ARE YOU THE 1 %

[RickAnderson]

....What I found was, for the most part, high round count classes don’t do much besides burn ammo. Sure you can get some muscle memory work, but you can get that on your own...

Dry firing at home in a safe direction, heck not even pulling the trigger, just raising the pistol to sight in on the red dot a couple hundred times, produced the muscle memory that my next time out to the range I could raise my pistol and immediately have the dot in the window to fine tune that aim, and not hunt for the dot, taking time before it even appears in the window....

After taking a long hiatus from shooting, my first time out I was back to my old habit, when I would jerk a shot it was always low and too the left. Spent sometime dry firing, not even aimed, just watching the pistol to make sure it remained steady through the whole pull. Soon I was realizing, what I forgot from all those years ago, finger pad placement and how I had gotten lazy with that and was exerting some side force on the trigger and thus pistol instead of perfect directly back vector. Just playing with that and developing the muscle memory of exactly what part of my finger should be pressing on the trigger tighten up those groups and even jerked shots went from being a foot off to just inches off.

I am by no means a 1% or even an expert. And my eyesight issues make a Red Dot particularly advantageous for me, or I should say Iron Sights are now disadvantageous to me compared to the past, but I have seen improvements with a Red Dot, training myself with no where near the amount of training the experts are claiming is necessary...

 

[Sld1959]

So, now I’ll be a bit more serious, having gotten past the chest-thumping pretentiousness.

I have always enjoyed shooting handguns at ranges that handguns aren’t supposed to be capable at; I have no problems getting 5/5 on 4” steel with a 2” J-frame at 25 yards, for example; 100 yard shots with a 4” revolver or a 1911? It’s a fun game.

That being said…

I’ve been playing with a DeltaPoint on a VP9 for the past year or so. The other day, I went 8/10 on a 50yd 6” yard gong…cold. I dropped my third and 8th shot.

Running a Wilson X9, with tritium irons..I could beat it, but not with the first mag.

Anyone claiming a MRDS doesn’t give you an edge…is not being honest.

Pretty sure my X9 is going back to the mothership for an optics cut.

I am on the cusp of a green dot sight myself, I see green better than red. It's one factors that went into the choosing the P365xl in the first place.

I am not under any false delusions that an optic will not give an edge. I consider myself a good handgun shooter with iron sights. However there is too much evidence that they help to fool myself into thinking it would not make me better.

Side note, I find it amazing how many special services members there have been that find thier way to forums i have visited. I think personally I have read about the exploits of several thousand of them on forums. Makes one dubious to say the least. .

 

[nmedge]

I used to shoot quite a bit before covid. I am lucky if I shoot 200 rds a month. Ammo is still high here but I am buying a lot on line. Will probably stay at this level for a while. Still pretty good shooting for my age and time invested in it.

 

[Sld1959]

I like to shoot, and do a fair bit, not as much as I might like however. Being retired and with all the prices today it does limit me somewhat.

I know it does not replace live fire but I use a laser cartridge extensively and find it help keep things sharper than before.

 

[Bassbob]

I'm not sold on dots for carry pistols yet. I have one on a range pistol and it definitely is faster. I haven't spent anywhere near enough time with it to say it's more accurate, though at distance it almost certainly is.

I'm not really a guy that spends much time trying to punch through one ragged hole. My fundamentals are good and my speed is real good. My point shooting is good. My reaction times, situational awareness and ability to hit moving targets while I am moving and winded is decent and getting better. Inside 100 yards I'm wicked fast and don't miss with a shotgun. I could use more time with a carbine, but I'm not horrible.

When I'm too old to run and hide and duck and all that, then I'll maybe settle down and worry about tight holes in paper.

 

[RickAnderson]

I've seen folks carrying with a red dot. BUT, I see the arguments, battery goes dead, not that they are unreliable, but not nearly as reliable as iron sights, it can snag, interfere with the holster, both ways, either drawing or making a poorer fit to accommodate the red dot and thus more likely to fall out, etc...

 

[Honorman]

These are great responses and It’s interesting to see how everyone manages spending money on ammo against daily living expenses things can be tight. Sounds like we are doing are best in these high inflationary times to stay current. Very good input as usual

So, my training CV.

About 10-20 years ago, I spent a lot of money on classes…and expended a LOT of ammo.

What I found was, for the most part, high round count classes don’t do much besides burn ammo. Sure you can get some muscle memory work, but you can get that on your own.

I also found that any class with a low teacher:student ratio isn’t worth the time.

And while I don’t claim to know all there is to know…I’ve yet to come across a class for several years that can teach me something new; I just keep training with what I learned.

One thing, though—and this is important:

Anyone who really brags up their CV—was part of this or that team/unit/regiment/whatever? Particularly brags it up in various online forums, and need to bring it up every single time they post?

Almost certainly wasn’t.

The guys that have been there and done that don’t need to tell you about it.

Food for thought.

So, my training CV.

About 10-20 years ago, I spent a lot of money on classes…and expended a LOT of ammo.

What I found was, for the most part, high round count classes don’t do much besides burn ammo. Sure you can get some muscle memory work, but you can get that on your own.

I also found that any class with a low teacher:student ratio isn’t worth the time.

And while I don’t claim to know all there is to know…I’ve yet to come across a class for several years that can teach me something new; I just keep training with what I learned.

One thing, though—and this is important:

Anyone who really brags up their CV—was part of this or that team/unit/regiment/whatever? Particularly brags it up in various online forums, and need to bring it up every single time they post?

Almost certainly wasn’t.

The guys that have been there and done that don’t need to tell you about it.

Food for thought.

Hansgruber, I’m sure you have directed some of your comments to me and perhaps I should not of shared some information that I did. I have done a lot things in my career but I’m nobody special. I do get passionate about training issues but that’s because I have lost eleven very good friends in the line of duty during my career. I have never claimed to be the end word on things. Perhaps I’m more at home with the guys I worked and trained with. I just tried to talk about my experiences and provide information on how I could speak intelligently about certain topics. Maybe this is not the place for that and in the future if I provide any further input I will be mindful of that. However, for you to imply that I have not accomplished certain things in my career is incorrect. You have no idea what I have been through and what the price was for that. In other comms we do talk about our experiences and related issues as a way to learn from each other. So your point is noted. My best to you

 

[SimonRL]

I get to the range at least twice a week and I’ve only been at this long enough to have never seen an $8.00 box of 9mm. I’ve shot so much .22lr over the past couple of years that I don’t keep track. They’re like eating M&Ms- no such thing as enough. I have put a significant amount of time doing training courses and now @KillerFord1977 and I do private sessions with an instructor who has a very diverse CV of his own. As @HansGruber alluded to, when I was taking broader tactical courses I would go through volumes of ammo, but with these private lessons the round count is much lower and we focus more on technique and getting out of the comfort zone. Do I qualify as the 1%? I don’t think I really know what that means, but as many know I do spend a lot of time shooting ragged holes in tiny targets and if the time ever comes when I have to put my skills to use I will rise to the occasion.

 

[HansGruber]

These are great responses and It’s interesting to see how everyone manages spending money on ammo against daily living expenses things can be tight. Sounds like we are doing are best in these high inflationary times to stay current. Very good input as usual

Hansgruber, I’m sure you have directed some of your comments to me and perhaps I should not of shared some information that I did. I have done a lot things in my career but I’m nobody special. I do get passionate about training issues but that’s because I have lost eleven very good friends in the line of duty during my career. I have never claimed to be the end word on things. Perhaps I’m more at home with the guys I worked and trained with. I just tried to talk about my experiences and provide information on how I could speak intelligently about certain topics. Maybe this is not the place for that and in the future if I provide any further input I will be mindful of that. However, for you to imply that I have not accomplished certain things in my career is incorrect. You have no idea what I have been through and what the price was for that. In other comms we do talk about our experiences and related issues as a way to learn from each other. So your point is noted. My best to you

Just sharing my observations.

Take ‘em as you will.

 

[Sld1959]

Just sharing my observations.

Take ‘em as you will.

You were not alone in your observations.

 

[KillerFord1977]

There are those who would like to be door kickers and those who would like to run the competitive circuit.
Didnt have the opportunity to do either in my lifetime, so I lean towards competitive shooting on the range against myself and being a door kicker on hogs

 

[Honorman]

There are those who would like to be door kickers and those who would like to run the competitive circuit.
Didnt have the opportunity to do either in my lifetime, so I lean towards competitive shooting on the range against myself and being a door kicker on hogs

killerFord1977, I made the mistake of not knowing who my audience was in this forum. To be honest this is the first forum outside of Military/LEO that I’ve been involved in. In those communities things are much different where guys talk about their background, training and operational experience. I have learned that on this forum those things are not relevant and looked at as boasting. I assure you that was not my intent at all but that is how it was received. I live and learn and will be much more aware of what I write in the future if anything. My best toy you.

 

[Keystone19250]

So, my training CV.

About 10-20 years ago, I spent a lot of money on classes…and expended a LOT of ammo.

What I found was, for the most part, high round count classes don’t do much besides burn ammo. Sure you can get some muscle memory work, but you can get that on your own.

I also found that any class with a low teacher:student ratio isn’t worth the time.

And while I don’t claim to know all there is to know…I’ve yet to come across a class for several years that can teach me something new; I just keep training with what I learned.

One thing, though—and this is important:

Anyone who really brags up their CV—was part of this or that team/unit/regiment/whatever? Particularly brags it up in various online forums, and need to bring it up every single time they post?

Almost certainly wasn’t.

The guys that have been there and done that don’t need to tell you about it.

Food for thought.

There are many things about your post that are spot on, I don’t judge my training/practice sessions by the round count, I focus on shot placement and repeatability as well as stance and presentation. Unfortunately I don’t have in my area an outdoor range that allows movement from the shooting tables or drawing from a holster to shoot. The nearest is a day’s drive away.

In regards to those sharing their experiences the closest people to me that were veterans were my father and uncle. My father was in the navy aboard the Iowa as a second class ship fitter and only once did I get him to share exactly what he did as in moving around the ship welding plates of steel over holes while the ship was being shot at.
I’m sure terrifying.

My uncle was in the army and was in multiple battles and refused to talk about what he witnessed. Life altering.

 

[dad]

So, my training CV.

About 10-20 years ago, I spent a lot of money on classes…and expended a LOT of ammo.

What I found was, for the most part, high round count classes don’t do much besides burn ammo. Sure you can get some muscle memory work, but you can get that on your own.

I also found that any class with a low teacher:student ratio isn’t worth the time.

And while I don’t claim to know all there is to know…I’ve yet to come across a class for several years that can teach me something new; I just keep training with what I learned.

One thing, though—and this is important:

Anyone who really brags up their CV—was part of this or that team/unit/regiment/whatever? Particularly brags it up in various online forums, and need to bring it up every single time they post?

Almost certainly wasn’t.

The guys that have been there and done that don’t need to tell you about it.

Food for thought.

I had a friend that served two tours in Vietnam in the Marine Corps. He earned a Silver Star and a couple Bronze Stars accompanied by two Purple Hearts. He said that real soldiers didnt like to talk about their medals because thats where they lost a lot of friends and other good soldiers. I had known him for thirty years and knew he was a Marine but didnt find out about his time in country until he did an interview for my sons AP history high school class. So proud and glad I have the interview on video. Thank You to all you Veterans and current military. I have been active in Oklahoma American Legion Boys State program for 20 years and the finest men I have ever known are Veterans.

 

[dad]

killerFord1977, I made the mistake of not knowing who my audience was in this forum. To be honest this is the first forum outside of Military/LEO that I’ve been involved in. In those communities things are much different where guys talk about their background, training and operational experience. I have learned that on this forum those things are not relevant and looked at as boasting. I assure you that was not my intent at all but that is how it was received. I live and learn and will be much more aware of what I write in the future if anything. My best toy you.

Ther is a line from the TV show Sons of Will Sonnett. Walter Brennen was a gunfighter that said he was the fastest gun alive. When someone said he was bragging he replied bragging aint bragging when its fact. So share all you will cause it aint boasting.

 

[somorris]

There is another thread on the forum that is similar:

Prepared or Paranoid? The Vigilant Mindset

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www.thearmorylife.com

 

[Sol-Invictus]

The vast majority of successful self defense encounters involve people with no tactical training. If there are 2.5 million self defense uses of firearms a year and everyone trained well.... I think training classes for a gun would be like taking training class to use a weedeater. It is not rocket science.