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Best way to conceal carry

TSiWRX said:
It really all depends.

There's a nearly infinitely variable matrix of everything from support gear (belt [even suspenders]/holster [and this can even be as specific as hardware, such as DDC clips that allow a lower profile or UItliClips which allows direct-clip to the waistband, to items like the various tuck "wings" (like the RCS Claw) that cantliever grip of the handgun more towards the body of the wearer]) to gear setup (i.e. clocking, cant, depth-of-ride, angling [via "wedges," be it self-added, official accessory, or directly molded-in, such as the Tenicor), to clothing, to the actual physical build of that unique shooter.

In terms of clothing, it's not just how loosely or otherwise oversized any one of us may choose to wear our shirts or pants. The material as well as how it is cut/constructed will conspire to create drastic changes in the final outcome, too. For example, eans with even slight amount of elasticity such as Duluth Ballroom Flex will accommodate hardware differently, than those without, and even seemingly rather mundane considerations such as the placement of belt-loops and the thickness of the material can all greatly affect how one sets up their gear and gear hardware (the belt thickness interface is a biggie, here). Subtle differences such as waist height and how the pants sit on one's hips can also play havoc, particularly if one crosses different clothing genres/styles depending on their life-needs (i.e. jeans to dress-pants, or even "yoga pants" and sweatpants).

Physical build can also cause dramatic differences to play out. A physically fit man or woman with larger chest measurements will typically cause shirts that are not tailored to lay close to the body to "tent" at their waist, and this will obviously play out in an important way where it comes to waistline carry of gear. While too young to legally conceal-carry at 14 years of age, I demonstrated to my daughter - an athletically built rower with a small chest (while my wife is rather generously endowed, my daughter is half Asian, after all!) - just what she could get away with if she decided to conceal carry as an adult, and she was shocked that she was able to *_easily_* conceal my 4.5-inch XDm9, a duty-size weapon, with the X300U WML, in a PHLster Floodlight, AIWB, under but a very, very whispy tank-top.

Towards this end, subtle individual variations in our physical builds - regardless of whether we are athletic, svelte or portly, none of us carry our bones, fat, and muscles in precisely the same way another does, even if the two persons examined happen to both fit one description. This, combined with variability in height and size, also will play out in tremendous differences in the effectiveness of differences of gear and differences in setup. I'm 6' even, a porky 250 lbs. on a medium frame (https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/type-of-holster-you-use-for-edc.172/page-2#post-5955 - there's pictures of me with Chris Costa and Robert Vogel in this thread, so you can get a feel for my size/build, and this post has pictures of me with Chris Cerino - https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/is-your-shooting-stance-wrong.146/#post-3819). I actually have a very hard time with the PHLSter Floodlight, concealing it in IWB strong-side at my preferred 2:30 clocking. At a class dedicated towards concealed carry last summer, a fellow classmate, about my height but athletically built and trim-waisted (no belly, but no 6-pack, either), easily completely concealed a Roland Special Glock 19, under a rather trim-fitting T-shirt.

The best way to conceal carry is to not be afraid to experiment with different gear and different setup until you find something that works for you and how you want to live (i.e. "dressing around the gun" is an ideal that, for some of us, is actually not feasible due to either workplace regulations or social implications). Vet your gear with either a good training class/instructor or by objectively timing your shot-to-first-hit (and shoot to a scoreable metric, at that) - video, such as that of Coachs Eye's HD/240 fps slow-motion, would be even better. Enlist the help of both your carrying and non-carrying friends to critique your level of true concealment, both static as well as when you're in-motion.
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Dude, you are a walking treasure trove of knowledge. Well said sir.
 
TSiWRX said:
Enlist the help of both your carrying and non-carrying friends to critique your level of true concealment, both static as well as when you're in-motion.
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I did this the other night. Having mostly carried my XDM OWB with my usual casually untucked fishing shirt, I took advantage of the wife and both daughters being here watching the Batchelor on Monday night to "model" for them with the Supertuck and the dress shirt and jeans I had been wearing all day. I asked them to tell me if I was "packing heat" and where. No one could tell where I was concealing, and they all expected me to have the LCP in one of my pockets, and were shocked when I pulled out my shirt tail and showed them the XDM in the Supertuck. So much so that they made me go tuck it in again so they could look again! Takes a minute to get a shirt tucked in down in that crevice between the clips and the holster for sure, especially not having done it before.

Someone that knows to look for the 2 belt clips or the slight bulge of the muzzle below the waist band I am sure would know you were concealing, but the fact is, most folks just are not looking at you that closely, and just don't notice things. If you don't tuck the shirt in either, you would be golden. I liked that I could tuck in my shirt, and not have to find somewhere to put my keys and cell phone, which is an issue with the pocket pistols. I usually end up clipping my keys to a belt loop with a carabiner if carrying in the pocket.
 
jfmorris said:
The importance of a good belt cannot be understated! I'll have to try a Crossbreed belt the next time I buy one and they have them on sale. Right now I have an Amish made Hank's belt, and its a really thick heavy duty, but not reinforced like the Crossbreed belt.

I agree with you on open carry. Aside from law enforcement, just too many folk would freak out, or just assume you are an off duty LEO, even though it is also legal here in Alabama.
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Never thought about a special belt.Great point !
 
Bloodknight said:
Although It is legal.I don't open carry.It scares people & I don't want to be a target.Plus a few other reasons.In the winter it's easy.Summer,not so easy.I carry a 9mm Ruger SR9c.Ive tried a bunch of options,but still open to suggestions.Smaller firearm is not an option. T-shirt weather will soon be upon us. inside waistband feels really uncomfortable & I need bigger waist size.
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As posted by others the belt makes a huge difference in any carry application, IWB does get better over time, and I do carry with a belly band when I run.
Alien Gear makes a great belly band holster, as do a few others, keep in mind I run in ball shorts and a dry fit tee shirt.
The only other suggestion I can offer if you prefer a larger firearm is switching to a revolver if you can deal with the lower round count. The least noticable, easiest to present, and most comfortable to pocket carry gun I have is a S&W 640 pro. The revolver lines lend themselves to hiding in the pocket.
Good luck with whatever you decide!
 
I have carried for nearly fifty years and have tried about every holster out there. I carry IWB in a holster that covers the trigger guard. Regardless of what I carry there is always one in the tube. This included when I carried a 1911 locked and cocked. Can not agree more that you have to have a substantial belt and may have to change your fashion a bit. Recently lost about 100 pounds so have to wear suspenders as I suffer from that dread disease, Noassitol. :D
 
Grifter said:
Dude, you are a walking treasure trove of knowledge.
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^ Yeah.....nope. :p:ROFLMAO: I'm much flattered and honored, but really, I'm nowhere near. The pond that I call my pool of knowledge is both narrow and shallow.

But heck, I do try to help when I can, based on what little I know. I try to give back to the same community that's given me so much. :)

A lot of that post above came from my years of buying different holsters and belts and trying them out, so a lot of this just comes from money not so wisely spent. I'm a gear-hoarder, so I actually don't mind, and just roll this into a part of my hobby. Just hoping to save someone from wasting their hard-earned cash, and to offer them a few words of encouragement when that XYZ piece of the latest and greatest gear somehow just doesn't fit them in the same way. :)



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Belts -

- Width
- Stiffness
- Thickness

These three characteristics interplay and are a give-take (additional considerations like stiffening inserts and/or various types of liners for the belt can also impact the interplay of these characteristics).

These not factors inherent to a "gun-belt," but rather, *_ANY_* belt.

This is the reason why there are alternatives which can serve very well as "gunbelts."

A custom leather dress belt. A climbing/rigger's belt like the Arc'teryx LEAF. A sturdy synthetic "work belt." These can all be used just as successfully for their intended purposes as they can to support the weight of a concealed-carry setup.

There's always that compromise of stiffness, width, and thickness, no matter what belt you choose - material, cost, aesthetics, etc. It's how you want to play with those three factors - based on your individual perception of everything from subjective comfort and how as well as what you usually carry - that will determine whether if any particular belt better or worse fits your individual needs.

Just because a belt is a known "gun belt" doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a good fit for you.

For example, if you wanted a very stiff synthetic belt but purchased the highly acclaimed The Wilderness 5-Stitch, you're probably not going to be a happy camper with the $50 that you'd just spent.

On the other hand, if what you're looking for is a wide, thick belt that's not too stiff, you'd likely be very happy spending just $25 for an "Amish" leather belt or Tractor Supply workbelt.

With a belt that has one or two of the factors absolutely locked-up, it can be lax in the third (or even the other two), and still be a very suitable foundation for even the biggest (weapons with a longer barrel/slide are actually easier to conceal as long as the clocking and cant are favorable) and heaviest of weapons.

Obviously, wardrobe choices will impact thickness and/or width considerations (i.e. if you wear jeans or khakis day-to-day, your belt choice may not be as limited as someone who wears off-the-shelf dress pants), but what's not immediately apparent is that stiffness can tremendously impact day-to-day comfort.

For the latter, it's easily demonstrated by searching up reviews that pit the Volund ATLAS belt versus the Ares Gear Ranger/Aegis. For example, one female shooter on the Ohioans for Concealed Carry Forums asked for specific advice on gun-belts because she wanted something that fit her manner of dress and which will not ride uncomfortably on her hips. In replying to that thread, I remembered something that Jake Sebens of Ares Gear explained to a female classmate in a high-end training class: that some's body-shape or other personal-preference issue simply makes his very, very stiff belts too uncomfortable (he graciously offered to let that student try on a demo to let her return it with no obligation, if she felt it was not for her). Towards that end, there's also men who feel that the Ares Ranger or Aegis is "too stiff" and cuts uncomfortably into their waist. This is actually one of the reasons why slightly softer/more flexible belts such as the Volund ATLAS - which "takes it down a notch" - have become so popular.

Similarly, consider that in today's AIWB-favoring atmosphere, shooters have also started to get away from super-stiff belts as they find that belts that are just a bit softer and conforms better to the holster are better able to take advantage of the gun-heel cantilevering "claw" or "wing."

Stiffness isn't the end-all and be-all. It's just one of the considerations. ;)

Thickness of the belt is also something that can potentially cause non-compatibility with the holster's anchoring hardware. Say the J-hook or overhook of a particular make/brand is not wide enough to really capture the full thickness of your belt - guess what? on the draw, it's possible to pop the holster clean out of the pants as the J-hook slides under the belt. A spring-steel clip that seems to hold tight in everyday wear but doesn't actually physically capture the other side of the belt (i.e. the belt is too wide for the clip)? try draw under stress and see if that holster doesn't come flying out, either with your gun or separate from it. This is definitely one of those areas that end-users need to be aware of and fully test/vet before carrying the weapon as a defensive tool: if I could have a dollar for every time I've seen a holster fly off someone's waist in a beginner-level class..... :ROFLMAO:

Finally, your "input" into the belt equation - how tight the belt is cinched at the waist - can also have tremendous impact on the draw.

The amount of pressure at the mouth of an IWB holster that an overlying belt exerts is obvious, but what's not so obvious is that if you don't cinch your belt enough *to you* (regardless whether that holster is IWB and under it or OWB and over it), when you draw that gun, the holster's own level of retention will literally "hang on" to that gun until your belt's upward motion is arrested enough by the adjacent belt-loops, and only then will it allow the gun to pop free and the draw to truly start.

Don't think that this matters that much?

I didn't think so, either, until Joe Weyer at the Alliance PD Training facility put us all on Coaches Eye's 240 fps HD slow-motion, and we got to see just how much time elapsed from when our hands got on the grip of our gun, to finally when the holster let go after it starts riding up our waist....

Can't see this in your mind's eye? Lemmie put it like this:

Let's say that I'm clairvoyant, and I tell you that you're going to step out of your house today right into a showdown at the O.K. Corral-type gunfight.

What's more, I'm now going to tell you that when that clock strikes three and as you establish that master grip on your holstered pistol, I'm going to come and clamp my hand overtop yours, and I'm not going to let you start your draw for, oh, let's say a tenth of a second?

You're going to cuss me out, aren't you? ;) A whole tenth of a second in a gunfight where I'm not going to let you clear leather...that's crazy, isn't it?

Yeah, it's like that, if your holster doesn't break retention *right then*.

In my limited experience, I find that to an extent, stiffness can help overcome the need to tighten the belt as much - but again, these are two issues that are very subjective in nature to begin with.

For my first low-light pistol class (May, 2011), I wore a SOE-brand 2" nylon "rigger's belt" that held two Safariland Slimline open-top dual magazine pouches (for a total of four 19-round magazines of 9x19) and a Surefire V70 holster (with Surefire Z2S-LED) on the support side, counterbalancing a Safariland 5188 STX light-bearing holster for my 4.5-inch XDm9 w/Insight M6. This belt is about as stiff as the Wilderness 5-Stitch - read: it's about as stiff as a limp wet noodle - yet, it held all that weight comfortably for me through the duration of an 8-hour course that saw us drenched literally to-the-bone from a passing thunderstorm.

The only real difference that I feel with that, in comparison to my typical setup today (Ares Gear Ranger w/3x 19-round magazines and the same 4.5-inch XDm9 in a Raven Concealment Phantom, plus a small dump pouch and a small blow-out kit), is that with the much, much stiffer Ares Gear belt, I don't need to wear it quite as tight.

But again, YMMV and all that. ;)


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One final thing to keep in-mind:

There's a lot of subjectivity at play here with "concealment."

What's an "acceptable" compromise between comfort/concealment/access for me may be the same for another person, barely noticeable and absolutely comfortable to another, and yet totally unbearable or unacceptable for yet someone else. Comfort is, by definition, subjective, and it plays a -HUGE- role in civilian legal concealed carry. Similarly, what any one of us would consider to be well concealed may be considered less so by another.

There's no hard right or wrong, here. :) A lot of it depends on personal preference/comfort and dress requirements.
 
I've had this conversation with a great number of people over the years. Do I open carry, or conceal? I always answer them with, what makes you comfortable? How have you trained? Do you have level 3 retention? I carry open, but have a level 3 holster. In the winter I carry outside the waistband because I wear a coat that covers the gun and holster. In the summer months, I carry inside the waistband, which in Wisconsin is considered concealed carry, even when it's visible.

In my opinion, we should all carry, and drop the first part. Carry as you wish. While I'm open carrying, I do keep my body between other people and my strong side. I walk next to walls or shelves that are on my right. I sit at a table in such a way that my firearm can not be seen easily.
we the people.jpg
 
jfmorris said:
I usually end up clipping my keys to a belt loop with a carabiner if carrying in the pocket.
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Forty five years or so ago my wallet fell out of the back pocket at a restaurant. Noticed it later, went back and got it all back intact. Ever since then I have used a truckers wallet. Wallet has chain to loop on the belt. Loop has a fastener to hold keys and stuff. Have never lost a wallet since. Just a thought..............🤔
 
I have 2 XDE 3.3 in 45 and 9. I prefer leather holsters for comfort. I use Barsony holsters, soft leather and a very legit steel clip. I carry in front pocket in cross draw configuration. This keeps the grip facing in which eliminates printing and I feel this is a faster draw than strong side carry.
 
For me it’s OWB with my XDM Mod2 40cal with extended mag. I use mainly a Galco and a Tucker Gunleather 1 3/4 wide Thick belt. Only open carried once and didn’t like it. Could tell people were looking at me. Conceal carry and cooler weather is easy with an extra shirt. Sweatshirt or jacket. I carry on my right hip and my Galco and new TGL holster keeps my Gun close to my body. In the summer I have no issues wearing and extra shirt. One tucked and one untucked to hide the gun.
 
Tactical-Reviews said:
I know an older guy that uses one of those shirts with a flannel shirt over it. He carries a full sizes 1911 .45 He's not a big guy, but you would never know he was carrying under his arm
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I have 5 similar shirts. They are made by an outfit called AC Undercover.

AC Undercover

AC Undercover we are committed to offering concealed carry clothing with the highest standards of quality and design. If you want to get the best concealed carry clothing, you can shop our products in our website or in any authorized retailer.
www.acundercover.com www.acundercover.com

I like them better than the 5.11 stuff. They do conceal perfectly under a button up shirt as long as it isn't tight. Leave a few buttons undone and access is pretty good. I use them for work, depending on the season. No one can tell you're carrying, that is a fact. You will sweat all over your gun though so wear a wife beater or something under them and order them tight. The sizing chart worked well for me.


These are strictly for deep concealment situations. On my own time I carry IWB in the summer under a baggy shirt or OWB in the winter under a flannel or jacket. In all situations it isn't open carry because I'm not printing.

I like Crossbreed Mini Tucks, combat cut for IWB and have one for each of my smaller pistols ( Shields). The horsehide option is well worth the $5 extra and looks great with OD green Kydex. They are comfortable as can be and do not print under a baggy shirt or flannel.

In cooler weather I usually carry full size pistols. Generally an XD Mod 2 4" .45 or a 1911. I have a Clinger No Print Wonder for the SA which is a great holster. Holds tight to the body, has adjustable retention, adjustable cant and is extremely comfortable with VERY minimal printing. I have a couple modified Serpas for the 1911s which are nice as well as a few shoulder rigs. I have a Comp Tac International for the Q5 which is great for the range, but I probably ought to get a good carry holster for it in case I feel like carrying it some time.
 
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Bloodknight said:
Although It is legal.I don't open carry.It scares people & I don't want to be a target.Plus a few other reasons.In the winter it's easy.Summer,not so easy.I carry a 9mm Ruger SR9c.Ive tried a bunch of options,but still open to suggestions.Smaller firearm is not an option. T-shirt weather will soon be upon us. inside waistband feels really uncomfortable & I need bigger waist size.
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I have a variety of IWB and OWB by Alien Gear, Crossbreed and Bianchi. They all perform great. I also have a Sneaky Pete holster that works great. It looks like a carrying case for a smart phone. Most people have no idea it's a holster.

sneakypeteholsters.com

Ruger SR9c Concealed Carry Holster (Belt Loop)

The Ruger SR9c Concealed Carry Holster has sewn belt loops which can accommodate a belt up to 1.5" inches wide. The holster is made of high quality soft leather, and when worn on the belt resembles a cell phone case. The advantage of this design is
sneakypeteholsters.com sneakypeteholsters.com
 
10mmLife said:
Nothing beats RoboCop's leg holster for the best concealed carry!
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^ Except he couldn't fit in his own car!!!!

www.imdb.com

RoboCop (1987) - Trivia - IMDb

RoboCop (1987) - Most shots of RoboCop and the police car show him getting out or preparing to get in. Peter Weller didn't fit into the police car in full costume. When he needed to be in the car, he wore the top part of the costume and sat in his underwear. To maintain the illusion that RoboCop...
www.imdb.com www.imdb.com

😝
 
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