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throwinrocks
Guest
I hope you're dry firing with snap caps. I had to send my hellcat to SA after breaking my striker. My fault since it says to use snap caps for dry fire. Lesson learned.
911 vs. Hellcat
- Thread starter AABigRick
- Start date
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throwinrocks
Guest
If you're worried about reliability surely you've watched this?
Hellcat: 20K Rounds & Counting! - The Armory Life
As a result of our testing, I have no doubt that the Hellcat is ready for whatever anyone is going to throw at it on the range and while carrying concealed.
www.thearmorylife.com
HansGruber
Ronin
Horrible, no...
But I thought it was particularly poor when compared to a Sig 365 and a Glock 43X.
A trigger upgrade is, in my experience, pretty much a necessary upgrade with all XD series pistols...
wmg1299
Professional
I own the Hellcat, a .380 ACP 911, and a 9mm 911. The 9mm 911 is kind of an odd duck, and is just slightly too big for me to discretely pocket carry. The 9mm 911 is barely longer than the 380, but it is just enough to make it stick out the top of a back pocket and print noticably in a front pocket. It is comfortable for IWB carry, but IMO any wardrobe that can conceal the 9mm 911 can most likely conceal the Hellcat. The .380 911 is my pocket carry choice. The 9mm 911 is a fine gun, and your wardrobe may be more forgiving than mine, but it just didn't work for me.
Guy Mancuso
Elite
I have the Hellcat and the 911 .380. I tend to like the 911 Trigger better. It’s very crisp in operation , not mushy feeling. My issue with the 911 is my sites. I have night sights coming. I wear bifocals so I need to see that front sight better , so a brighter one will help me. My Hellcat has the Sentinel red dot and I’m really good with that.
Guy Mancuso
Elite
glad you mentioned the 911 9mm. I had a feeling it maybe big for carry as the Hellcat for me is a little too big. I’m not a tall person so I do want concealed . I went to dinner last night and the 911 in a pocket sticky and I felt very comfortable.
Guy Mancuso
Elite
Thanks for the reminder I just registered both guns.
Rob Leatham
Operator
These 2 guns are pretty much the opposite ends of the spectrum for tiny guns. The 911 has a thumb safety and the hellcat does not. That may alone persuade you in one direction or the other. Maybe the mag capacity is the overwhelming detail? From a shooting standpoint, triggers are often the deciding factor of how well you like a gun. In the real world, I wonder if it really matters? The 911 trigger feels much different than the Hellcat. I have both and use both. One is more old school (Like me) with exposed hammer and thumb safety and the other the latest of the latest striker fired. I'd feel good with either so the real issue becomes one of personal preferance. You want a longer cocking type trigger pull or a shorter pull that has a thumb safety?
I’m fairly new to striker fired guns. They aren’t the hateful guns I thought they’d be. Nonetheless, having had the experience, I’ll be sticking with my hammer-fired guns, except for my Taurus G2C. I’d feel differently if all firearms had re-strike capability. It may be a sign of these panic induced times, but the quality of “factory” ammo is going down. Whether it’s the same shortage of components, or the fact that I’m buying cheaper brands so I can afford to shoot, but I’ve had a plague of light-primer strike issues in the past 4-5 months. I have to have a hammer fired gun with me at the range to fire off the affected rounds. Same ammo, cheap as it may be, fires flawlessly from my Kimber Micro 9, my Bersa Thunder 9, or my Beretta 92FS.
Haven’t had any problems with my Springfield 911s or my Kimber Micros, or any of my other 380ACPs, as they are all external hammer guns.
Shout out to Gary Ramey, President of Honor Defense, who gave me guidelines on filing down the trigger stop on my Honor Guard 9 in an effort to address the light primer strike issue...and promised to replace the grip frame for free if I screw it up.
Haven’t had any problems with my Springfield 911s or my Kimber Micros, or any of my other 380ACPs, as they are all external hammer guns.
Shout out to Gary Ramey, President of Honor Defense, who gave me guidelines on filing down the trigger stop on my Honor Guard 9 in an effort to address the light primer strike issue...and promised to replace the grip frame for free if I screw it up.
HansGruber
Ronin
I would recommend changing your SOP to a failure drill—eject the round and get a fresh one in—instead of relying on a second strike to ignite a bad primer.
I’ve seen too many people who said that they’d second strike, go “bang-bang-click...click...clickclickclick...with no bang,in classes and even competition. No bueno...very no bueno if it was a life or death encounter.
Better to just jettison that round ASAP and get back to work.
BangBang
Professional
Two ways to see the “second strike” capability. In a self defense scenario, you will fire until empty? If you get to that round that has a bad primer, you will assume your empty but presumably keep pressing the trigger, being in the moment and it may or may not fire that round? If it’s your 2nd round, you will now rack you’re slide to eject and load a new round, hopefully. Hopefully, in the moment you won’t drop tour mag assuming your empty with 6-7 rounds left in your mag due to a bad primer? I shoot several different brands of ammo and have rarely got a light primer strike but I will eject it, set it aside and later check it over and before I pack up I will load it and shoot or try to shoot it more or less out of curiosity.
In a self defense situation, you will want hits and less time with malfunctions. You get a light strike, rack the slide and get back in the fight. Those seconds can be life or death.
So, I’ve looked at a 911, and left the same as I feel about my wife’s Hellcat. it’s a shade small for my big hands. Otherwise, I love the pistol, no issues with striker fire causing a light strike. Pushed about 1K rounds thru and it’s still running like it should. The trigger is nice, I prefer that trigger over my Taurus G2C. Ironically, on the face looking the two over, the Hellcat doesn’t appear much different than my G2C. Putting it in hand however is a different perspective.
Best bet is to find a range that has both you can check out and put a few rounds thru before you decide.
If I had to go between the two, I’d go Hellcat.
Best bet is to find a range that has both you can check out and put a few rounds thru before you decide.
If I had to go between the two, I’d go Hellcat.
I personally think that the Hellcat is a much better deal. I have the XD9, and that was actually the first firearm that I ever purchased. I won't purchase any firearm that doesn't have a manual safety or a grip safety, so I am waiting for Springfield to offer one. I am tempted by the Sig Sauer P365. Sigs are decent guns, but I personally think that they are over-priced and over-rated, and I think that most of them are ugly..... After over 26 years in the military, I have acquired a taste for Springfield Armory and CZ firearms......
wmg1299
Professional
The original post got me thinking about my Hellcat and the 9mm 911, so I took them both to the range. I have large hands, so my pinky hangs off the 911 with the flush mag, and I don't quite get a full grip with the 7-round magazine. Both guns ran flawlessly with FMJ and JHP rounds, but I was surprised by how accurately I could fire the 911 even without a full grip. The 911 feels a little snappier, but seems to naturally get back on target. The trigger on the 911 is much better IMO, and the manual safety is easy to manipulate. If capacity is your main concern, then the Hellcat wins hands-down. As far as the actual shooting experience, I was somewhat surprised to learn that I prefer the 911. I think either would be a fine choice for concealed carry, but I recommend firing them back-to-back if possible.
I’ve about convinced myself that I need to get a 911 9mm. I love my 911s in 380 ACP, and recently added the Viridian green laser grips, so it still fits perfectly in the same holster. I’d imagine the 9mm version would have the same feel, and shoot as accurately. I’d probably get a decent trade for my Hellcat, though I haven’t quite given up on it yet. By now I’m convinced they need a new sight seater in the factory. There can’t be that many cockeyed shooters in America...that only have issues with Hellcats.
Guy Mancuso
Elite
Same boat. Have a Hellcat with Red dot and love it but had the 911 .380 which was so much fun to shoot but decided that maybe a 9mm might be better for carry . So I grabbed a Sig P938 9mm which is basically the same as the 911 9mm. Actually have 4 911 magazine as the are cheaper. I added a Streamlight TR-6 with light and laser and It’s really accurate even without laser. I’m using a Sticky holster for pocket or just drop in my pants and it’s such a nice carry gun. I’ll keep the Hellcat for home defense13 rounds is nothing to sneeze at and use it for camping and such. It’s also great as a range gun.
I do love the 911 style. Big thing is keep it clean. They don’t like to be junked up inside
I do love the 911 style. Big thing is keep it clean. They don’t like to be junked up inside
I have 2 Hellcats, one with the stock Tritium sight and the OSP slide with a Swampfox Sentinel red dot mounted on it, the other with no red dot and aftermarket Tritium sights. I put the Hyve magazine extension on both of the 11 round magazines that came with the guns so they now hold 14+1 rounds. I have put about 1000 rounds through each of them.
Here's a few observations. 1st, the trigger is fine as it is. There aren't any real problems with it functioning well and consistently, but like any trigger, it has it's own unique feel and I did find I was more accurate by moving my finger placement to more of the tip of my finger than I was used to. This kind of thing probably varies from person to person, but time spent on the range is what you'll need to get used to it.
2nd, the metal bodies of the 11 round and 13 round magazines are identical with the exception of how many holes are drilled in the back so you can see how many rounds are loaded in them, so it doesn't matter which one you add the Hyve extension to, they'll both end up with 14 round capacity. The Hyve does add a little bit more length to the grip over the regular 13 round extended grip, but not much. But, I haven't really seen any micro compacts with extra long grips, it kind of defeats the purpose of making it extra compact. If you have big hands, they are all going to feel tiny to you. I have some issues with arthritis flaring up so I also wanted a grip that was long enough to get all of my fingers, including my pinky, securely on the grip and that was a big part of why I picked the Hellcat over other guns. It seemed to have to longest grip of all the micros. That being said, I have pretty average size hands though.
3rd, the only safety on the Hellcat is the trigger safety. Personally I like that. For me, the less things I have to think about in a self defense situation, the better. I always carry mine in really well made and secure holsters with trigger guards and spend a lot of time training to draw with my index finger extended on the side of the weapon. But, that may not feel comfortable to you. If it makes you feel uneasy to carry something like that, you'll be less likely to want to carry it at all and end up leaving it at home most of the time. That's just going to be a personal choice only you can make.
4th, it's a 3" barrel and kind of snappy in the recoil department. I can nail tight groupings in typical defense situations at 5 yards or less, but I'm not going to be taking any hero rescue shots at a suspect holding a hostage across the street. Micro compacts have their limitations, so understanding that is a critical element when selecting one. The Hellcat is very accurate in itself, but I'm not good enough to nail 25 yard shots consistently with it. Understand your own limitations before choosing to carry a gun with a 3" barrel.
5th, having 15 rounds in my gun gives me the flexibility to put multiple shots on target when the situation might arise without feeling like I have to really focus on conserving ammo. 7+1 might sound like enough rounds until you run into 3 big guys wearing leather jackets working together to rob you and all moving at the same time. It might take 5 shots to stop just one of them or you might put an end to the situation with 3 rounds. Extra capacity makes me feel a lot more secure and that was a huge part of my decision to buy Hellcats. If you carry an extra mag, you're not going to run out of ammo anywhere. Ok, well maybe if you find yourself in the middle of the zombie apocalypse.
6th, one of mine came with the red fiber optic sight. I'm a professional musician, a drummer, and the places I run into sticky situations are usually at night when I'm loading my equipment after a gig. Most of the time I have a whole band out there with me, so there's enough people around to deter anyone from trying anything, but frequently, I'm in a dark back alley loading stuff by myself. In those places, the fiber optic sights are useless. If you buy a Hellcat, get one with the Tritium sight. Trust me.
7th, Red dots can be a help or a hindrance, depending on when, where and how you carry. They can increase speed and accuracy if you train a lot with them, but they can also snag on clothing or slow you down considerably if you haven't spent a LOT of time practicing sight acquisition with them. They aren't as intuitive as you might expect. If you are used to them and like them, bingo, there's a Hellcat for that. If your idea of training is watching a YouTube video, they'll get you killed. Bottom line, if you buy anything new, plan on spending a lot of time practicing with it.
And last, but not least, it's called a Hellcat. Seriously...What else do you need to know?...lol
Hope that helps some.
JA
Here's a few observations. 1st, the trigger is fine as it is. There aren't any real problems with it functioning well and consistently, but like any trigger, it has it's own unique feel and I did find I was more accurate by moving my finger placement to more of the tip of my finger than I was used to. This kind of thing probably varies from person to person, but time spent on the range is what you'll need to get used to it.
2nd, the metal bodies of the 11 round and 13 round magazines are identical with the exception of how many holes are drilled in the back so you can see how many rounds are loaded in them, so it doesn't matter which one you add the Hyve extension to, they'll both end up with 14 round capacity. The Hyve does add a little bit more length to the grip over the regular 13 round extended grip, but not much. But, I haven't really seen any micro compacts with extra long grips, it kind of defeats the purpose of making it extra compact. If you have big hands, they are all going to feel tiny to you. I have some issues with arthritis flaring up so I also wanted a grip that was long enough to get all of my fingers, including my pinky, securely on the grip and that was a big part of why I picked the Hellcat over other guns. It seemed to have to longest grip of all the micros. That being said, I have pretty average size hands though.
3rd, the only safety on the Hellcat is the trigger safety. Personally I like that. For me, the less things I have to think about in a self defense situation, the better. I always carry mine in really well made and secure holsters with trigger guards and spend a lot of time training to draw with my index finger extended on the side of the weapon. But, that may not feel comfortable to you. If it makes you feel uneasy to carry something like that, you'll be less likely to want to carry it at all and end up leaving it at home most of the time. That's just going to be a personal choice only you can make.
4th, it's a 3" barrel and kind of snappy in the recoil department. I can nail tight groupings in typical defense situations at 5 yards or less, but I'm not going to be taking any hero rescue shots at a suspect holding a hostage across the street. Micro compacts have their limitations, so understanding that is a critical element when selecting one. The Hellcat is very accurate in itself, but I'm not good enough to nail 25 yard shots consistently with it. Understand your own limitations before choosing to carry a gun with a 3" barrel.
5th, having 15 rounds in my gun gives me the flexibility to put multiple shots on target when the situation might arise without feeling like I have to really focus on conserving ammo. 7+1 might sound like enough rounds until you run into 3 big guys wearing leather jackets working together to rob you and all moving at the same time. It might take 5 shots to stop just one of them or you might put an end to the situation with 3 rounds. Extra capacity makes me feel a lot more secure and that was a huge part of my decision to buy Hellcats. If you carry an extra mag, you're not going to run out of ammo anywhere. Ok, well maybe if you find yourself in the middle of the zombie apocalypse.
6th, one of mine came with the red fiber optic sight. I'm a professional musician, a drummer, and the places I run into sticky situations are usually at night when I'm loading my equipment after a gig. Most of the time I have a whole band out there with me, so there's enough people around to deter anyone from trying anything, but frequently, I'm in a dark back alley loading stuff by myself. In those places, the fiber optic sights are useless. If you buy a Hellcat, get one with the Tritium sight. Trust me.
7th, Red dots can be a help or a hindrance, depending on when, where and how you carry. They can increase speed and accuracy if you train a lot with them, but they can also snag on clothing or slow you down considerably if you haven't spent a LOT of time practicing sight acquisition with them. They aren't as intuitive as you might expect. If you are used to them and like them, bingo, there's a Hellcat for that. If your idea of training is watching a YouTube video, they'll get you killed. Bottom line, if you buy anything new, plan on spending a lot of time practicing with it.
And last, but not least, it's called a Hellcat. Seriously...What else do you need to know?...lol
Hope that helps some.
JA
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