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Be a “Good Witness” or possibly save a life?

KLGunner said:
Let’s say your in a Walmart at the register for check out and a couple registers down you see someone pull a gun on the cashier. You being a CCW holder do you react and pull yours or do you stand back and be a good witness?
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There is plenty of time to give your account of what happened later. There is CCTV video and other bystander for witnesses. I would like to say that if put in that situation and I was not going to further risk other lives unnecessarily than act to save a life. As a person with a gun when the LEOs arrive you will be treated as a suspect, but that will be ironed out soon enough. If we as CCW holders are not willing to step up when situations like this arise then, why carry. As John Lovell of the Warrior Poet Society says, " are you a collector or a protector?" I have always felt called to protect, I pray I ride and hold to that if ever in this situation. Just my two cent.
 
Sheepdog or no, there is (in today's world) the legal aspect as well. I live (and carry) in the People's Republik of Maryland, and we are forbidden by law to use deadly force in any other than life-or-death situations. "Money can be replaced, property can be replaced, those are not adequate reasons to use deadly force" is the basis of our carry law here. We are also not allowed to perform as Law Enforcement - i.e. getting involved in a situation that concerns "others", and not yourself. If your life is not in danger, you are not legally allowed to intervene in Maryland. Agree with it or not, those rules will affect the aftermath.

Shoot, and there could be very large legal trouble for you and your family in the future. Especially if you live in a heavily-regulated state such as Maryland.

Shoot BACK...and CCTV, witnesses, and the like, come into play. As does the argument that your life was also in danger, once that person became an active shooter.

We all know to line up our shot, fire from cover when possible, be aware of backstop, be aware of innocents, all that. If it comes time to fire, that all comes into play. But, there is a lot to consider in today's climate, BEFORE you decide to draw, or fire.

Protect human life? Absolutely, that is first and foremost. But as people licensed to carry firearms in public, we also need to be fully aware of the local laws regulating their use.

For those who are seriously worried about situations like this, I highly recommend checking with your local range to see what sort of "preparedness" courses they offer. No, they're not "prepper" courses that tell you where to squirrel away your ammo for the apocalypse; they're courses that prepare you for exactly this situation - all the tactical and physical details, as well as the legal side of action (and, ultimately, INaction if it applies to the situation at hand). Small details that make a lot of sense, like "if someone you know is with you in the situation, have them get immediately to safety, call the police, and give them YOUR description so they know you're NOT the threat". Having LEOs show up, see you with your weapon out over a body, and NOT knowing you're the good guy? Won't end well. Witnesses may or may not know what the threat looks like, but your friends/family will damned sure be able to describe YOU as a friend, and not a foe.

Being prepared is more than just knowing how to line up your shot.
 
Wow. Sounds like you need to consider moving onto the other side of the iron curtain. Communist states exist in our country. Maybe consider immigration?
Not trying to be facetious. Used to live in the gulag of Illinois. Now I’m in Missouri. Night and day difference. Not just re: 2nd amendment. All aspects. People are nicer, cost of living less, safer.

something to consider.

under the conditions you live in, 6 seconds becomes a minute.
 
Peglegjoe said:
Sheepdog or no, there is (in today's world) the legal aspect as well. I live (and carry) in the People's Republik of Maryland, and we are forbidden by law to use deadly force in any other than life-or-death situations. "Money can be replaced, property can be replaced, those are not adequate reasons to use deadly force" is the basis of our carry law here. We are also not allowed to perform as Law Enforcement - i.e. getting involved in a situation that concerns "others", and not yourself. If your life is not in danger, you are not legally allowed to intervene in Maryland. Agree with it or not, those rules will affect the aftermath.

Shoot, and there could be very large legal trouble for you and your family in the future. Especially if you live in a heavily-regulated state such as Maryland.

Shoot BACK...and CCTV, witnesses, and the like, come into play. As does the argument that your life was also in danger, once that person became an active shooter.

We all know to line up our shot, fire from cover when possible, be aware of backstop, be aware of innocents, all that. If it comes time to fire, that all comes into play. But, there is a lot to consider in today's climate, BEFORE you decide to draw, or fire.

Protect human life? Absolutely, that is first and foremost. But as people licensed to carry firearms in public, we also need to be fully aware of the local laws regulating their use.

For those who are seriously worried about situations like this, I highly recommend checking with your local range to see what sort of "preparedness" courses they offer. No, they're not "prepper" courses that tell you where to squirrel away your ammo for the apocalypse; they're courses that prepare you for exactly this situation - all the tactical and physical details, as well as the legal side of action (and, ultimately, INaction if it applies to the situation at hand). Small details that make a lot of sense, like "if someone you know is with you in the situation, have them get immediately to safety, call the police, and give them YOUR description so they know you're NOT the threat". Having LEOs show up, see you with your weapon out over a body, and NOT knowing you're the good guy? Won't end well. Witnesses may or may not know what the threat looks like, but your friends/family will damned sure be able to describe YOU as a friend, and not a foe.

Being prepared is more than just knowing how to line up your shot.
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I wanna quote this last paragraph a second time. Guys this is also very important if you are forced to react or take action

“if someone you know is with you in the situation, have them get immediately to safety, call the police, and give them YOUR description so they know you're NOT the threat". Having LEOs show up, see you with your weapon out over a body, and NOT knowing you're the good guy? Won't end well. Witnesses may or may not know what the threat looks like, but your friends/family will damned sure be able to describe YOU as a friend, and not a foe.”
 
Peglegjoe said:
Sheepdog or no, there is (in today's world) the legal aspect as well. I live (and carry) in the People's Republik of Maryland, and we are forbidden by law to use deadly force in any other than life-or-death situations. "Money can be replaced, property can be replaced, those are not adequate reasons to use deadly force" is the basis of our carry law here. We are also not allowed to perform as Law Enforcement - i.e. getting involved in a situation that concerns "others", and not yourself. If your life is not in danger, you are not legally allowed to intervene in Maryland. Agree with it or not, those rules will affect the aftermath.

Shoot, and there could be very large legal trouble for you and your family in the future. Especially if you live in a heavily-regulated state such as Maryland.

Shoot BACK...and CCTV, witnesses, and the like, come into play. As does the argument that your life was also in danger, once that person became an active shooter.

We all know to line up our shot, fire from cover when possible, be aware of backstop, be aware of innocents, all that. If it comes time to fire, that all comes into play. But, there is a lot to consider in today's climate, BEFORE you decide to draw, or fire.

Protect human life? Absolutely, that is first and foremost. But as people licensed to carry firearms in public, we also need to be fully aware of the local laws regulating their use.

For those who are seriously worried about situations like this, I highly recommend checking with your local range to see what sort of "preparedness" courses they offer. No, they're not "prepper" courses that tell you where to squirrel away your ammo for the apocalypse; they're courses that prepare you for exactly this situation - all the tactical and physical details, as well as the legal side of action (and, ultimately, INaction if it applies to the situation at hand). Small details that make a lot of sense, like "if someone you know is with you in the situation, have them get immediately to safety, call the police, and give them YOUR description so they know you're NOT the threat". Having LEOs show up, see you with your weapon out over a body, and NOT knowing you're the good guy? Won't end well. Witnesses may or may not know what the threat looks like, but your friends/family will damned sure be able to describe YOU as a friend, and not a foe.

Being prepared is more than just knowing how to line up your shot.
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To me. this explains everything. you have to know every nook and cranny of the law in your state. if you don't. there could be unwanted repercussions for not knowing your laws and what covers you. Assuming you are in the right is not knowing you are in the right.
 
Every situation where a life is threatened needs to be accessed and calculated before any action is taken as not to be the cause of an innocent life being lost especially by your own actions or mistake. Think before you pull and make dang sure you made the right choice whatever that may be.
 
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And don’t we have a moral/ethical responsibility to do the right thing? Not to inject big picture issues, but shouldn’t we at least say to ourselves: here I stand. I can do no other.

Should the laws we follow, when irrational, or tyrannical, or against the basic truths and tenets in the constitution be considered, then tossed to the side as wanting in the eyes of what we understand intrinsically to be Just and True?

I know this is a very specific and personal question. Feel free to ignore, or illuminate.
 
APPilot said:
And don’t we have a moral/ethical responsibility to do the right thing? Not to inject big picture issues, but shouldn’t we at least say to ourselves: here I stand. I can do no other.

Should the laws we follow, when irrational, or tyrannical, or against the basic truths and tenets in the constitution be considered, then tossed to the side as wanting in the eyes of what we understand intrinsically to be Just and True?

I know this is a very specific and personal question. Feel free to ignore, or illuminate.
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This is an awesome question. With the ways things are progressing it may be something we may all have to answer sooner than we would like.
 
APPilot said:
And don’t we have a moral/ethical responsibility to do the right thing? Not to inject big picture issues, but shouldn’t we at least say to ourselves: here I stand. I can do no other.

Should the laws we follow, when irrational, or tyrannical, or against the basic truths and tenets in the constitution be considered, then tossed to the side as wanting in the eyes of what we understand intrinsically to be Just and True?

I know this is a very specific and personal question. Feel free to ignore, or illuminate.
Click to expand...
Brother. I could write a book and cite case law and ethics standards in many texts I have studied in my quest to earn my CJ degree. This is a question that has been Central to many criminal and constitutional rights arguments 1A,2A,4A, etc. I appreciate the post. As a God fearing Protector of my family and in answering the call I have always heard, I can say that I would act in accordance to the law in so far as to show an effort to do so, until there was no alternative but to break said in an effort to preserve life.
 
I read a book about the fall of the Soviet Union. It hypothesized that the when laws become so unwieldy and absurd that no one paid attention any more, that moral authority was lost. The government fell, but didn’t realize it until they were so bankrupt they couldn’t pay the apparatus of oppression.
I wonder how much of that is applicable to our present conundrum. Been watching the 2A struggles in Virginia? The fall of California as a viable state?

please keep your opinions, thoughts, ideas coming!
 
APPilot said:
I read a book about the fall of the Soviet Union. It hypothesized that the when laws become so unwieldy and absurd that no one paid attention any more, that moral authority was lost. The government fell, but didn’t realize it until they were so bankrupt they couldn’t pay the apparatus of oppression.
I wonder how much of that is applicable to our present conundrum. Been watching the 2A struggles in Virginia? The fall of California as a viable state?

please keep your opinions, thoughts, ideas coming!
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As I have questioned the fall of the government many times I hope and prey it doesn’t happen. Hypothetically speaking if it were to fall tho I could see states like California being the start of it.
 
I've been hearing about the virginia gun control laws and thought that people were just exagerrating, and that it could not possibly be true. Then I started reading up on it and found that it is true. I could not believe what they were suggesting...
 
I am trying to figure out if Virginia is the test to see what they can get away with. I am worried about the precedent that is possibly being set and where it will lead in the future.
 
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