Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “A Century of Springfield Military Rifles — and Beyond” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/a-century-of-springfield-military-rifles-and-beyond/.
A Century of Springfield Military Rifles — and Beyond
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Talyn, that struck me as well when I proofed it the first time, but I hated to change GunSpot's "take" on it and put words in their mouth. I have a message out to them on it now to verify their thoughts on that. Will advise what I hear back. Thanks for reading!
GunSpot
Alpha
In the two models shot in the video that was not our experience. Both have a good bit of recoil but shooting them back to back we felt the Krag has much more felt recoil in the shoulder. The Krag is quite a bit faster. Our load was a 180-grain projectile that travels at 2,430 fps at the muzzle while the 45-70 is larger it's only traveling at 1330fps over 1,000 fps slower. I think that is what leads to more perceived recoil in the shoulder. Thanks for watching!
GunSpot, thanks for dropping in and responding!
GunSpot
Alpha
I do agree that going into the side-by-side comparisons we expected the 45-70 to be the roughest to shoot but we didn't think it was.
Talyn
SAINT
Rifle Recoil Table - Sortable
In the table below rifle weight is given in pounds, free recoil energy is given in foot pounds, and free recoil velocity is given in feet-per-second. All recoil values have been rounded off to one decimal place.
If you see a 0 in the Recoil Velocity column it signifies no data available for that particular load.
| Cartridge | Rifle Weight (lbs) | Recoil Energy (ft-lbs) | Recoil Velocity (ft/s) |
|---|
| .45-70 (405 at 1330) | 7.5 | 18.7 | 12.7 |
| .45-70 (350 at 1900) | 7.0 | 37.9 | 18.7 |
| .45-70 (300 at 1800) | 7.0 | 23.9 | 14.8 |
| .30-40 Krag (180 at 2430) | 8.0 | 16.6 | 0 |
Talyn
SAINT
Available .45/70 loads vary greatly so it looks like you were shooting some "lite" Cowboy Action loads.
MidwayUSA’s website alone lists 44 different .45-70 Gov't factory loads. Those loads vary from Buffalo Bore 405-gr. bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2,000 f.p.s. for modern rifles only, to Remington Express cartridges loaded on the mild side for safe use in the old and new. Remington states a velocity of 1,810 f.p.s. for its 300-gr. bullet and 1,440 f.p.s. for its 405-gr. bullet. Those speeds are nearly 400 f.p.s. slower from the 18.5” barrel of my Marlin Model 1895 Guide Gun.
The original US Army load was..."This original black powder load pushed a cast lead bullet (405 gr.) at a velocity of about 1350 feet per second. With more than 1600 foot pounds of muzzle energy",...
Typical 45-70 ballistics with modern factory ammo are a 300gr bullet at 2,350fps (3,678 ft-lbs), a 325gr bullet at 2,050fps (3,032 ft-lbs), and a 405gr bullet at 1,330fps (1,591 ft-lbs).
MidwayUSA’s website alone lists 44 different .45-70 Gov't factory loads. Those loads vary from Buffalo Bore 405-gr. bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2,000 f.p.s. for modern rifles only, to Remington Express cartridges loaded on the mild side for safe use in the old and new. Remington states a velocity of 1,810 f.p.s. for its 300-gr. bullet and 1,440 f.p.s. for its 405-gr. bullet. Those speeds are nearly 400 f.p.s. slower from the 18.5” barrel of my Marlin Model 1895 Guide Gun.
The original US Army load was..."This original black powder load pushed a cast lead bullet (405 gr.) at a velocity of about 1350 feet per second. With more than 1600 foot pounds of muzzle energy",...
Typical 45-70 ballistics with modern factory ammo are a 300gr bullet at 2,350fps (3,678 ft-lbs), a 325gr bullet at 2,050fps (3,032 ft-lbs), and a 405gr bullet at 1,330fps (1,591 ft-lbs).
NTPD935
Alpha
OMG!!! How could you NOT mention Springfield’s M1 Carbine?Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “A Century of Springfield Military Rifles — and Beyond” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/a-century-of-springfield-military-rifles-and-beyond/.
One of the most manufactured firearms of WW2.
HansGruber
Ronin
Springfield never manufactured the M1 Carbine.
M1 Carbine Production
Inland Manufacturing Division, G.M.C...... | 2,632,097 | 43.0% | |
Winchester Repeating Arms Co................ | 828,059 | 13.5% | |
Underwood-Elliot-Fisher Co.................. | 545,616 | 8.9% | |
| * | Saginaw Steering Gear Div., G.M.C........... | 517,212 | 8.5% |
| ** | National Postal Meter Co.................... | 413,017 | 6.8% |
| *** | Quality Hardware & Machine Co............... | 359,666 | 5.9% |
International Business Machines Corp (IBM).. | 346,500 | 5.7% | |
Standard Products Co........................ | 247,160 | 4.0% | |
Rock-Ola Co................................. | 228,500 | 3.7% | |
--------- | |||
| Total: | 6,221,220 |
Source: https://fulton-armory.com/faqs/M1C-FAQs/M1Carbine.htm
NTPD935
Alpha
According to Springfield’s magazine, they did and wrote an article about it including photos. So, either they are wrong or you are? Check their recent publications.
HansGruber
Ronin
Link to the article?
And are you sure you aren’t confusing it with the M1 Garand?
Because I know for certain, I have NEVER seen a Springfield M1 Carbine.
NTPD935
Alpha
I only know what I saw and read in”The Armory”.
Trooper224
Alpha
So, an article about the arms developed by a government arsenal with which you share nothing with but an appropriated name. You try to make a connection by including you own product at the end. Rather disingenuous.Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “A Century of Springfield Military Rifles — and Beyond” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/a-century-of-springfield-military-rifles-and-beyond/.
HansGruber
Ronin
Pretty sure you’ve got it confused with a Garand—which Springfield DID make millions of.
That list I posted? Those are the manufacturers of WW2 Carbines that were put in troops’ hands.
HansGruber
Ronin
Found the article.
Review: A Springfield Armory M1 Carbine? - The Armory Life
Seeing as real MI Carbines have climbed into the $1,000 range recently, this BB recreation is a great option for backyard plinking fun at a miniscule comparative cost.
www.thearmorylife.com
That’s a modern reproduction air rifle.
Springfield didn’t make carbines in WW2.
shanneba
Custom
Shotgun News add ~October 1999
Another Springfield Armory Inc. advertisement in Shotgun News in June 2001 indicates their M1 Carbine receivers were still available. At the National Rifle Championships held at Camp Perry Ohio in the summer of 2003, these forged steel receivers were being sold at clearance prices at the Springfield Armory booth in the vendor area.
Post WWII Commercially Manufactured M1 Carbines (U.S.A.)
Recusant
Hellcat
The guns mentioned in the article were produced at the Springfield Armory and Arsenal. The Springfield Armory, more formally known as the United States Armory and Arsenal at Springfield located in the city of Springfield, Massachusetts, was the primary center for the manufacture of United States military firearms from 1777 until its closing in 1968. It was the first federal armory and one of the first factories in the United States dedicated to the manufacture of weapons. Today's Springfield Armory, founded in 1974, is an Illinois-based firearms importer and manufacturer that took its name from the nation’s first armory. Years ago, there were several companies that produced WWII era rifles with cast receivers and GI parts. Most of these products had issues related the cast receivers. The machining wasn't 100% to spec due to the dies and tooling used for production were basically worn out. These products fell out of favor with shooters and eventually vanished from the market.
Talyn
SAINT
As per HGs point, the original Springfield Armory never manufactured a receiver, nor a M1/M2 carbine in WW2 or the Korean War.
The commercial company Springfield Armory, had boat loads of surplus parts and then had receivers made in order to assemble and sell a non-mil M1 carbine, just like others did.
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