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Alabama Church Shooting

Per AL.com
A 71-year-old man who has previously attended services and functions at St. Stephen’s Episcopal Church is facing capital murder charges in the shooting deaths of a man and woman killed during a Thursday night potluck supper.

Vestavia Hills police on Friday identified the slain victims as Walter “Bart” Rainey, 84, of Irondale, and Sarah Yeager, 75, of Pelham.

An 84-year-old woman from Hoover, Jane Pounds, remains hospitalized with critical injuries.

The “lone suspect” was taken into custody after police were called at 6: 22 p.m. to an active shooter at the church.

His name is being withheld pending formal warrants.

The incident happened during a “Boomers Potluck” dinner that started at 5 p.m. at the church.

There were about 25 at the dinner in the parish hall.

A man calling himself “Mr. Smith” was sitting alone and a longtime church member approached him and invited him to sit at a table, said the Rev. Doug Carpenter, who founded the church in 1973 and retired in 2005.

“Mr. Smith” refused to join them and later pulled out a handgun and shot three people, Carpenter said.

Jim Musgrove, a church member, hit the shooter with a chair and wrestled the gun away from him, Carpenter said.

“It was extremely critical in saving lives,’' said Vestavia Hills police Capt. Shane Ware. “In my opinion, he’s a hero.”

No one at the dinner knew “Mr. Smith,” who claimed he was a former member. “We’re trying to figure out who he is,” Carpenter said.

Law enforcement radio communications during the active shooter situation indicated that police were familiar with the suspect, knowing where he lived and what he drove.

Ware said he could not yet comment on any prior possible involvement with the suspect.

“Any past interactions involving this suspect are currently being investigated by numerous agencies,’' Ware said. “It would premature for me at this time to go into that topic.”

A possible motive has not been disclosed.

“The suspect has previously attended services at this church but as far as the motive behind this, it’s still being looked into by many agencies,’' Ware said. “It wouldn’t be appropriate for me to speculate.”

“At some point he produced a concealed handgun and began shooting, striking the three victims,’' Ware said.

“The suspect acted alone,’' Ware said. “There is no threat to the community.”
 
I proposed and organized an armed security team in my church. The team was made up of almost all active/retired police and retired military. During church events, if we did not recognize someone, 2 of us would intercept the new face, greet him/her politely and ask if we could be of help. One security member would stand in front and the other on the side observing the body language and looking for weapons with OC at the ready. If something did not smell right, we asked the person to leave.
 
BobT said:
I proposed and organized an armed security team in my church. The team was made up of almost all active/retired police and retired military. During church events, if we did not recognize someone, 2 of us would intercept the new face, greet him/her politely and ask if we could be of help. One security member would stand in front and the other on the side observing the body language and looking for weapons with OC at the ready. If something did not smell right, we asked the person to leave.
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Unfortunately a lot of these savages that act out are known faces just like the guy in the Christ church shooting.

Either way having an armed trained security team is a great deterrent for most bad actors.
 
the last news report I heard was the the shooter had an FFL. It seems that soon churches will has to issue ID cards to their members and wand everyone who enters the building. I don't understand what's happening to people in this country! It seems one is not really safe outside of his or her own home.
 
Recusant said:
the last news report I heard was the the shooter had an FFL. It seems that soon churches will has to issue ID cards to their members and wand everyone who enters the building. I don't understand what's happening to people in this country! It seems one is not really safe outside of his or her own home.
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So apparently he was a gunsmith, weird thing is I pretty much I know all of the gunsmith’s in the area And have never heard of this guy. Being a gunsmith my self I make it my business to know everyone in the business around me. Also apparently he has some “history” like DUI and impersonating an officer.
 
BobT said:
I proposed and organized an armed security team in my church. The team was made up of almost all active/retired police and retired military. During church events, if we did not recognize someone, 2 of us would intercept the new face, greet him/her politely and ask if we could be of help. One security member would stand in front and the other on the side observing the body language and looking for weapons with OC at the ready. If something did not smell right, we asked the person to leave.
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Very well done. This type of intervention will become common place everywhere.
 
HayesGreener said:
You can make yourself crazy trying to find the logic in crazy behavior. I would want to see the result of physical and psychiatric evaluations of the shooter and his demons.
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I’ve always said wouldn’t it so much better that if these types of people wanted to make a statement that they just off themselves instead of shooting innocent people.
 
HayesGreener said:
You can make yourself crazy trying to find the logic in crazy behavior. I would want to see the result of physical and psychiatric evaluations of the shooter and his demons.
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Since most of us will never experience hallucinations and delusions we will never know what is like to be "crazy".
Hallucinations cause a break from reality that affects your senses and perceptions, while delusions affect your thoughts and beliefs. Up until the mid 1970s folks experiencing full blown psychotic or schizophrenic behaviors were locked up in state-run mental hospitals for most of their lives. Until antipsychotic and antidepressant medications came along there were really no treatment options for people experiencing these disorders. Folks that stay on their meds can function on their own in society. What alarms me is the growing numbers in the population with an antisocial personality disorder which is basicly a pervasive pattern of disregard for the safety and rights of others. The DSM-5 defines antisocial personality as someone having three or more of the following traits:
  • Regularly breaks or flouts the law
  • Constantly lies and deceives others
  • Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead
  • Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
  • Has little regard for the safety of others
  • Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
  • Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt
Long prison terms usually end up as the only treatment option for many with this disorder. Researchers say that the antisocial personality is either a genetic predisposition or the result of environmental factors. Some psychopaths can function very well in society, where as sociopaths tend to act out on their impulses with little disregard for the risks or consequences of their actions. Because of their violent tendencies sociopaths get more attention from LE. Because the degree of one's mental illness is in the eyes of the beholder trying to figure out who is truely dangerous unfortunately eludes us until it's too late.
 
Bottom line when dealing with crazy people:
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It's tremendously sad to see what our society has come to. Churches now need to have armed security and plans in place to protect those who choose to attend. I just hope that would-be mass murderers realize that many churches aren't the soft targets they presume them to be. Now if we could get some grown-ups to do the same thing in our schools.
 
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