Can Biden Take Your Rights With The Stroke of a Pen?

[the obsrver]

"but those people are the exception and not the majority." - Those people likely lived their lives by reading futures of many peoples actions and things and sometimes of their own as well? The stress was there just hidden by a mask of invisability. Likely saw outcome building well before others did, so in a sense, that stress too was building? Dealing with unknowns is tricky business with a lot of stress sometimes involved.

Oh for sure the stress was there. Doctors and lawyers are two of the biggest professions for drinking and prescriptions, or they rank really high anyway. I bet big investors rank pretty high on the list as well.
As for some numbers and learning and we can always learn. I stand by my earlier statement that firearms are just the means and can not be in the discussion when talking about gun violence or safety.

Suicide statistics

Learn the latest statistics on suicide. Data on suicide are taken from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Data & Statistics Fatal Injury Report for 2018, as of March 1, 2020. Suicide rates listed are Age-Adjusted Rates.

afsp.org

 

[BobM]

Oh for sure the stress was there. Doctors and lawyers are two of the biggest professions for drinking and prescriptions, or they rank really high anyway. I bet big investors rank pretty high on the list as well.
As for some numbers and learning and we can always learn. I stand by my earlier statement that firearms are just the means and can not be in the discussion when talking about gun violence or safety.

Suicide statistics

Learn the latest statistics on suicide. Data on suicide are taken from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Data & Statistics Fatal Injury Report for 2018, as of March 1, 2020. Suicide rates listed are Age-Adjusted Rates.

afsp.org

Thanks for posting a good article.
"As for some numbers and learning and we can always learn." - Yes, we can.
My opinion is if more widely available and effective firearms safety and firearms respect was more common place, suicide deaths caused by firearms would decrease. You can have lot's of fun with firearms, but safety in general terms is no joke or laughing matter to me.

 

[KLGunner]

Hey guys please remember everyone has their opinions and the right to them. Please keep the thread on topic and civil. Try to look at the points each other is bringing up rather to taking offense to what they said in a whole.

Thank you all,
KLGunner

 

[HayesGreener]

With respect to suicide, I have lost track of the number of suicides I investigated in my career. With very few exceptions, in most of those cases everyone was at a loss to explain the "why?". Research is done, books are written, seminars are conducted by some very smart people, but the bottom line answer is that the person believes the pain of living outweighs the pain of taking their own life. But how does one descend into the mental darkness so far to arrive at such a conclusion? For those who were suffering from terminal illness, there is some logical explanation of not wanting to put themselves or their family through the pain and suffering that lie ahead with a lingering death.

Most, however, especially the young ones, defy logical explanation. It became apparent to me that most had for a period privately contemplated suicide, usually not sharing their suicidal ideation with anyone, although there are indicators that peers and professionals can often pick up on. It also became apparent to me that once they decided to commit the act, most will follow through despite attempted intervention, so it appears our best chance of intervention is to get to them before they get to the final decision. You see the dichotomy between private ideation and intervention.

Except for those with a terminal condition, trying to find a logical reason for suicide is usually an exercise in futility, because it is in most instances simply an irrational act. With risk of offending some, I can tell you that most officers and other professionals who deal with the anguish of the survivors will arrive at the conclusion that it is the ultimate selfish act.

 

[C. Sumpin]

With respect to suicide, I have lost track of the number of suicides I investigated in my career. With very few exceptions, in most of those cases everyone was at a loss to explain the "why?". Research is done, books are written, seminars are conducted by some very smart people, but the bottom line answer is that the person believes the pain of living outweighs the pain of taking their own life. But how does one descend into the mental darkness so far to arrive at such a conclusion? For those who were suffering from terminal illness, there is some logical explanation of not wanting to put themselves or their family through the pain and suffering that lie ahead with a lingering death.

Most, however, especially the young ones, defy logical explanation. It became apparent to me that most had for a period privately contemplated suicide, usually not sharing their suicidal ideation with anyone, although there are indicators that peers and professionals can often pick up on. It also became apparent to me that once they decided to commit the act, most will follow through despite attempted intervention, so it appears our best chance of intervention is to get to them before they get to the final decision. You see the dichotomy between private ideation and intervention.

Except for those with a terminal condition, trying to find a logical reason for suicide is usually an exercise in futility, because it is in most instances simply an irrational act. With risk of offending some, I can tell you that most officers and other professionals who deal with the anguish of the survivors will arrive at the conclusion that it is the ultimate selfish act.

Mental illness, lack of Spiritual health. Unable to cope.

 

[the obsrver]

With respect to suicide, I have lost track of the number of suicides I investigated in my career. With very few exceptions, in most of those cases everyone was at a loss to explain the "why?". Research is done, books are written, seminars are conducted by some very smart people, but the bottom line answer is that the person believes the pain of living outweighs the pain of taking their own life. But how does one descend into the mental darkness so far to arrive at such a conclusion? For those who were suffering from terminal illness, there is some logical explanation of not wanting to put themselves or their family through the pain and suffering that lie ahead with a lingering death.

Most, however, especially the young ones, defy logical explanation. It became apparent to me that most had for a period privately contemplated suicide, usually not sharing their suicidal ideation with anyone, although there are indicators that peers and professionals can often pick up on. It also became apparent to me that once they decided to commit the act, most will follow through despite attempted intervention, so it appears our best chance of intervention is to get to them before they get to the final decision. You see the dichotomy between private ideation and intervention.

Except for those with a terminal condition, trying to find a logical reason for suicide is usually an exercise in futility, because it is in most instances simply an irrational act. With risk of offending some, I can tell you that most officers and other professionals who deal with the anguish of the survivors will arrive at the conclusion that it is the ultimate selfish act.

With your experience, would you say that fire arms play any role in all of this? As in if there was a fire arm ban, do you think it would stop anyone who had contemplated suicide and then decided to act?
I understand this is a touchy subject for many, because of the unanswered why, questions which leads to could I have done or said something different. My original point is/was, if you are going to make a law based on facts, can we really include suicide by use of a fire arm in any reasonable argument for such a law? My contention is no, you can not, that the way they chose has no bearing and the thus if fire arm was used it has no bearing. So I do not feel that using numbers from self inflicted incidents in such an argument is justified.
That was all I was really trying to say. I am sorry if the subject hit close to home for some, I truly am.

 

[the obsrver]

You know since we are on the subject of facts and numbers concerning fire arms. When looking at fire arm numbers and incidents, one can not glance over the fact that over 50% of homicides are committed by a very small percentage of black people.
So if you take out the numbers of suicides as we discussed and you eliminated 50% of homicides by dealing with a very small portion of the population, what are the real numbers? Remember they told us that we can not judge all by the actions of a few. They have told us that many times. Yet they want to do just that with all gun owners over the actions of a very few of a very small (13%) of the population.

Knowing all this, how can any person with a few brain cells, think that any sort of gun law is well thought out?

 

[HayesGreener]

With your experience, would you say that fire arms play any role in all of this? As in if there was a fire arm ban, do you think it would stop anyone who had contemplated suicide and then decided to act?
I understand this is a touchy subject for many, because of the unanswered why, questions which leads to could I have done or said something different. My original point is/was, if you are going to make a law based on facts, can we really include suicide by use of a fire arm in any reasonable argument for such a law? My contention is no, you can not, that the way they chose has no bearing and the thus if fire arm was used it has no bearing. So I do not feel that using numbers from self inflicted incidents in such an argument is justified.
That was all I was really trying to say. I am sorry if the subject hit close to home for some, I truly am.

Without question firearms make suicide quick and, usually, certain, and account for about 50 percent of all suicides in the U.S. Firearms are readily available in the U.S. But In England, hanging accounts for 50%. I have seen all manner of suicides (jumping from high places, drowning, hanging, self immolation, chemical asphyxiation, carbon monoxide, cutting/stabbing, running in front of oncoming vehicles, intentional car wrecks, poison, drug overdose, suicide by cop, and probably a number of ways I have not seen or imagined. I think if the person is determined they will get it done with or without a firearm.

 

[BobM]

..................Um, is worthwhile topic and very interesting to me too guys, but the sneaky "me-we" monster, got some of us off topic a bit too far. Maybe someone could move the new conversation to it's own thread?

I apologize Anni to you and rest of gang.

RE:


[I]"KLGunner[/I]

Moderator​

Staff member
Hey guys please remember everyone has their opinions and the right to them. Please keep the thread on topic and civil. Try to look at the points each other is bringing up rather to taking offense to what they said in a whole.

Thank you all,
KLGunner"

 

[the obsrver]

..................Um, is worthwhile topic and very interesting to me too guys, but the sneaky "me-we" monster, got some of us off topic a bit too far. Maybe someone could move the new conversation to it's own thread?

I apologize Anni to you and rest of gang.

RE:


[I]"KLGunner[/I]

Moderator​

Staff member
Hey guys please remember everyone has their opinions and the right to them. Please keep the thread on topic and civil. Try to look at the points each other is bringing up rather to taking offense to what they said in a whole.

Thank you all,
KLGunner"

I am trying to point out that you can not just lump incidences involving fire arms into one big category and then use that lump sum number to try and pass laws. Much less group everyone together for the actions of a few.
That is like saying 70.000 people die of overdoses every year, so we need to ban high blood pressure medication, when in reality it accounts for a very low percentage when you examine the numbers more closely.
So as to the original post. Biden can try, but anyone with half a brain is not going to agree, and that should tell everyone that those that vote for any sort of fire arm ban, are not capable of thinking things through and acting with reason. That is a scary thought when they are in government. It is almost like a IQ test, do you support fire arm bans? Well then if you do, you are not all that bright. Next.

 

[Annihilator]

..................Um, is worthwhile topic and very interesting to me too guys, but the sneaky "me-we" monster, got some of us off topic a bit too far. Maybe someone could move the new conversation to it's own thread?

I apologize Anni to you and rest of gang.

RE:


[I]"KLGunner[/I]

Moderator​

Staff member
Hey guys please remember everyone has their opinions and the right to them. Please keep the thread on topic and civil. Try to look at the points each other is bringing up rather to taking offense to what they said in a whole.

Thank you all,
KLGunner"

No apology needed Bob, all is fine, no worries.