powerboatr
Professional
here he is
Are you over prepared ?
- Thread starter Bassbob
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here he is
Bassbob
Emissary
I think a great many people. especially those who derive most of their "Knowledge" from the internet, are dramatically "Over prepared". And when I say over prepared, understand that to mean in reality, under prepared or not actually prepared at all. Even if they are carrying things that could help them they are so compartmentalized under a ton of they don't actually need that they will never get to them in time. And I imagine the percentage of them that really don't know how to utilize the gear they bought is a rather large figure. People watch movies and look at internet videos portraying "Operators" and then try to emulate their load out. Which is frankly ridiculous. It's a well known fact that most soldiers when deploying in a combat zone for the first time are carrying 50% more crap than they will end up carrying after they have lugged that around for a few weeks. Sure it is partially a matter of figuring out what you actually need versus what you thought you would need and clearly one combat theater is different from another, but....
There are a few guys I train with who are ex/retired combat vets ( as well as some active duty). The active duty guys generally train in a different way than those who are now civilians. Of course even the "retired" guys, as well as those of us who are not military, partake in some of the ridiculous stuff the active duty guys like to do, just for fun you know, but those ex military guys are now concentrating on the type of training that is more appropriate for civilians and the circumstances we are more likely to be involved in. Training like soldiers can be fun and can sharpen skills that will be useful in civilian life, but concentrating on that stuff too much is very likely to detract from the type of training you really need to be doing as a civilian. My humble opinion.
they don't actually need that they will never get to them in time. And I imagine the percentage of them that really don't know how to utilize the gear they bought is a rather large figure. People watch movies and look at internet videos portraying "Operators" and then try to emulate their load out. Which is frankly ridiculous. It's a well known fact that most soldiers when deploying in a combat zone for the first time are carrying 50% more crap than they will end up carrying after they have lugged that around for a few weeks. Sure it is partially a matter of figuring out what you actually need versus what you thought you would need and clearly one combat theater is different from another, but....There are a few guys I train with who are ex/retired combat vets ( as well as some active duty). The active duty guys generally train in a different way than those who are now civilians. Of course even the "retired" guys, as well as those of us who are not military, partake in some of the ridiculous stuff the active duty guys like to do, just for fun you know, but those ex military guys are now concentrating on the type of training that is more appropriate for civilians and the circumstances we are more likely to be involved in. Training like soldiers can be fun and can sharpen skills that will be useful in civilian life, but concentrating on that stuff too much is very likely to detract from the type of training you really need to be doing as a civilian. My humble opinion.
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MrMichaelActual
Master Class
That is a good opinion if I do say... my training and the things I choose to train with are greatly different than my combat soldier times. Hell I could not even carry half that stuff now, so I got's to train smarter.I think a great many people. especially those who derive most of their "Knowledge" from the internet, are dramatically "Over prepared". And when I say over prepared, understand that to mean in reality, under prepared or not actually prepared at all. Even if they are carrying things that could help them they are so compartmentalized under a ton of
There are a few guys I train with who are ex/retired combat vets ( as well as some active duty). The active duty guys generally train in a different way than those who are now civilians. Of course even the "retired" guys, as well as those of us who are not military, partake in some of the ridiculous stuff the active duty guys like to do, just for fun you know, but those ex military guys are now concentrating on the type of training that is more appropriate for civilians and the circumstances we are more likely to be involved in. Training like soldiers can be fun and can sharpen skills that will be useful in civilian life, but concentrating on that stuff too much is very likely to detract from the type of training you really need to be doing as a civilian. My humble opinion.
powerboatr
Professional
i have seen people with so much STUFF in their bags that they cant find the darn screwdriver to tighten the scope screws..
for me...if you pack it...KNOW where it is in the bag and. not all tossed in like a bag of cheetos
for me...if you pack it...KNOW where it is in the bag and. not all tossed in like a bag of cheetos
rcurtner
Professional
I think a great many people. especially those who derive most of their "Knowledge" from the internet, are dramatically "Over prepared". And when I say over prepared, understand that to mean in reality, under prepared or not actually prepared at all. Even if they are carrying things that could help them they are so compartmentalized under a ton of
There are a few guys I train with who are ex/retired combat vets ( as well as some active duty). The active duty guys generally train in a different way than those who are now civilians. Of course even the "retired" guys, as well as those of us who are not military, partake in some of the ridiculous stuff the active duty guys like to do, just for fun you know, but those ex military guys are now concentrating on the type of training that is more appropriate for civilians and the circumstances we are more likely to be involved in. Training like soldiers can be fun and can sharpen skills that will be useful in civilian life, but concentrating on that stuff too much is very likely to detract from the type of training you really need to be doing as a civilian. My humble opinion.
Your post was really thought provoking, a lot of folks expressed many different opinions.I think a great many people. especially those who derive most of their "Knowledge" from the internet, are dramatically "Over prepared". And when I say over prepared, understand that to mean in reality, under prepared or not actually prepared at all. Even if they are carrying things that could help them they are so compartmentalized under a ton of
There are a few guys I train with who are ex/retired combat vets ( as well as some active duty). The active duty guys generally train in a different way than those who are now civilians. Of course even the "retired" guys, as well as those of us who are not military, partake in some of the ridiculous stuff the active duty guys like to do, just for fun you know, but those ex military guys are now concentrating on the type of training that is more appropriate for civilians and the circumstances we are more likely to be involved in. Training like soldiers can be fun and can sharpen skills that will be useful in civilian life, but concentrating on that stuff too much is very likely to detract from the type of training you really need to be doing as a civilian. My humble opinion.
Bassbob
Emissary
i have seen people with so much STUFF in their bags that they cant find the darn screwdriver to tighten the scope screws..
for me...if you pack it...KNOW where it is in the bag and. not all tossed in like a bag of cheetos
I just recently swapped gear from a pack I use for the range into a new ( sadly not as useful) pack and I discovered quite a few little things in there I have never used and likely never will. With the new pack I tried to be smarter about what, how and where I store things. It's not a GHB, just stuff that may be useful on the range or in classes. No reason for a bindle of paracord or 3 knives and a sharpening stone. lol
Pro Digy II
Professional
Very well said, good points and as always very valuable opinion. The is no denying the extreme marketing power of the gadget companies either: "MIL-spec", "harsh environment", "rugged", "tactical", ... And knowing what half-ass equipment is often deployed, it is almost comical to watch what the generic grunt gets to carry vs. the MI prepper. Couple exceptions for me: light, optics and 5.56 green tips.I think a great many people. especially those who derive most of their "Knowledge" from the internet, are dramatically "Over prepared". And when I say over prepared, understand that to mean in reality, under prepared or not actually prepared at all. Even if they are carrying things that could help them they are so compartmentalized under a ton of
There are a few guys I train with who are ex/retired combat vets ( as well as some active duty). The active duty guys generally train in a different way than those who are now civilians. Of course even the "retired" guys, as well as those of us who are not military, partake in some of the ridiculous stuff the active duty guys like to do, just for fun you know, but those ex military guys are now concentrating on the type of training that is more appropriate for civilians and the circumstances we are more likely to be involved in. Training like soldiers can be fun and can sharpen skills that will be useful in civilian life, but concentrating on that stuff too much is very likely to detract from the type of training you really need to be doing as a civilian. My humble opinion.
The guys who have been deployed, guys who saw combat or at least have been shot at ($hittiest "job" in the world: UN blue helmet
) are not necessarily the best ones to judge self-defense/home defense training or equipment in my opinion, as "destroy the target" is not necessarily the best approach anymore given the "threat" is civilian personnel.For training and our civilian life, I would trust ex-PD more than military to be honest. Still struggling with sprinkling the mags on the floor, AKA "tactical reload": this would be a boot deep up the arsehole if done on "the field". I still hesitate to do so and get mocked in classes. The f'ing AR C-clamp still drives drives me nuts, and I'm slowly warming up to the notion that we need JHP
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Hammer67
Professional
I think a great many people. especially those who derive most of their "Knowledge" from the internet, are dramatically "Over prepared". And when I say over prepared, understand that to mean in reality, under prepared or not actually prepared at all. Even if they are carrying things that could help them they are so compartmentalized under a ton of
There are a few guys I train with who are ex/retired combat vets ( as well as some active duty). The active duty guys generally train in a different way than those who are now civilians. Of course even the "retired" guys, as well as those of us who are not military, partake in some of the ridiculous stuff the active duty guys like to do, just for fun you know, but those ex military guys are now concentrating on the type of training that is more appropriate for civilians and the circumstances we are more likely to be involved in. Training like soldiers can be fun and can sharpen skills that will be useful in civilian life, but concentrating on that stuff too much is very likely to detract from the type of training you really need to be doing as a civilian. My humble opinion.
Agreed. There are quite a few guys who returned home from GWOT, retired, and then thought, "I'll start a firearms training school." And because they did x, y or z in the military, they assume that makes them a good instructor and they'll just train people the way they were trained. The problem with that (with all due respect to those who served) is that much of what they were trained to do in Afghanistan or Iraq isn't really applicable to the average citizen in the U.S., and these instructors fail to consider what their students actually need in their everyday life, and what is/isn't realistic and useful for them. Of course, the good instructors know that their citizen students have different needs and parameters than Force Recon, and translate the training to the audience rather than egotistically assuming that their previous experience is what people need.
And so training courses with these types of folks can be fun, and you might leave feeling like a slightly more qualified "quasi-operator" but how much have you honestly leveled-up in terms of useful skills?
And of course, we talk a lot about gear when we talk about preparedness, but that's often the least important thing. Mindset, awareness and regular training with perishable skills is what ultimately counts. A lot of gear can be improvised on the fly, if needed and if you are creative. And I don't care how much firearms training you have - you aren't "prepared" if you don't regularly train in first aid as well.
Bassbob
Emissary
I'm grateful that my primary instructor, while a retired 20 year combat marine, is also a ( very recently retired) 20 year police captain in one of the crappiest municipalities in St. Louis and a former swat trainer and Marksmanship instructor in both the corps and for the STL County Police. When I take his classes we are absolutely not training for combat. (I am usually the guy who stays after and helps him clean up, which also usually entails doing a bunch of stuff he won't do with a class of CCW students.) He makes mobile robots and sets up car jacking scenarios, street altercation scenarios, engaging multiple targets, etc. Most of our drills are performed with (naturally) elevated heart rates, i.e. after running your balls off. There is emphasis on legal, ethical and logical implications and it is stressed that job number one is avoidance and/or getting to cover or safety.
These classes are totally unrelated to the stuff I do with the crayon eaters and other random A-holes.
Hammer67
Professional
That's the sort of training for civilians we need to see more of, along with more contact-distance defense, imo.
Bassbob
Emissary
I have a couple mag coupler set ups stashed, one M193/one M855 because you never know when M855 is going to be necessary/helpful. On the range or in training I never waste the old green tips and they are not in any of my HD weapons.Very well said, good points and as always very valuable opinion. The is no denying the extreme marketing power of the gadget companies either: "MIL-spec", "harsh environment", "rugged", "tactical", ... And knowing what half-ass equipment is often deployed, it is almost comical to watch what the generic grunt gets to carry vs. the MI prepper. Couple exceptions for me: light, optics and 5.56 green tips.
The guys who have been deployed, guys who saw combat or at least have been shot at ($hittiest "job" in the world: UN blue helmet
For training and our civilian life, I would trust ex-PD more than military to be honest. Still struggling with sprinkling the mags on the floor, AKA "tactical reload": this would be a boot deep up the arsehole if done on "the field". I still hesitate to do so and get mocked in classes. The f'ing AR C-clamp still drives drives me nuts, and I'm slowly warming up to the notion that we need JHP
@Talyn is very smart about having set ups for each of his platforms ready to go to bug out quickly. I on the other hand am a world class procrastinator and general lazy bum. I have a ton of stuff that isn't particularly useful for most HD situations, but which would be useful for SHTF all accessible easily enough, but if I had to go mobile I'd be running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. lol I am in a pretty good spot to make a stand though and I justify my laziness that way.
As much of a shotgun junkie as I am you would think I'd at least have a rig set up for that which consisted of more than a dump pouch and cards on all my shotguns. It's disgraceful I tell ya.
Pro Digy II
Professional
I've got to say, I'm still cracking up at "Meal Team 6", 5h later! My wife's looking at me like I am a deranged animal (which happens often enough I guess
)
rcurtner
Professional
Have to admit it was very funny, creative gave me a good laugh I needed.I've got to say, I'm still cracking up at "Meal Team 6", 5h later! My wife's looking at me like I am a deranged animal (which happens often enough I guess
Gonna need a bigger plate carrier.
Pro Digy II
Professional
I have a couple mag coupler set ups stashed, one M193/one M855 because you never know when M855 is going to be necessary/helpful. On the range or in training I never waste the old green tips and they are not in any of my HD weapons. @Talyn is very smart about having set ups for each of his platforms ready to go to bug out quickly. I on the other hand am a world class procrastinator and general lazy bum. I have a ton of stuff that isn't particularly useful for most HD situations, but which would be useful for SHTF all accessible easily enough, but if I had to go mobile I'd be running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. lol I am in a pretty good spot to make a stand though and I justify my laziness that way.
As much of a shotgun junkie as I am you would think I'd at least have a rig set up for that which consisted of more than a dump pouch and cards on all my shotguns. It's disgraceful I tell ya.
I'll tell you what I regret the most getting because I know I do know better: I bought the marketing crap of "home defense" 5.56 and 308. Hornady ammo, looked cool with their little flex tip, "less penetration". It's 5.56 and 308 how is less penetration viable inside the home? It sounded cool, I pressed the "buy" button and kicked my own ar$e right after I paid for it. I do know better and still fell for it!
5.56 Green tip is all I have at home, the rest is for range. Whatever YouTube says, green tips punctures IIIA, so there you go. But that's not really home defense, more perimeter defense. Not gonna use 5.56 or 308 inside the home for defense (although with suppressor it's almost tempting), but all my optics are zeroed to my own property's perimeter and I don't change them, just Kentucky-adjust at the range (math is good for the brain). I used to have different magazine colors/capacity for green tip until "someone" (bless her heart) decided to reorganize "because it looked better that way"
Best of all, there's a 99% chance we will never know who's right as all we're going to "fight" is paper enemies, so many of our good or bad decisions won't have much of an impact. If we need to use anything, I'd wager luck will have a bigger say than gear, and at least half of the gear is going to fail at the "right" moment, no manner how pampered, well taken care of and clean this gear is maintained.
Here’s my take. I don’t have tactical stuff. I will never be running into battle nor will i be an army of one. I am not a hero, nor do i want to be. I am not trained for that and would probably do more harm than good. Honestly, i am not interested in going that route nor do i have that kind of $$$. (Although those all look pretty cool)
I have a plan and what i need to keep, or at least try to keep my wife and me safe at home. I have my bedside gun that feels like an extension of my hand now and a rifle that i am proficient with out to at least 40 yards (my range length) using iron sights if that is ever needed.
So for my needs and my abilities i feel i am adequately prepared.
I have a plan and what i need to keep, or at least try to keep my wife and me safe at home. I have my bedside gun that feels like an extension of my hand now and a rifle that i am proficient with out to at least 40 yards (my range length) using iron sights if that is ever needed.
So for my needs and my abilities i feel i am adequately prepared.
Bassbob
Emissary
To be fair anything traveling over 1200 FPS will penetrate IIIA, including M193.I'll tell you what I regret the most getting because I know I do know better: I bought the marketing crap of "home defense" 5.56 and 308. Hornady ammo, looked cool with their little flex tip, "less penetration". It's 5.56 and 308 how is less penetration viable inside the home? It sounded cool, I pressed the "buy" button and kicked my own ar$e right after I paid for it. I do know better and still fell for it!
5.56 Green tip is all I have at home, the rest is for range. Whatever YouTube says, green tips punctures IIIA, so there you go. But that's not really home defense, more perimeter defense. Not gonna use 5.56 or 308 inside the home for defense (although with suppressor it's almost tempting), but all my optics are zeroed to my own property's perimeter and I don't change them, just Kentucky-adjust at the range (math is good for the brain). I used to have different magazine colors/capacity for green tip until "someone" (bless her heart) decided to reorganize "because it looked better that way"
Best of all, there's a 99% chance we will never know who's right as all we're going to "fight" is paper enemies, so many of our good or bad decisions won't have much of an impact. If we need to use anything, I'd wager luck will have a bigger say than gear, and at least half of the gear is going to fail at the "right" moment, no manner how pampered, well taken care of and clean this gear is maintained.
