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AR10 or M1A Reliability

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PapaPiece

Alpha
I am looking to upgrade from 5.56 to 308 or 6.5cm. I currently shoot both Ruger Mini 14 and AR 556. I've have owned my Mini 14 since I was 18 years old, I just turned 62. I specifically bought the Mini 14 because it was modeled after the Springfield M14 and in my opinion what maybe the most reliable battle rifle ever made. My Mini 14 has never misfired or jammed any ammo that has been fed through it. My Ruger AR556 is only a few years old and hasn't had one yet. When I shoot along side friends who own other name AR style rifles they jam after 3 or 4 clips (none of them were Springfield Arms). Having said all this I am leaning towards the M1A Loaded but my question for you all is... Is the Springfield AR 10 as reliable as the M1A? Is the Springfield AR 10 more reliable then other AR style manufacturers? Which would you bring to a fire fight?
Thanks!
 
More often than not, malfunctions on any AR platform, if there's no breakages, is caused by lack of lubrication. Also, AR platform basically needs more lube every 200 rounds or so (less if you're rapid firing and burning off lube). The only other thing that affects reliability as much is how the gas system is tuned. An AR that isn't picky with ammo, and will happily eat steel cased ammo, is very likely overgassed. Which means it will beat itself up more, and have reduced parts life on moving parts.

It's not strange for high end ARs to actually be less reliable than your run of the mill rack grade AR. Looser tolerances, over gassing, can often reduce malfunctions.
 
I have no experience with the M1A.

My Ruger 556 has also shot anything put in it except Tulammo. The Tulammo bullets are too soft I guess and were breaking up while chambering leaving pieces of lead stuck in the chamber causing jambs. And they weren't little pieces either. Everything else shoots and shoots.

I got my SA AR-10 recently and so far it shoots any .308 I've put in it. I do have a bunch of ZSR 7.62 that it doesn't cycle properly because of low pressure. I have not tried any other brands of 7.62 yet.
 
bigx5murf said:
More often than not, malfunctions on any AR platform, if there's no breakages, is caused by lack of lubrication. Also, AR platform basically needs more lube every 200 rounds or so (less if you're rapid firing and burning off lube). The only other thing that affects reliability as much is how the gas system is tuned. An AR that isn't picky with ammo, and will happily eat steel cased ammo, is very likely overgassed. Which means it will beat itself up more, and have reduced parts life on moving parts.

It's not strange for high end ARs to actually be less reliable than your run of the mill rack grade AR. Looser tolerances, over gassing, can often reduce malfunctions.
Click to expand...

^ This is for AR-10s, right? Not AR-15s......
 
My most reliable ar10 is 1 that I built. Other than that I have bought a few complete uppers from Aero Precision that has never failed in 6.5cm. They have standard length rifle gas system with adjustable gas blocks. The only factory 308 build I have is a rock river that uses fal mags (not a fan) and has been perfect. I think they use different mags now? I would love too have a m1a, but I would do a custom build. No skin off SA and their m1a for sure. I'd say go for the m1a it's a work of art! My next purchase might be from Ohio Ordnance Works in the 1918 or the hcar. It would be fun too change the barrel out for a 270win!
 
PapaPiece said:
I am looking to upgrade from 5.56 to 308 or 6.5cm. I currently shoot both Ruger Mini 14 and AR 556. I've have owned my Mini 14 since I was 18 years old, I just turned 62. I specifically bought the Mini 14 because it was modeled after the Springfield M14 and in my opinion what maybe the most reliable battle rifle ever made. My Mini 14 has never misfired or jammed any ammo that has been fed through it. My Ruger AR556 is only a few years old and hasn't had one yet. When I shoot along side friends who own other name AR style rifles they jam after 3 or 4 clips (none of them were Springfield Arms). Having said all this I am leaning towards the M1A Loaded but my question for you all is... Is the Springfield AR 10 as reliable as the M1A? Is the Springfield AR 10 more reliable then other AR style manufacturers? Which would you bring to a fire fight?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
1 question? Why do you reference "clip" with ARs?
 
I put together 2 AR-308 rifles and both have been extremely reliable without any issues.

One is a Aero M5 platform and the other is a Matrix Aerospace AR-308.

Reliability can depend from firearm to firearm from the same manufacturer just like cars.

The more reputable the company the less chance you'll get a lemon.
 
There is no "standard" spec for the AR-10 .308/7.62 type platform. So each manufacturer is making their own interpretation of that "type" of .308/7.62x51 rifle.

Like 10mm says each "can depend from firearm to firearm from the same manufacturer just like cars".

When I got my "AR-10" type I did a lot of research on what makes offered the configuration/features that met my needs. I did not choose a SA Victor but went with a PSA PA-10 Gen 3 that had the features I want, and has been 100% reliable.

I've also used M1As for 35+ years. They are a different animal and have their unique idiosyncrasies. Mine are older models with USGI parts. There are little or no USGI parts in the current SA M1As, or other M1A makers have USGI parts in them since that supply is just about gone, although bit's can be found and their is an aftermarket.

There are aftermarket manufacturers for both AR-10 types and M1As but one must be aware of the pattern differences in the AR-10 types.

IMO, the AR-10 types are easier to use & maintain, are easier to mount an optic on, and with an adjustable gas block there is more ammo flexibility. Plus, mags are easier to find, and cheaper than M1A mags.

If you wan to go "old-school" that's fine, since it's all depending on your needs.

I suggest you look at the "range" of AR-10 type manufacturers', & their models, to see what they offer in your budget range, and how they have performed, vs focusing in on one make.

My .02

BTW - If you go with a M1A I'd start out with a Scout or Standard model. The muzzle blast on the SOCOM is pretty nasty.
 
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PapaPiece said:
I am looking to upgrade from 5.56 to 308 or 6.5cm. I currently shoot both Ruger Mini 14 and AR 556. I've have owned my Mini 14 since I was 18 years old, I just turned 62. I specifically bought the Mini 14 because it was modeled after the Springfield M14 and in my opinion what maybe the most reliable battle rifle ever made. My Mini 14 has never misfired or jammed any ammo that has been fed through it. My Ruger AR556 is only a few years old and hasn't had one yet. When I shoot along side friends who own other name AR style rifles they jam after 3 or 4 clips (none of them were Springfield Arms). Having said all this I am leaning towards the M1A Loaded but my question for you all is... Is the Springfield AR 10 as reliable as the M1A? Is the Springfield AR 10 more reliable then other AR style manufacturers? Which would you bring to a fire fight?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
I own both the SA M1A and SA Saint .308 AR.

Never had issue with either one.
I am on about 1000 rounds give or take on my Saint .308 and have had zero issues.

As for style/ ergonomics.

The M1A is more accurate of the 2 for me at 100+ yard distance groups. It is very balanced for the weight. A little slower on mag change reloads with the design. Long as a broom handle and tougher to get in and out of the sidexside UTV’s.

The Saint .308 is my go to for hogs in the dark. More nimble, quicker reload and better suited for 4 wheelers and UTV’s getting in and out of. Not as accurate as my M1A at distance, but still very accurate.

The M1A is more adept to less fast paced shooting like distance target shooting. my Saint .308 is more practical for rapid fire at hogs on the run.
On my 4 wheeler hunting hogs = Saint .308
In my stand or stationary shooting from a static location at hogs = M1A


Love them both. For different reasons.
I use both to steadily hunt hogs.
 
KillerFord1977 said:
I own both the SA M1A and SA Saint .308 AR.

Never had issue with either one.
I am on about 1000 rounds give or take on my Saint .308 and have had zero issues.

As for style/ ergonomics.

The M1A is more accurate of the 2 for me at 100+ yard distance groups. It is very balanced for the weight. A little slower on mag change reloads with the design. Long as a broom handle and tougher to get in and out of the sidexside UTV’s.

The Saint .308 is my go to for hogs in the dark. More nimble, quicker reload and better suited for 4 wheelers and UTV’s getting in and out of. Not as accurate as my M1A at distance, but still very accurate.

The M1A is more adept to less fast paced shooting like distance target shooting. my Saint .308 is more practical for rapid fire at hogs on the run.
On my 4 wheeler hunting hogs = Saint .308
In my stand or stationary shooting from a static location at hogs = M1A


Love them both. For different reasons.
I use both to steadily hunt hogs.
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As much as you post about hogs they must be reproducing in your backyard! 🤣

Loving my ar-10 also but no where near as many shots thru mine as you. It may be a while too with .308 at $35 a box for hunting loads, $33 a box for target.
 
Bear007 said:
As much as you post about hogs they must be reproducing in your backyard! 🤣

Loving my ar-10 also but no where near as many shots thru mine as you. It may be a while too with .308 at $35 a box for hunting loads, $33 a box for target.
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Sidebar Convo: (sorry to hijack for 1 min)

😂😂😂
Seem like it.
Access to 16,000 acres leaves a lot of hogs to go find …
This morning .. 2 of our spots had hogs at the same time .. like that way daily over tons of acres
C1146485-84E0-41AC-AB85-9428451C74E4.jpeg
 
TSiWRX said:
^ This is for AR-10s, right? Not AR-15s......
Click to expand...

Should apply to both. They are essentially the same thing. The AR10 chamber, and BCG are beefed up significantly, and the upper receiver is also beefed up to a lesser extent. The lowers have a larger mag well, but are usually just as thin. The buffer tube thread area is usually beefed up a little bit. These areas account for the majority of the weight gain going from an AR15 to AR10 platform (2-3 lbs).

The AR10 is actually the original design, and the AR15 was a shrunk down version of the original. But because of adoption rate, the AR15's parts life breakages, and gas tuning effects on them is a lot more understood, and well documented. But most of the info should carry over to the AR10 platform.

I also wanted to add, if longevity and reliability is desired in an AR platform, you'll want to opt for a longer gas system. It'll cycle smoother, and accumulate wear/tear at a slower rate.
 
bigx5murf said:
More often than not, malfunctions on any AR platform, if there's no breakages, is caused by lack of lubrication. Also, AR platform basically needs more lube every 200 rounds or so (less if you're rapid firing and burning off lube). The only other thing that affects reliability as much is how the gas system is tuned. An AR that isn't picky with ammo, and will happily eat steel cased ammo, is very likely overgassed. Which means it will beat itself up more, and have reduced parts life on moving parts.

It's not strange for high end ARs to actually be less reliable than your run of the mill rack grade AR. Looser tolerances, over gassing, can often reduce malfunctions.
Click to expand...
- to which I asked -
TSiWRX said:
^ This is for AR-10s, right? Not AR-15s......
Click to expand...
- to which @bigx5murf
bigx5murf said:
Should apply to both. They are essentially the same thing. The AR10 chamber, and BCG are beefed up significantly, and the upper receiver is also beefed up to a lesser extent. The lowers have a larger mag well, but are usually just as thin. The buffer tube thread area is usually beefed up a little bit. These areas account for the majority of the weight gain going from an AR15 to AR10 platform (2-3 lbs).

The AR10 is actually the original design, and the AR15 was a shrunk down version of the original. But because of adoption rate, the AR15's parts life breakages, and gas tuning effects on them is a lot more understood, and well documented. But most of the info should carry over to the AR10 platform.

I also wanted to add, if longevity and reliability is desired in an AR platform, you'll want to opt for a longer gas system. It'll cycle smoother, and accumulate wear/tear at a slower rate.
Click to expand...

^ I must respectfully disagree, in that I have not found those assertions to be true of the AR-15 platform (.223/5.56), at all...

Quality/well-built ARs will run for literally hundreds of rounds without proper lubrication, and literally at intervals of thousands with proper and quality lubrication. The legendary BCM "Filthy 14" was perhaps the first to really bring this to-light to the masses, with the canonized article in SWAT by the late Pat Rogers, but since the explosion of open-enrollment civilian "tactical/defensive" carbine training, that kind of durability/reliability is now commonly seen every weekend during the shooting season.

Similarly, in terms of ammo compatibility/tolerance, it's been shown by many of the better manufacturers/builders that a properly tuned gas system - regardless of length - combined with a careful eye towards crucial tolerances that reliability isn't just a matter of having a gassy gun. We've seen particularly as of the last 10 to 5 years that individuals/entities such as the late William Larsen, Sons of Liberty Gun Works (SOLGW), the Primary & Secondary network and also Chad Albrecht of The School of the American Gun have all come forward to show us average-Joe/Jane gun-buyers and shooters the intricacies of the DI AR-15 system, to help not only in terms of troubleshooting, but armorer-level understanding.

Also, I again respectfully disagree that just because a gun is "high end" that it will be unreliable, specifically due to the fact that it may be running tighter tolerances. Factory builds by Sionics, SOLGW, LMT, Noveske, Knights Armament, Hodge, and many others can all be said to be high-end (it's been near-virally demonstrated just how "tight" Hodge parts -to say nothing of their complete guns- are), and yet these names are legendary and highly sought-after for both defensive/tactical-shooting range-rats (like myself 😅 ) and duty.

I concede that I definitely do not have the knowledge or experience with AR-10s to be able to say anything about them, but in terms of the AR-15, those lubrication and "tight gun" myths truly are just that: myths from bygone days.
 
TSiWRX said:
- to which I asked -

- to which @bigx5murf


^ I must respectfully disagree, in that I have not found those assertions to be true of the AR-15 platform (.223/5.56), at all...

Quality/well-built ARs will run for literally hundreds of rounds without proper lubrication, and literally at intervals of thousands with proper and quality lubrication. The legendary BCM "Filthy 14" was perhaps the first to really bring this to-light to the masses, with the canonized article in SWAT by the late Pat Rogers, but since the explosion of open-enrollment civilian "tactical/defensive" carbine training, that kind of durability/reliability is now commonly seen every weekend during the shooting season.

Similarly, in terms of ammo compatibility/tolerance, it's been shown by many of the better manufacturers/builders that a properly tuned gas system - regardless of length - combined with a careful eye towards crucial tolerances that reliability isn't just a matter of having a gassy gun. We've seen particularly as of the last 10 to 5 years that individuals/entities such as the late William Larsen, Sons of Liberty Gun Works (SOLGW), the Primary & Secondary network and also Chad Albrecht of The School of the American Gun have all come forward to show us average-Joe/Jane gun-buyers and shooters the intricacies of the DI AR-15 system, to help not only in terms of troubleshooting, but armorer-level understanding.

Also, I again respectfully disagree that just because a gun is "high end" that it will be unreliable, specifically due to the fact that it may be running tighter tolerances. Factory builds by Sionics, SOLGW, LMT, Noveske, Knights Armament, Hodge, and many others can all be said to be high-end (it's been near-virally demonstrated just how "tight" Hodge parts -to say nothing of their complete guns- are), and yet these names are legendary and highly sought-after for both defensive/tactical-shooting range-rats (like myself 😅 ) and duty.

I concede that I definitely do not have the knowledge or experience with AR-10s to be able to say anything about them, but in terms of the AR-15, those lubrication and "tight gun" myths truly are just that: myths from bygone days.
Click to expand...

High round count AR/M4's (over 100,000 rounds) and how they have handled on our range - AR15.COM

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This range is local to me, and I often bring visiting friends here as it's a great tourist experience.

This place is probably performing the most high round turnover on the AR platform anywhere on earth. Yes their various setups are limited, and mostly very mil spec. But most premium ARs actually stick very close to mil spec. There are some that make refinements that theoretically should extend parts life, and reliability (ie: POF roller cam, inconel gas tubes, etc). But all of them simply don't have the documented massive round count data on them, that mil spec has. Regardless of what their marketing claims.

The thread is extremely long, but it becomes obvious AR platform parts breakage is pretty consistent. As is lubrication schedules. Obviously there are other factors to consider such as firing schedule, and ammo quality.

Regarding steel ammo, especially surplus steel ammo. Properly gassed guns centrally will not run it without issue. A combination of poor chamber sealing from the steel, and the poor quality powders.
 
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