Concealed vs. Open

[BobM]

I told this story earlier in the thread and it is anecdotal, but I am in the ATM business and carry open when in high risk areas putting cash in ATMs. I know for a fact that my open carry in those situations has deterred a robbery. A patron of one of the establishment told me that robbery was considered by someone she knew, but never happened because they saw I was carrying.

Other than that, you can't prove a negative. How can you come up with statistics which show what didn't happen? I know this, if I was a burglar and had the option of robbing two houses and in one I knew the homeowner was armed and the other I knew the homeowner was unarmed, I would rob the unarmed household.

I'm not a big proponent of open carry for a variety of reasons, but do believe that there are some advantages in some circumstances where it is appropriate and a deterrent...

OC is useful in many scenarios. Open carry advantages as a deterrent? Thoughts, pro's and con's?
As an easily understood reason? - Why else would many law officers OC if they didn't think it would work to some degree as a deterrent besides the intimidation or scare factor to many people? And, ease of use is easier and faster with OC. If OC didn't work to a large degree or part, they as a group also wouldn't likely OC either? But, many also carry a backup CC as well. So, there's that?

Main con of OC? - Element of surprise is sometimes lost? But, on the other hand, the "other" element of surprise may also be lost with OC and the surprise element is not needed if none is there in the 1st place from either of party's?

 

[Susquash]

OC is useful in many scenarios. Open carry advantages as a deterrent? Thoughts, pro's and con's?
As an easily understood reason? - Why else would many law officers OC if they didn't think it would work to some degree as a deterrent besides the intimidation or scare factor to many people? And, ease of use is easier and faster with OC. If OC didn't work to a large degree or part, they as a group also wouldn't likely OC either? But, many also carry a backup CC as well. So, there's that?

Main con of OC? - Element of surprise is sometimes lost? But, on the other hand, the "other" element of surprise may also be lost with OC and the surprise element is not needed if none is there in the 1st place from either of party's?

Main problem with OC is you have to be very cognizant of wind direction. Particilarly during a scuffle. On more than one occasion an officer has sprayed a suspect and put his partner out of commission as the wind changed.

 

[BobM]

Main problem with OC is you have to be very cognizant of wind direction. Particilarly during a scuffle. On more than one occasion an officer has sprayed a suspect and put his partner out of commission as the wind changed.

Guess depends on who the partner is?

 

[ACIinventor]

Open carry can be a visual deterrent. And yes it can be an invitation for the bad guy to take the pistol. In the latter, one had better stay aware and be prepared to retain the weapon. There are many good techniques and training for retention. Look them up and get the training so you can open carry responsibly. For me, I'm confident that my martial arts training in muto dori will suffice. Yeah, there are differences between a sword and a pistol but the principles can be applied with either weapon. Bad guy beware!

 

[KASHIRA-3]

Why else would many law officers OC if they didn't think it would work to some degree as a deterrent besides the intimidation or scare factor to many people?

Very few law enforcement officers open carry off duty. The long citizen much like a lone officer (off duty) is an entirely different circumstance with different tactical and strategic considerations.

There would be (few) to no reason for a uniformed police officer driving a patrol car and openly conducting police business, to conceal their weapon. They are obviously and recognizably a threat to criminals.. concealing their weapon would server no purpose or obvious advantage.

One must also remember that police are a deterrent for many more reasons other than the fact that they are armed. Unarmed police in the EU are deterrents and perform very well in many law enforcing capacities. Police are a deterrent for what they are. They are a unified force of highly motived, well trained and well organized individual who's singular purpose is to investigate crime and enforce laws. This is a mandate not shared by the lone citizen and very few citizens will pose or are even capable of the same level of threat to the criminal as the on duty LEO.

Sure.. open carry is likely "faster" in presentation is just about every circumstance but not by much and not likely to a degree that would make the different in being the victor or the vanquished. One has to ask themselves if the second difference would be worth abandoning many tactical considerations and the "time" that those consideration might allow for deciding if , when or where to engage. Considerations which may not exist if you are walking around with a threat beacon blinking above your head.

I am not an expert but in my estimation, OC is more often about how the mode of carry makes the individual feel and not really about its potential effect on crime. Attention, activism, feel-good-ism, social engineering or whatever.. I consider it to be more about those things and less about practical self defense. Thats just my take on it.

Personally, I intend to carry in a manner that I consider to be most conducive to my having the occasion to exploit the most common tactical and strategic elements in my favor. I am not willing to trade those things for anything I imagine OC to likely offer. Others may and obviously some do... and thats fine. I wont tell them not to, I will simply share why I dont. I think that it is fair to say that Open Carry is seemingly a rather fringe mode of carry even in places where people can freely do both as they please. I live in the South and in an open carry State. Nobody gives a hoot about seeing a gun on someone and most expect everyone to be armed as a general rule. That said, I cannot remember the last time I saw a open carrier. I can still count on both hands how many times I have seen an open carrier and I have lived here over 50 years. However you carry... good luck

 

[ACIinventor]

Very few law enforcement officers open carry off duty. The long citizen much like a lone officer (off duty) is an entirely different circumstance with different tactical and strategic considerations.

There would be (few) to no reason for a uniformed police officer driving a patrol car and openly conducting police business, to conceal their weapon. They are obviously and recognizably a threat to criminals.. concealing their weapon would server no purpose or obvious advantage.

One must also remember that police are a deterrent for many more reasons other than the fact that they are armed. Unarmed police in the EU are deterrents and perform very well in many law enforcing capacities. Police are a deterrent for what they are. They are a unified force of highly motived, well trained and well organized individual who's singular purpose is to investigate crime and enforce laws. This is a mandate not shared by the lone citizen and very few citizens will pose or are even capable of the same level of threat to the criminal as the on duty LEO.

Sure.. open carry is likely "faster" in presentation is just about every circumstance but not by much and not likely to a degree that would make the different in being the victor or the vanquished. One has to ask themselves if the second difference would be worth abandoning many tactical considerations and the "time" that those consideration might allow for deciding if , when or where to engage. Considerations which may not exist if you are walking around with a threat beacon blinking above your head.

I am not an expert but in my estimation, OC is more often about how the mode of carry makes the individual feel and not really about its potential effect on crime. Attention, activism, feel-good-ism, social engineering or whatever.. I consider it to be more about those things and less about practical self defense. Thats just my take on it.

Personally, I intend to carry in a manner that I consider to be most conducive to my having the occasion to exploit the most common tactical and strategic elements in my favor. I am not willing to trade those things for anything I imagine OC to likely offer. Others may and obviously some do... and thats fine. I wont tell them not to, I will simply share why I dont. I think that it is fair to say that Open Carry is seemingly a rather fringe mode of carry even in places where people can freely do both as they please. I live in the South and in an open carry State. Nobody gives a hoot about seeing a gun on someone and most expect everyone to be armed as a general rule. That said, I cannot remember the last time I saw a open carrier. I can still count on both hands how many times I have seen an open carrier and I have lived here over 50 years. However you carry... good luck

I wonder how much the firearms industry, especially gunmakers that produce the popular micro carry guns, are directing marketing to convince citizens that concealed carry is the better option? I certainly don't see any micro carry guns being open carried. You are correct, there are advantages and disadvantages either way you carry. But just how much of this decision is being influenced by marketing?

 

[KASHIRA-3]

I wonder how much the firearms industry, especially gunmakers that produce the popular micro carry guns, are directing marketing to convince citizens that concealed carry is the better option? I certainly don't see any micro carry guns being open carried. You are correct, there are advantages and disadvantages either way you carry. But just how much of this decision is being influenced by marketing?

I would say slim to none.. The marking is a result of a long standing trends that have not wavered in over 70 years. I would say that the trend is bolstered by the increasing availability of practical training and the gradual change from target shooting to more of a fighting/combat mindset.

Generally speaking, the more training or experience a person has, the less likely they are going to open carry.

 

[BobM]

Very few law enforcement officers open carry off duty. The long citizen much like a lone officer (off duty) is an entirely different circumstance with different tactical and strategic considerations.

There would be (few) to no reason for a uniformed police officer driving a patrol car and openly conducting police business, to conceal their weapon. They are obviously and recognizably a threat to criminals.. concealing their weapon would server no purpose or obvious advantage.

One must also remember that police are a deterrent for many more reasons other than the fact that they are armed. Unarmed police in the EU are deterrents and perform very well in many law enforcing capacities. Police are a deterrent for what they are. They are a unified force of highly motived, well trained and well organized individual who's singular purpose is to investigate crime and enforce laws. This is a mandate not shared by the lone citizen and very few citizens will pose or are even capable of the same level of threat to the criminal as the on duty LEO.

Sure.. open carry is likely "faster" in presentation is just about every circumstance but not by much and not likely to a degree that would make the different in being the victor or the vanquished. One has to ask themselves if the second difference would be worth abandoning many tactical considerations and the "time" that those consideration might allow for deciding if , when or where to engage. Considerations which may not exist if you are walking around with a threat beacon blinking above your head.

I am not an expert but in my estimation, OC is more often about how the mode of carry makes the individual feel and not really about its potential effect on crime. Attention, activism, feel-good-ism, social engineering or whatever.. I consider it to be more about those things and less about practical self defense. Thats just my take on it.

Personally, I intend to carry in a manner that I consider to be most conducive to my having the occasion to exploit the most common tactical and strategic elements in my favor. I am not willing to trade those things for anything I imagine OC to likely offer. Others may and obviously some do... and thats fine. I wont tell them not to, I will simply share why I dont. I think that it is fair to say that Open Carry is seemingly a rather fringe mode of carry even in places where people can freely do both as they please. I live in the South and in an open carry State. Nobody gives a hoot about seeing a gun on someone and most expect everyone to be armed as a general rule. That said, I cannot remember the last time I saw a open carrier. I can still count on both hands how many times I have seen an open carrier and I have lived here over 50 years. However you carry... good luck

On officers uniformed or not, have personally seen both CC and OC and varied methods. Same as with traveling in average patrol cars over years, being plain clothed or uniformed. Yes, it's considered rare and who knows the reasons? But, is most likely acceptable and useful ones and it does happen or has happened.

On CC or OC, there's differences, usually just two. - Some are currently good reasons while some are not.
Being able to judge those varied and sometimes conflicting scenarios of when is part of knowing what's acceptable where or not where? - And, then still going from place to place near or far that can be changeable and can still raise some issues of where there likely shouldn't be any issue at all if the main law of the land was to be enforced, followed, taught and learned more often and better? My view because of those thoughts? Either CC or OC should be received as being acceptable in public or anywhere else in this land. Unfortunately, it's not that simple because of conflicting laws that sometimes choose to forget or ignore the basic founding laws of this country.

 

[KASHIRA-3]

I am not concerned about public sentiment regarding mode of carry or carrying in general. As far as carrying a handgun goes, I am only concerned with tactics, strategics and keeping my choices within the confines of the law.