a lot of falling steel targets.

Folks looking for absolute minimum split times have shown that the 9mm allows faster follow-up shots and I don't feel under-gunned with Gold Dot 124gr +P stuffed in one of the Wilson EDC X9's.
 
The top weight per cartridges will always be more snappy. An all steel gun would make it less snappy along with using lighter and faster bullets (doesn't have to be faster than equal same energy). I have an xdm 5.25" 40s&w along with a g22. The heaviest I shoot in that cartridge is 155's (165's in 10mm). The 40s&w wouldn't have been abandoned if 155-165's were used. A local person I know has a 4" xdm in 40s&w also that primarily used 180's. I made 100 rounds for her to test that equalled the muzzle energy of the 180's. From 135. 150, 155, 165's were used from various brands in fmj/tmj and hp's. She found better speed and control with the 135's.
 
Gotta remember, the FBI jumped on 10 mm for more power (good move-basically a mild .41 Mag) but it quickly proved too much gun for a lot of folks to shoot. The .40 was born as a 10 short for less recoil AND it fit a smaller lighter gun. As noted, in a light handgun it gets pretty snappy to shoot. 9 mm is, and has been, pretty soft shooting, and with better bullet design has pretty well taken back the police market (and the civilian market has followed suit). Grandsons agency just made the change in 24. Nothing really “wrong” with the .40, but a 9’s just easier to shoot (in a lighter pistol) and ammo’s a bunch cheaper. I never messed with the .40 (if I want more power a .45, .357, or .44 are viable options)
 
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Shibadog said:
Gotta remember, the FBI jumped on 10 mm for more power (good move-basically a mild .41 Mag) but it quickly proved too much gun for a lot of folks to shoot. The .40 was born as a 10 short for less recoil AND it fit a smaller lighter gun. As noted, in a light handgun it gets pretty snappy to shoot. 9 mm is, and has been, pretty soft shooting, and with better bullet design has pretty well taken back the police market (and the civilian market has followed suit). Grandsons agency just made the change in 24. Nothing really “wrong” with the .40, but a 9’s just easier to shoot (in a lighter pistol) and ammo’s a bunch cheaper. I never messed with the .40 (if I want more power a .45, .357, or .44 are viable options)
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Again, as I’ve stayed several other places:

A full power 10mm load was never considered as an FBI duty load; from the get-go, they were looking for a load similar to a 185gr .45ACP.

And 10mm is to .41 magnum as .40S&W is to 10mm.
 
like most of my stories, I've told this story before.

When I started carrying a concealed handgun and knew nothing about firearms beyond what I had learned in the Army.

I literally thought that I was going to walk into the gun store and have a choice of an M9, a 1911 or some kind of revolver. Of course other guns were available but I chose an RIA 1911 in .45 ACP because that's what I was familiar with.

Right before my concealed handgun permit came in the mail my wife suggested that I should get a .40 S&W gun because she thought the ammunition would be cheaper. When your wife tells you to buy a new gun you do it.
FB_IMG_1712333353430.jpg

I really wanted a Smith & Wesson 4006 but I could not find a used one to save my life.
Screenshot_20240405_101652_Samsung Internet.jpg

What I found was a CZ75B in 40 S&W. The 75B is a heavy gun. I think that's why I never noticed any excessive recoil from shooting 40 Smith & Wesson.

It was one of the most accurate handguns I ever owned but it wasn't on the approved list for HSS so I couldn't carry it at work.

when I worked for G4S they issued me an M&P 40 and when I took that to the range for training or qualifications at work. I noticed the recoil after about a box of ammunition. It wasn't a fun gun to shoot.

When I decided to streamline my accumulation of firearms my first requirement is it had to be on the approved list for the City and for HSS.

The city doesn't allow .45 ACP so that was out and my wife is not up to the recoil of a .40 S&W so that was out.

I became a 9mm guy by default.

I did actually finally find a S&W 4006. I'll never sell it but I never carry it either.
 
The Night Rider said:
like most of my stories, I've told this story before.

When I started carrying a concealed handgun and knew nothing about firearms beyond what I had learned in the Army.

I literally thought that I was going to walk into the gun store and have a choice of an M9, a 1911 or some kind of revolver. Of course other guns were available but I chose an RIA 1911 in .45 ACP because that's what I was familiar with.

Right before my concealed handgun permit came in the mail my wife suggested that I should get a .40 S&W gun because she thought the ammunition would be cheaper. When your wife tells you to buy a new gun you do it.
View attachment 55376
I really wanted a Smith & Wesson 4006 but I could not find a used one to save my life.
View attachment 55377
What I found was a CZ75B in 40 S&W. The 75B is a heavy gun. I think that's why I never noticed any excessive recoil from shooting 40 Smith & Wesson.

It was one of the most accurate handguns I ever owned but it wasn't on the approved list for HSS so I couldn't carry it at work.

when I worked for G4S they issued me an M&P 40 and when I took that to the range for training or qualifications at work. I noticed the recoil after about a box of ammunition. It wasn't a fun gun to shoot.

When I decided to streamline my accumulation of firearms my first requirement is it had to be on the approved list for the City and for HSS.

The city doesn't allow .45 ACP so that was out and my wife is not up to the recoil of a .40 S&W so that was out.

I became a 9mm guy by default.

I did actually finally find a S&W 4006. I'll never sell it but I never carry it either.
Click to expand...
I agree those cz are heavy my sp01 is a heavy gun
 
The Night Rider said:
like most of my stories, I've told this story before.

When I started carrying a concealed handgun and knew nothing about firearms beyond what I had learned in the Army.

I literally thought that I was going to walk into the gun store and have a choice of an M9, a 1911 or some kind of revolver. Of course other guns were available but I chose an RIA 1911 in .45 ACP because that's what I was familiar with.

Right before my concealed handgun permit came in the mail my wife suggested that I should get a .40 S&W gun because she thought the ammunition would be cheaper. When your wife tells you to buy a new gun you do it.
View attachment 55376
I really wanted a Smith & Wesson 4006 but I could not find a used one to save my life.
View attachment 55377
What I found was a CZ75B in 40 S&W. The 75B is a heavy gun. I think that's why I never noticed any excessive recoil from shooting 40 Smith & Wesson.

It was one of the most accurate handguns I ever owned but it wasn't on the approved list for HSS so I couldn't carry it at work.

when I worked for G4S they issued me an M&P 40 and when I took that to the range for training or qualifications at work. I noticed the recoil after about a box of ammunition. It wasn't a fun gun to shoot.

When I decided to streamline my accumulation of firearms my first requirement is it had to be on the approved list for the City and for HSS.

The city doesn't allow .45 ACP so that was out and my wife is not up to the recoil of a .40 S&W so that was out.

I became a 9mm guy by default.

I did actually finally find a S&W 4006. I'll never sell it but I never carry it either.
Click to expand...
Wow, that 4006 sure looks a lot like my 659. In my opinion one of the really prettiest semi-autos ever made. It's all stainless and heavy, so I never carry it. but it shoots like a dream with a recoil so slowly acquired it's almost like none there.
 
I tried several .40s when it was getting attention, giving it more than a fair chance. The only two that shot very well at all were a CZ75B and a Browning HiPower.

The BHP is the only .40 I’ve kept. Partially because it’s a BHP and I can’t let them go, and partially because of it being a good shooting .40.
Browning was one of the very few who didn’t just shove a .40 barrel and maybe a heavier recoil spring into a 9mm. They made the slide slightly wider and heavier, added another lug to the slide and barrel, and a heavier spring.

The slightly wider slide messes with the traditional BHP grace to me, but it still feels better than other guns.

The only time it gets shot is by the 4-H kids each year. On one of the handgun days, we let them shoot a variety of calibers to see what they’re like- .22 on up. I think mine is the only .40 between the club and all the instructors.
 
After my first retirement (early/vested) I moved to an all Glock .40 State agency. Gen 3 G23 was my introduction. Coming from a "Smith 9mm is the way" agency.

Moving to .40 was easy, so was the transition to Glock😉.

I now own 4 .40's. My own Gen 4 G23, a G27, a M&P40 1.0 (project gun) and a Ruger PC Carbine (to pair with the G's).

I would carry .40 now if my present agency wasn't all in on 9mm, outside of BUG's.
 
I’ve really only carried one .40…and that was a USP Compact that I swapped the barrel for .357 Sig.

Owned a P226 and 229, same deals. Had a FNX40 that I rather liked, but traded it away…

Only .40’s I have now are USP’s, and they really don’t get carried, or even shot…although the .40 Tactical is a tack driver, and very pleasant to shoot. Honestly, if I had to carry a .40, it would be that or the USP Compact.
 
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