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ATF preparing to regulate private gun sales with background check

shanneba said:
In a letter Wednesday to Attorney General Merrick Garland, Empower Oversight said it had learned from two sources that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was directed by the White House to make the change and “has drafted a 1,300-page document in support of a rule that would effectively ban private sales of firearms from one citizen to another by requiring background checks for every sale.”

Biden admitted his goal was to “move us as close as we can to universal background checks.”

justthenews.com

ATF preparing to regulate private gun sales with background check, whistleblower group alleges

Empower Oversight says power grab would be unconstitutional, usurping powers on Congress and infringing 2nd Amendment.
justthenews.com justthenews.com
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KMA, not a law
 
Old_Me said:
i have only sold 1 gun privately, to my shooting buddy.

i know he has a good background, cuz he bought his G-19 at the LGS.

but for me, even when selling my vehicles?

i trade them in and be done with any more responsibility.

which i'll sell my guns to the LGS, and if i want more money?

i'll put them on consignment, which frankly THAT SUCKS, cuz the potential new owner may not pass the background check (i actually had that happen), and it makes me wait LONGER for a sale..

so screw that route as well...

down right sale to the LGS, be done with it, for me....
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Which means that your guns even if they were purchased before the gun control Act of 1968 will be in the database
 
What would happen if you sold it privately then it changed more hands and eventually was used and seized in a crime? Wouldn't they be able to trace it back to the original purchaser with the 4473? This is something I always wondered about. I know people that have sold and just kept a signed bill of sale but I wonder if that will be enough in a worse case scenario.
 
In New Mexico ALL guns being sold privately must have a 4473 filled out at either a LGS or FFL unless you sell it to immediate family. It's a real pain and the cost is about $35 to do. The person purchasing the firearm pays for this. Has been this way for at least 4 years now. Don't get caught not doing this or forging paperwork.The state will get ugly and prosecute.
 
Marek71 said:
What would happen if you sold it privately then it changed more hands and eventually was used and seized in a crime? Wouldn't they be able to trace it back to the original purchaser with the 4473? This is something I always wondered about. I know people that have sold and just kept a signed bill of sale but I wonder if that will be enough in a worse case scenario.
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Yes, if the gun, new or used, has been sold through an FFL dealer since GCA '68, it's "on the books," both 4473 and FFL "bound book." New guns (and new imports) can be traced from the manufacturer or importer to the first jobber, wholesaler, or dealer, through however many steps, down to the first actual purchaser. From there the trail might or might not grow cold, but the first retail purchaser of anything made or imported since 1968 is theoretically easily accessible.
 
Marek71 said:
What would happen if you sold it privately then it changed more hands and eventually was used and seized in a crime? Wouldn't they be able to trace it back to the original purchaser with the 4473? This is something I always wondered about. I know people that have sold and just kept a signed bill of sale but I wonder if that will be enough in a worse case scenario.
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This happens a lot. When I taught and was around sales at a large gun store we would get frequent visits from ATF because a firearms sold by the store ended up at a crime scene. It was sort of like the Covid tracing in the pandemic back tracing who bought it them just getting info who they sold it to etc.

And for ones that think people keep their mouth shut and have boating accidents that doesn’t happen they talk. And many states it’s a charge if you don’t report a gun stolen.

While requiring background checks on selling a firearm is silly it really wouldn’t be that hard. If it goes through they will simply make it like Facebook and others and you are not allowed to list firearms for sale without a FFL or going through an FFl.

While there will be some that successfully skirt around it it won’t be many and it won’t be much as it will be a complete PITA. You will have to go to a Gunbroker type system where it’s an FFL through FFL type thing.

Hopefully it looses steam and is just blow from that side!
 
belladonna said:
I don’t get it though. If I want to sell a shotgun to my friend, cash in hand, as long as there’s no warranty stuff involved, here you go. No one is the wiser. I’m not planning to do that, just playing the devil’s advocate.
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If your friend dives off the deep end and uses the firearm you sold with no BG check number from the state police, Your goose is cooked and you get charged with a felony. That is my understanding.

I do not agree with it either.
In the past I would get the buyers FOID and drivers license number and expiration date and keep that with their and my signature for 10 yrs per the law at that time.
Edit: In Illinois
 
Jester560 said:
And get 1/4 of its value? That would be a nope!
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i do not buy expensive guns. (well except for my Dan Wessons, Colts,etc)

used guns are worth whatever the market will bear.

any gun i have sold up to now, have been under the $800 price point when new.

i also just aint got the time to fiddle around waiting for some schmuck to decide to buy mine on consignment then "maybe" pass the background check. then of course the gun stores (here) gets 20% for selling.....what did i gain?

the large LGS buys used guns for at least 65% of their selling price at their store...not MSRP. (higher prices offered for Colts, and a few others that hold value)

those of you that have friends that want to buy your guns, good for you.

i have no one here that has any interest, and those that do..?? they always wanna play the tire kicker game....and i ain't about to fiddle with ANY gun auction sites either.

better for me to dump'em my way.

i ain't screwin' around.
 
So, MN now requires some type of record for private sales, or that they go through an FFL (unless transferred between family members).

Also, MN requires a “permit to purchase”—basically, a background check—to buy handguns or “assault weapons” (I know, I know..). This takes the place of the Brady mandated waiting period, so you can walk out with the gun that day. A carry permit works as well.

I’ve sold…many guns over the years as private sales at gun shows, using local boards, or sites like Armslist. I’ve always required that the buyer have the carry/purchase permit and had them fill out a bill of sale (name, date, model & s/n) that I’ll keep.

I now just require going through an FFL, and, honestly…it’s easier. It weeds out sketchy buyers, and guarantees that the meet happens at a safe location. My position is that my price includes my paying the transfer fee.

Shrugs. I don’t see it as the end of the world.
 
Pitdogg2 said:
If your friend dives off the deep end and uses the firearm you sold with no BG check number from the state police, Your goose is cooked and you get charged with a felony. That is my understanding.

I do not agree with it either.
In the past I would get the buyers FOID and drivers license number and expiration date and keep that with their and my signature for 10 yrs per the law at that time.
Edit: In Illinois
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Get out of that Communist state
 
Old_Me said:
i do not buy expensive guns. (well except for my Dan Wessons, Colts,etc)

used guns are worth whatever the market will bear.

any gun i have sold up to now, have been under the $800 price point when new.

i also just aint got the time to fiddle around waiting for some schmuck to decide to buy mine on consignment then "maybe" pass the background check. then of course the gun stores (here) gets 20% for selling.....what did i gain?

the large LGS buys used guns for at least 65% of their selling price at their store...not MSRP. (higher prices offered for Colts, and a few others that hold value)

those of you that have friends that want to buy your guns, good for you.

i have no one here that has any interest, and those that do..?? they always wanna play the tire kicker game....and i ain't about to fiddle with ANY gun auction sites either.

better for me to dump'em my way.

i ain't screwin' around.
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In your case I would consider a Gunbroker account the transfer fee from an FFl to ship it is minimal and a lot less than what they charge for consignment.

I am talking setting up your own account if you use the stores account to list they get you.
 
ECS686 said:
In your case I would consider a Gunbroker account the transfer fee from an FFl to ship it is minimal and a lot less than what they charge for consignment.

I am talking setting up your own account if you use the stores account to list they get you.
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in my case, i will do it my way.

easy-peasy, wash my hands of the gun and the BS.
 
The Night Rider said:
When did the Firearms Owners Protection Act become part of the US Constitution?

FOPA is a Law, just like the 55 MPH speed limit is a Law. Laws can be repealed
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FOPA- did Congress make that a law? Im staying in Oklahoma, KMA to the rest of the country. I know an ATF Firearms enforcement specialist- we dont talk anymore 😁
 
CAPMARINE276 said:
FOPA- did Congress make that a law? Im staying in Oklahoma, KMA to the rest of the country. I know an ATF Firearms enforcement specialist- we dont talk anymore 😁
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It’s a law. Why do you think the ATF is supposed to discard 4473s after 88 days ? The Biden DOJ cannot unilaterally start registering gun owners.
 
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