cico7
Custom
#metoo oh wrong one....I agree here. I can not see myself going out wearing this, asking for trouble
Body Armor / Plate Carriers - Do you own it?
- Thread starter ddeuce22
- Start date
Bassbob
Emissary
Again, this may be practical for your situation. But you can bet if you are, through no fault of your own, somewhat regularly in the path of flying bullets, a good deal of which are 7.62 or 5.56, it absolutely is pretty important that you are wearing level 3 or better. How much protection is the 3A vest that conceals under my shirt against a 7.62 round? I couldn't tell you, but I'm not just going to keep wearing the 3A and hoping the thug shooting at me tomorrow has a handgun.Interesting turn this thread took.
Overt versus covert is always a consideration.
The kit that's cited by @ddeuce22 obviously was not intended for covert use, but there are others out there that are specifically designed for covert wear, again to defeat a variety of threats from handgun to rifle.
The Bulletproofme.com website is probably among the oldest and best known resource for covert kit, however, many "cop shops" both local and online (i.e. Galls) will also sell to qualified civilians, either openly or via self-attestation, in much the same way that the overt tactical gear suppliers do.
I'm nowhere near as well versed in covert gear as I am in overt gear, simply because I don't really have a need for covert gear, and thus haven't played much in that side of the pool.That said, typically the same set of compromises that's seen with overt armor also applies to covert armor - the threat matrix and weight/bulk and gear quality all interplay towards cost. The same caution should be paid towards NIJ certification versus "hobbyist/enthusiast vetted" protection, and this typically also is reflected in cost differences.
Personally, as a civilian who is non-military/LE/first-responder/security, even for a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI/WROL scenario, I do not think that overt armor will ever be what I choose to go with. Much like my view of open versus concealed carry, I feel that overtly displaying armor will likely create more limitations in terms of tactical considerations: specifically that in most scenarios, it has the potential to make me a more visible threat/target. In the same sentence, however, it should be noted that much of today's modern overt plate-carriers and armor all but disappear under the typical "athleisure wear" of a hoodie/sweater, windbreaker, or rain slick - and while these options may not necessarily be viable for everyday wear in warmer (or drier) climates, usual concealment efforts of simply throwing a larger, dark/patterned button-up shirt or T-shirt over the armor can considerably drop its visual profile, and this effect is compounded when visually distinctive wear such as recognizable work uniforms are worn. Although modern fashion favors a more fitted/tailored look, uniformed work clothes in particular have retained their typically "boxy" fit, and this can be used to one's favor, particularly if one is involved in delivery, utility, or similar work in less-desirable parts of town and/or at less-desirable times-of-day.
One could argue that for the vast majority of civilians that as soon as the long-gun comes out, whether or not we are also wearing overt armor will already be moot. Nevertheless, this statement in and of itself does not circumscribe set limits on the "why's" of the scenario. For example, if the home-defenders have already retreated to their safe-room and are safely behind defilade/barricade, taking the time to don additional PPE -be it armor or eye/ear-protection- is certainly a valid consideration, and one which may have additional payoff should the defender need to press the fight, regardless of how unlikely the latter.
For those of us who've come to armed self/home-defense, we are ostensibly already choosing to prepare for the unlikely worst, and to those who do not see things the way we do, the joke is always "what's the odds." Here, with armor, the math is the same - it's jut towards that next level of preparation. But here, of-course, also lies the truth that the hilarious 30-second skit that Chris Costa puts on at his classes, where he mimes getting kitted-up for a home-invasion scenario with a primary, secondary, and plate carrier - only to step outside the bedroom door and get shot in the head, because he'd forgotten his ballistic helmet.
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A quick aside in terms of vehicle tactics and considerations for mass unrest, a ballistic blanket -although expensive and of limited threat matrix- is a viable consideration particularly for rear-cabin passengers. This, combined with a larger fire extinguisher, are two excellent pieces of defensive equipment to have, but with both, accessibility (i.e. "staging") as well as storage considerations should be worked-out before purchase.
You bring up an excellent point about getting shot in the head though. The last time I was shot at it was a .45 ( We found 15 shell casings in the intersection) and they whizzed right by my head and hit a house directly behind me.
I heard the bullets go by before I heard the report from the firearm. Unfortunately the company I work for will not provide any body armor or ballistic material as they don't want us " Looking tactical". That's their words. I showed them vests that could be concealed and the response was " The lawyers won't let us provide them because that is admitting we are putting you in harm's way". So I got my own. We also have to wear hard hats and I am not allowed to wear anything other than a company issued hard hat. So even though I found ballistic helmets that resemble hard hats I cannot wear one.
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bigx5murf
Elite
Soft armor is usually pretty easy to conceal. Long as I don't wear a tight shirt, and button up close to the top, no one notices, other than me noticing I'm sweating more. It's lightweight too, and doesn't weigh you down, though it can hamper your breathing. But on the plus side, you can also use it to brace your breath like a weight lifting belt, and it'll protect your lower back when lifting something heavy.
Bassbob
Emissary
No worries. Written words often don't adequately express intent.
Bassbob
Emissary
And it is hotter than hell, especially in the summer time.
Annihilator
Emissary
Bassbob
Emissary
I had every Kiss album up to Music From the Elder. I still love all the old stuff. 100,000 Years, Watchin' You, Nothing to Lose, Got To Choose, etc.. Gene Simmons is the reason I picked up a bass guitar at 8 years old.Kiss album, 1974, “Hotter the Hell”
^ Oh, absolutely -
And that's why I veered slightly out of my lane and into the concealable portion of the equation.
Which reminds me......
For those here who still have a copy of the old Magpul Dynamics The Art of the Tactical Carbine, 2nd Edition DVD, Costa demonstrates a low-vis, concealable Lvl4 carrier to excellent effect.
I'm not a big guy: I'm 6 ft., a porky 250 lbs. on a medium frame underneath, so you can use me as scale for Costa -
He's literally one size smaller than me, and in the DVD segment where he demonstrated that Lvl4 carrier, all he had on over it was a relatively tight-fitting Dead-Bird shirt.
There's some really wonderful stuff out there, if a bit spendy!
Same with plates - look at HESCO's U210s....a half-inch thick, nominal, and a heck of a lot of protection.
You bring up an excellent point about getting shot in the head though. The last time I was shot at it was a .45 ( We found 15 shell casings in the intersection) and they whizzed right by my head and hit a house directly behind me.
I heard the bullets go by before I heard the report from the firearm. Unfortunately the company I work for will not provide any body armor or ballistic material as they don't want us " Looking tactical". That's their words. I showed them vests that could be concealed and the response was " The lawyers won't let us provide them because that is admitting we are putting you in harm's way". So I got my own. We also have to wear hard hats and I am not allowed to wear anything other than a company issued hard hat. So even though I found ballistic helmets that resemble hard hats I cannot wear one.
^ Holy $%^&!
I'd buy a ballistic helmet and glue the hard-hat to it!!!!!! That ain't cool! Stay safe out there, bruddah!
Jimbo
Elite
Moors is one of the names that has referred to Muslims over the centuries. I believe the Moors were north African Muslims.
I have a Blackhawk vest that holds all my AR mags and stuff and have been looking into get a plate carrier vest recently. I wouldn't mind a plate carrier vest, which is easy enough to get, however, it is legal for a civilian to get the plates for in the vest? My buddy is ex-Army and has a vest and all the plates (somehow) he brought home from Iraq and he won't part with it for obvious reasons. Are these plates restricted so civilians cannot buy them or are they just extremely hard to get?
ddeuce22
Professional
Plates are a dime a dozen, plenty of companies out there selling them. Just do your research on them. They are not all created equal.
Pitdogg2
Professional
I'd be surprised if it still worked. Every ceramic and polyethylene plate I've looked into only had a 5 yr shelf life. I've asked what that means and I've been told they degrade rapidly after 5-6 yrs. Which I must admit I did scratch my head and wonder about.I have a set of what was military issue with ceramic plates back around the early 1990s. It was given to me, so I took it.
I honestly have no idea what this fat old man will ever do with it. But I do have it.