Lab4Us
Master Class
. I should have read yours before posting mine (that I was composing as the “other posts, do you want to read them” came up - which I didn’t read before posting)!
Cop disarms legal carrier and shoots him by mistake
- Thread starter WellArmed
- Start date
. I should have read yours before posting mine (that I was composing as the “other posts, do you want to read them” came up - which I didn’t read before posting)!
Bassbob
Emissary
I saw a video this morning of a cop confronting a guy who was apparently video recording outside of a public building. The guy was open carrying. When the cop saw this he unholstered his weapon and stood at low ready. The guy repeatedly asked him why he unholstered his weapon. The cop started hollering GUN, GUN. Another cop gets out of a different video and comes over, sees the open carry guy (who hasn't put his hand anywhere near his weapon), and puts his hand on his weapon. The whole time this open carry guy is filming and going on about the officer with is gun in his hand, etc. Certainly the whole point of these videos is to trap cops doing stupid stuff. Sadly many are willing to oblige.
Wirenut
Hellcat
In the two villages near me, I asked the chief why his officers are always act military.
He responded that he does not know what the new guys are taught in the academy, but he keeps telling them that 99 per cent of the people you meet are not criminals so don't treat them as such..
My belief is if you are going to carry stay concealed, no one's need to know or bring unwanted attention to you.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should, my opinion only..
He responded that he does not know what the new guys are taught in the academy, but he keeps telling them that 99 per cent of the people you meet are not criminals so don't treat them as such..
My belief is if you are going to carry stay concealed, no one's need to know or bring unwanted attention to you.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should, my opinion only..
Mr.W.
Professional
Sure. Similar to the federal forbiddance of a national firearm registry that lists all our names? Right. . .
I wish more LEOs had this frame of mind. I think that some areas are getting better when it comes to fear mongering in training. At least, one of my LEO friends in NJ says his PD and those around are getting much better in treating citizens with respect and dignity.
Obviously, they need to be aware of dangers but when they expect it all of the time, they treat people as guilty until proven innocent and therefore are more likely to kill, maim, or trample over the rights of those they are sworn to protect. In my experience, it is usually by those with nothing better to do, who feel like they have to prove themselves because of fragile egos. However, with those who are experienced, PTSD is something that usually goes unreported or unchecked until it is too late. Mental health care needs to be less taboo and have job protections installed when it comes to getting help.
I live in a small Midwestern town and I have had mostly bad experiences with the local PD while I was doing nothing illegal at all. Such as being escorted off of public land because a girl (who had nothing to do with me or my company) climbed a fence and cut her arm on barbwire. I've seen cops scream in the face of a mentally disabled man for being in a park after dark. I've seen a state trooper scream at my friend for providing his foreign name when asked because he could not comprehend foreign names. I've seen cops shoot a lightly injured baby raccoon with a full clip in a neighborhood with children present. I've been interrogated while simply walking at night. I've been patted down on main street for peacefully carrying a knife. I've seen an acquaintance questioned by police and telling them he had a toy gun on him, providing it to them, then being responded to with, "WHAT?1? YOU WANT TO GET SHOT?!"
Meanwhile, during the time I spent living in the nearest major city, I did not run into any trouble at all because they were too busy dealing with real **** and had a 30-45 min response time when they were needed.
Respectfully most of the LODD folks are not shot over a traffic stop with a compliment guy. It’s always someone lying or being vague etc not folks that say “I ran the red light and my gun is in a holster on the side” while hands are in the wheel.
As a former LE trainer my issue is a lot of agencies quit teaching Cognative decision making assessment skills. Just like the Airman in Florida gun was at his side other hand in surrender position. Even though the deputy have orders (after he shot the kid) you have to give the person a chance to respond while you read him.
Why low ready is your friend. Force Science Institute has PROVEN studies cops at low ready don’t shoot people that don’t need to be shot vs cops that want to point guns at everybody because well they’re special and cops and stuff!
I’ll add to that with a question. Is anyone here OK with a LEO Pointing their gun at their family member in a traffic stop at any time for an infraction or some minor reason ona contact?
Lab4Us
Master Class
I would “hope” anyone here follows, and expects others to follow, the “ Never point your gun at anything you do not intend to shoot.” part of the Always Keep Firearms Pointed in a Safe Direction” rule…AKA rule #1 of Firearm Safety.
4 Primary Rules of Firearm Safety
While you’re at the shooting range or anywhere you handle a firearm safety ALWAYS comes first. Here are the 4 Primary Rules of Firearms Safety.
www.nssf.org
Cops are the worst as a lot more of them these days think Rule 2 is for everyone “except” them.I would “hope” anyone here follows, and expects others to follow, the “ Never point your gun at anything you do not intend to shoot.” part of the Always Keep Firearms Pointed in a Safe Direction” rule…AKA rule #1 of Firearm Safety.
4 Primary Rules of Firearm Safety
While you’re at the shooting range or anywhere you handle a firearm safety ALWAYS comes first. Here are the 4 Primary Rules of Firearms Safety.
When I started in LE in the 89’s along with Military and a couple Municiple I worked it was common practice to point guns at people for everything.
On the minor misdemeanor stuff where they weren’t combative we were wrong and it’s what caused a lot of cops to shoot the wrong people that didn’t need it.
And while that is a whole other topic this case baffles me on they should know you don’t tug at or push a gun back in the holster like that it’s what caused that while Glock leg back in the later 80’s early 90’s
There’s a whole lot of fail in police training and it needs a reset as my friend Chuck Haggard says here.
Episode 95- Police Training Needs a Hard Reset -Chuck Haggard
Podcast Episode · The Off Duty On Duty Podcast · 01/31/2023 · 56m
podcasts.apple.com
SL66
Custom
It must have been a Sig 320.
A finger, or something pressed the trigger.
I have seen "DUUUUVAAAAL" County Florida go from a safe and enjoyable place to live to an unpredictable crap shoot.
No one demographic is the culprit. Niether skin color nor economic status separate the street garbage that shows itself day or night. Zero respect for LEO'S, let alone the decent law abiding citizen. With the arrest of at least one corrupt deputy or corrections officer every month or so, Duval does not attract the "cream of the crop". The young thugs think they are invincible.
In an officer involved scenario, it leads the officer to assume the encountered party is more than likely a bad guy, and vice versa.
Brings to mind a movie called "Falling Down"
A finger, or something pressed the trigger.
I have seen "DUUUUVAAAAL" County Florida go from a safe and enjoyable place to live to an unpredictable crap shoot.
No one demographic is the culprit. Niether skin color nor economic status separate the street garbage that shows itself day or night. Zero respect for LEO'S, let alone the decent law abiding citizen. With the arrest of at least one corrupt deputy or corrections officer every month or so, Duval does not attract the "cream of the crop". The young thugs think they are invincible.
In an officer involved scenario, it leads the officer to assume the encountered party is more than likely a bad guy, and vice versa.
Brings to mind a movie called "Falling Down"
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LEOs rarely use their blinkers, I hardly have faith they will not go into gun blazing mode in a stressful situation.I would “hope” anyone here follows, and expects others to follow, the “ Never point your gun at anything you do not intend to shoot.” part of the Always Keep Firearms Pointed in a Safe Direction” rule…AKA rule #1 of Firearm Safety.
4 Primary Rules of Firearm Safety
While you’re at the shooting range or anywhere you handle a firearm safety ALWAYS comes first. Here are the 4 Primary Rules of Firearms Safety.
Falling Down is a great movie but I think the showdown at the end between DFENS and the cop was full of respect, if not empathy.
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Bassbob
Emissary
One of the best movies ever made.
I agree completely.
PAGunGuy
Master Class
My experience has been interesting.
I work for Parole, so everyone I deal with actually is a criminal.
Our training (when I went through academy 5 years ago was conflicting.
All of our classroom training was about rapport building, verbal judo, motivational interviewing, deescalating, etc...
Our tactical training (handgun, defensive tactics, handcuffing, etc...) is all about command presence and you own the room
Now, again, our situation is different than an officer on the street. A lot of the guys I supervise now I have had for 2 1/2 years, while an officer may meet a person once and only once, so not the same chance to build a rapport.
I have always gone with the walk soft, carry a big stick approach. I know I have belt full of tools at my disposal and the training to use them. I know that I have the power to arrest and they know that. No reason for the interaction to be about that. I have never been in a situation where I felt I HAD to exert dominance, and I have only had to go hands on once, and that was because the guy was drugged out of his mind and trying to escape the hospital.
From my experience it's more about the person's personality than their training. They are either Robocop or a social worker, and then you add their fears or lack thereof to it, and you get what you get.
When I started Municiple LE (even Military before) I was mentored by a bunch of Vietnam Veterans as my shift SGT’s LT and etc. they always instilled you have authority but don’t use it unless 110% necessary. So when a perps head got cracked there was no question they had it coming because it didn’t happen that much.
As far as rapport I had the same issues as you as I did a career in Federal Bureau of Prisons and 8 of my 20 years was an Officer and I did the majority of that time when not Doug SORT stuff as a unit Officer. So I had to communicate several times a day with serious violent high security inmates. You have to have that rapport.
While some state CO’s vapor locked when they hired in. As a high security Federal Prison we didn’t sweat the small stuff. If the dude had a sandwich or a coulle oranges from food service we didn’t screw with it if he was doing nothing else. That was our leverage if he did get out of line.
Now 50 oranges and bread yeah he was making hootch so we took that, no weapons, dope go itch fighting or sex they were hit. The minor stuff not worth it.
We had enough inmate in inmate fights and serious assaults and a few murders and suicide attempts if a sandwich in their cell was the only thing they had we were good!
I have seen the new generation cops elevate some things into a use of force or shooting iver some absolutely minute BS that when I worked the street we would t even have went there.
Dudes from low or medium institutions had no inmate drama so they went nuts on the small stuff
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powerboatr
Professional
and then the powers that be changed a provision in TEXAS
and some reason removed the requirement to tell the officer if your armed or not if you have a LTC
2x times now since i have been stopped for maybe being a tad faster than the sign indicated
both stops the officer said to me, right off, i noticed you have LTC, are you armed?
then we chatted about the range .
imo its dumb not to tell the officer if your armed or not...no need to make a tense situation more tense
maybe since they know already your a LTC holder it takes the mood down a notch as you cant just be any old loooky loo to be licensed, at least your not a felon etc.
but here also if an officer asks you to step out...you better bet he or she will want you disarmed ...completely normal
be smart and ask if you can leave it on the seat or what ever.
they dont need to be fiddling with a holstered pistol, EVER ..unless your in deep manure already
Bassbob
Emissary
Having asked a whole lot of cops their opinion, more than half say keep your mouth shut unless asked, it only adds drama. In Missouri driver's license doesn't necessarily have LTC on it and most people anymore don't have a LTC. I always keep my hands on the steering wheel and have my driver license and insurance card already out. If I were to be asked if I was armed I would of course tell them. They never ask.