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AR Pistol Forearm Grip

BET7 said:
Yup, did a quick search for a more recent ATF letter before posting my reply and couldn't find any. It doesn't mean one doesn't exist, just that I couldn't find it after a 15 minute search or so. It's why I mentioned those interested in mounting an angle brace should do their own research. I did find plenty of recent forums 2018-2019 pointing to the 2010-2011 letter as being the latest, but that's hardly an official declaration. Interesting, I found a recent article about the ATF bring charges against an Ohio man that owned a AR pistol with brace, angle grip and Flash Suppressor (supposedly all legal under their own guidelines). They claimed the parts added, made it a SBR, but he was found not guilty of the charges by a jury. So even if I found a more recent letter indicating it was OK, it's apparent the ATF yahoos, could still try to prosecute someone that was within the law, putting ones hope on a Jury or Judge.

www.range365.com

ATF Prosecutes Ohio Man for AR Pistol with Brace

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has defied its own definitions, saying that adding a pistol brace to a pistol made it a short-barreled rifle.
www.range365.com www.range365.com
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Yep the Ohio incident is well known & quite the cluster f... in various ways IMO.
 
RandomHero said:
Ok they used to be legal. Then another person wrote in to the ATF and asked for clarification. The new letter States that all grips added to an ar pistol make the firearm an NFA item. Such that if there is an item attached to the forend that the weapon would be designed to be shot with 2 hands. Therefore under the description of a pistol it no longer qualifies as a pistol since they by ATF description should be fired with one hand. Do yourself a favor and don't add any grip to your ar pistol.
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If that's the case then they should have the handguard removed then you won't grab the barrel.
 
If the handguard wasn't intended to be grasped then why are there all these new "pistols" from a ton of manufacturers being allowed to hit the market? (Note - Being sarcastic) Especially since it's been over 6 months since the last well-known ATF letter has come out.

The latest are bolt action pistols w/detachable mags and folks are grasping them by the pistol grip and hand guard.

So IMO these manufacturers must have gotten a green light from ATF or they wouldn't be making them.

So folks can debate all about so-called "grips" when it's pretty clear the handguard is still a legit point of contact for support. That's why I went with a hand stop vs. getting immersed into the "grip" debate by chasing various ATF letters.

Maybe someone needs to write ATF another letter asking for another letter of clarification. o_O No, just kidding :oops:

My .02
 
Talyn said:
If the handguard wasn't intended to be grasped then why are there all these new "pistols" from a ton of manufacturers being allowed to hit the market? (Note - Being sarcastic) Especially since it's been over 6 months since the last well-known ATF letter has come out.

The latest are bolt action pistols w/detachable mags and folks are grasping them by the pistol grip and hand guard.

So IMO these manufacturers must have gotten a green light from ATF or they wouldn't be making them.

So folks can debate all about so-called "grips" when it's pretty clear the handguard is still a legit point of contact for support. That's why I went with a hand stop vs. getting immersed into the "grip" debate by chasing various ATF letters.

Maybe someone needs to write ATF another letter asking for another letter of clarification. o_O No, just kidding :oops:

My .02
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No :poop: !
 
TEXASforLIFE said:
No :poop: !
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The AR pistol by design has a pistol brace which is by design to be shot with one hand. Hence the brace. However... The manufacturer's that know ATF law says it can put hand stops on the hand guard not forend grips. The difference being a hand stop would be to stop ones hand from moving forward past the barrel "occasionally". The forend grip once attached would be designed to grip all the time. Bypassing the brace and shouldering it while holding onto the forend grip would be it's intended use. Makeing the pistol an NFA item by circumventing ATV ruling. If anyone decides to place or add a forend grip to their pistol would be doing so at the risk of being a felon in my opinion.
 
Here's a novel idea, how about we abolish the BATF & repeal the NFA (and all the BS that followed)??

Yeah I know. 1000 excuses why that can't happen. But try we must, boogaloo or bust!
Seriously, though, they're hands-down the most corrupt, inept, unconstitutional, lawless, and EVIL agency to ever exist in America! Let's not forget they have corruptly & unlawfully put THOUSANDS of innocent Americans in prison and murdered hundreds more, and don't even get me started about Fast & Furious. These d-wads are responsible for Ruby Ridge, Waco, and if some credible sources are to be believed, the Oklahoma City Bombing (The ATF apparently had nearly a ton of explosives improperly stored in the basement of the Murrah Building directly under where the daycare center was). This agency should never have been allowed to exist.
 
Apologies for bumping this from Feb, but I have been trying to educate myself and cannot determine the proper solution. Sounds like there is a lot of confusion around this subject, so that makes me feel better that I couldn't come to my own conclusion. I have a CZ evo with a magpul collapsible stock. I currently have a vertical foregrip which from what I can tell is a no-no.

If I were to keep the current set up, would I register under a SBR or AOW? I have no problem doing that, but can't determine which one this set up would classify under.

Also, would this below AFG vs my current vertical grip save me from SBR or AOW?

www.preppergunshop.com

Magpul MOE EVO Grip CZ Scorpion Black

Magpul Industries, MOE-EVO Grip, Fits CZ Scorpion EVO 3, Polymer, Black Finish
www.preppergunshop.com www.preppergunshop.com

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
scarhead said:
Apologies for bumping this from Feb, but I have been trying to educate myself and cannot determine the proper solution. Sounds like there is a lot of confusion around this subject, so that makes me feel better that I couldn't come to my own conclusion. I have a CZ evo with a magpul collapsible stock. I currently have a vertical foregrip which from what I can tell is a no-no.

If I were to keep the current set up, would I register under a SBR or AOW? I have no problem doing that, but can't determine which one this set up would classify under.

Also, would this below AFG vs my current vertical grip save me from SBR or AOW?

www.preppergunshop.com

Magpul MOE EVO Grip CZ Scorpion Black

Magpul Industries, MOE-EVO Grip, Fits CZ Scorpion EVO 3, Polymer, Black Finish
www.preppergunshop.com www.preppergunshop.com

Thanks in advance for any advice.
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Go SBR and put a proper stock on it...but current config would be AOW.

AFG would be fine without paperwork.
 
scarhead said:
I have a CZ evo with a magpul collapsible stock. I currently have a vertical foregrip which from what I can tell is a no-no.

If I were to keep the current set up, would I register under a SBR or AOW? I have no problem doing that, but can't determine which one this set up would classify under.

Also, would this below AFG vs my current vertical grip save me from SBR or AOW?

www.preppergunshop.com

Magpul MOE EVO Grip CZ Scorpion Black

Magpul Industries, MOE-EVO Grip, Fits CZ Scorpion EVO 3, Polymer, Black Finish
www.preppergunshop.com www.preppergunshop.com

Thanks in advance for any advice.
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If your evo is the pistol and not the 16in carbine model and if the collapsible stock or vertical foregrip you mentioned is installed on said pistol you would be in violation of the ATFs guidelines for what is classified as an SBR and can be charged with a serious crime.

The proper way to go if your intention is the install these accessories is to file a Form 1 with the ATF to turn your Evo into an SBR and only after you receive your approval and tax stamp can you legally install these accessories to your firearm. The Evo will not qualify as a AOW because it's sold as a pistol with a rifled barrel.

You can do as the others suggested and go with either an angled foregrip or hand stop I would also recommend the SB tactical brace made for the Evo pistol and it doesn't require additional paperwork to be legal.
 
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scarhead said:
Thank you very much 10mm. Greatly appreciate the help.
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No problem and welcome to the forum!

You will find a vast majority of the members here are willing to help with any questions firearms related and non-firearms related.

This is my current Scorpion setup!

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scarhead said:
Thank you very much 10mm. Greatly appreciate the help.
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Here are my two Scorpions (mini with 4" bbl, and other with 7" bbl), with their braces. (Disclaimer: @10mmLife copied my 7" Scorpion w/Brace, as I had it before him :ROFLMAO:). Both only have Handstops as @Talyn recommended, but I do have angled grips (so far ruled as OK by the ATF), on my 300 BO AR Pistols.
Sometimes I think 10mmLife knows so much on the ATF rules and procedures, because they must come visiting him a lot :sneaky:, but I can't be 100% sure about that).
But in all seriousness, Welcome to the forum, and there's no apology necessary for posting on an older thread. Like 10mm mentioned, this forum has a great bunch of people that are willing and have helped many a member including myself.


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