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Cop disarms legal carrier and shoots him by mistake

WellArmed

WellArmed

Master Class
This incident brought this thread to mind: Concealed Carry Corner: What To Do Around Police

A legal carrier was stopped for a simple traffic violation (running a red light). The officer pulls the otherwise legal carrier over and asks for his license, registration, and if he has any weapons in the car. The driver lets the officer know that he has a legal firearm on his hip, so the officer asks that the man exit his vehicle so they can disarm him. One of the officers ends up shooting the driver in the leg with his own gun while trying to remove it from the holster....

 
I've thought about this some as I occasionally pocket carry right front pocket. I'm going to be extremely reluctant for someone to go fishing around in my pocket for a NAA mine mag. On the other hand, I can understand a police officer being very uncomfortable having someone they don't know from Adam put their hand on a gun. Maybe if the local constabulary acted like protect and serve instead of Enforcers of the Law, and J.Q. Public didn't act like every interaction was a violation of their civil rights, had a little understanding and gave a little respect (at least until someone showed that they didn't deserve it) things might settle down. Then maybe I'm just Pollyanna and want to live in a world of rainbows, unicorns, and sunshine.
 
As someone who works in law enforcement, I really wish police officers would stop being so afraid of the "g" word.

Instead of automatically assuming that every interaction would a gun carrier will turn deadly, just carry out the stop as a normal one and go about your business
 
PAGunGuy said:
As someone who works in law enforcement, I really wish police officers would stop being so afraid of the "g" word.

Instead of automatically assuming that every interaction would a gun carrier will turn deadly, just carry out the stop as a normal one and go about your business
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Kind of ironic that if you're armed it's a "Dangerous" situation for them, but we interact with them all the time and they're armed. And based on some of the videos I've seen in the last few days on YT, plenty of them are stupid and dangerous. And I know for a fact gang bangers infiltrated the STLPD decades ago. As a percentage, the dumb, dangerous cops are a minority, but not even close to as small as the percentage of the citizenry at large, or even the armed citizenry at large that are dangerous.
 
Bassbob said:
Kind of ironic that if you're armed it's a "Dangerous" situation for them, but we interact with them all the time and they're armed. And based on some of the videos I've seen in the last few days on YT, plenty of them are stupid and dangerous. And I know for a fact gang bangers infiltrated the STLPD decades ago. As a percentage, the dumb, dangerous cops are a minority, but not even close to as small as the percentage of the citizenry at large, or even the armed citizenry at large that are dangerous.
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Exactly.
 
I have had the same experience as the guy in the video with being asked to exist my car to be disarmed for simple things such as a taillight is out. Last time I was stopped was 3 years ago, and I was asked to get out the car, pop my truck, take the gun off my hip myself, and put it into the trunk.....

My safety is more important to me than the officer's "safety," and both the officer's and the surrounding public's safety are the safest by not needlessly handling a loaded firearm. It's not policy that they disarm people but rather preference in my state. Based on my experience and the experience of my co-workers, many officers are taking firearms from permitted carriers during simple civil traffic stops so that they can run and record the serial.

WellArmed said:
They have seen that I had a CPP before the approach and immediately asked of I was armed in the past, and then preceeded to have me step out of the car, take my firearm, take it back to their cruiser out of my sight to run the serial, and then return an unloaded gun, mags, and a handful of loose ammo while other cars and pedestrians are going by. Then I'm told not to reload until after they drive off. Has happened at least 3 times over the years.
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This is why I’ve NEVER told an officer I was carrying the couple of times I’ve been stopped in minor traffic issues (so minor all I got were finger wags).

This is perfectly legal in MN, where the stops were. I only have to inform if they ask…and even then, I might not unless they’re going to ask me to step out of the vehicle.

They are exponentially more likely to shoot me out if their stupidity or utterly irrational fear than I am of shooting them for any reason whatsoever.
 
yotehtr said:
If I remember correctly, in Illinois when they run your license it shows you have a CCL.
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Same for my state, but just because a driver has a carry license does not mean they are carrying. In fact, I find that a vast majority don't carry all the time.

To me, when I get a read back that the person I'm dealing with has a carry permit/license it does not make me more weary, I get the opposite vibe. Heck, they went to all the trouble to get a background check and rudimentary training so I assume they are generally law abiding. Keep your hands where I can see them and we're good.
 
HansGruber said:
This is why I’ve NEVER told an officer I was carrying the couple of times I’ve been stopped in minor traffic issues (so minor all I got were finger wags).

This is perfectly legal in MN, where the stops were. I only have to inform if they ask…and even then, I might not unless they’re going to ask me to step out of the vehicle.

They are exponentially more likely to shoot me out if their stupidity or utterly irrational fear than I am of shooting them for any reason whatsoever.
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Hans, are our CCL linked to our drivers licenses?
 
This post made me brush-up on Texas LTC (license to carry) laws in TX about "duty to inform" laws. While I do know the law about that in TX, what I didn't know was that our driver's licenses are linked to our LTC. It made me think back to about two years ago when I was on my way to work at about 3:30 am and was pulled over. Turned out I had a burned-out taillight, and I was let off with a warning to fix it. I had totally spaced it and had forgot to inform the officer I had a LTC as I was handing him my driver's license and said give me a second to dig around my wallet for my insurance card. He said no need for it, we had already run you through the system and know you are good. So, they had to know I had a LTC but said nothing. I was not armed at the time. Apparently when ID is asked for, that is when you have the duty to inform. They never asked me for anything, as I already had my driver's license out for them. But any other time I've ever been pulled over, I always inform them about my LTC whether I am armed or not. I never had a problem with any officer when I let them know. If I was armed, I let them know where the weapon was on me or where it was in the vehicle. Never was given a problem nor had to disarm over a traffic stop. I just spaced it the one time I was not armed, and nothing was said or done about it.
 
A shame that now you have to really consider a manual safety for EDC even more since some cops can’t handle firearms properly. I mean, REALLY, they couldn’t let him loosen his belt in a non-threatening situation? When he’s outnumber 4+ to one and being completely cooperative? Then his account of her just tugging it repeatedly causing it to fire. No mention of her finger near trigger - since it was a G45, would you think she actually had to pull trigger? Or did it catch on some upper portions of holster or waistband as she was violently tugging it out. Will be interesting if they disclose her time on the job, excessive force (or other) complaints, etc. I know these events are caused by probably less than 5% of LEOs…but the remaining 95% should get rid of the bad apples before bad things happen!

And the 6-8 months to release the body cam footage is absurd. Time to clean house at the JSO, top to bottom, at least in leadership.

Texas = if an LTC holder, you must advise stopping LEO and provide the LTC (at which time I’m sure you’d be asked if carrying if you didn’t volunteer it). I can find ZERO that under Texas’ Constitutional Carry law that you must disclose you’re carrying (again, unless you’re holding an LTC lawsuit where you must present said LTC under different laws). Personally, like this guy, I would be up front about it.

And then, there’s this… “Texas does show if the registered driver of the car has a license to carry (LTC). So when pulled over, the license plate trace shows that data. If the DL is run independently of a license plate it will also show that you have a LTC.”
 
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