Old_Me
SAINT
it's the fumes.
Do you enjoy gun cleaning?
- Thread starter neil0311
- Start date
RickAnderson
Custom
First account, makes a great argument that it is Lead Dust you kick up and breath in, get on your skin.
I can easily see firing a round with a bullet that has the rear exposed and the lead showing, creating lead dust that gets around. They do make Total Metal Jacket ammunition now, designed for indoor ranges that reduces that lead contamination. I just bought some 9mm TSJ, total synthetic jacketed rounds, its polymer jacketed rounds totally jacketed around the lead core, suppose to be even easier on the barrel than the FMJ. Of course it is more expensive, but at least this 9mm TSJ I found was not much more expensive.
Remember what I said about leaded gasoline being a big contributor to lead poisoning, there is no pure lead in leaded gasoline, its a liquid compound that lead is part of the formula that is an additive to the gasoline to raise octane and lubricate valves. So I "suspect" some of the smoke from shooting might a chemical reaction from the heat and powder creating a new chemical compound that lead is part of it, that can loft through the air and you breathe creating lead poisoning, but that is purely a guess on my part.
The biggest factor, is using an indoor range, if you use an outdoor range the fumes would not build up and you breathe in, no one would be sweeping floors, etc.... ...of course with so much anti-gun attitude in communities today, often you're only practical option is an indoor range.... ...outdoor ranges are not very popular, simply because of the complaints and concerns by so many anti-gunners in the community complaining a stray shoot may hit my house, I don't like the noise, these are dangerous, etc, etc....
That has actually progressed to the Engine Computer running an algorithm that tracks conditions and usage and lights the reminder based on the actual need and not simply a set mileage. The old drive all highway miles in moderate weather and you need service at much longer intervals. Make just short trips in extreme temps, and you need much shorter intervals between service.
Which of course would be even harder to do for a firearm, but the concept also somewhat applies to firearms, depending on the ammo you use, the conditions you shoot in, etc..... ...cleaning may be needed more or less often....
Remember, the misconception that you need to clean your firearms immediately after everytime you shoot comes from decades ago when Primers used in ammunition was corrosive, and even before that the powder itself was corrosive, if you didn't clean your firearm shortly after shooting, even a single shot, the firearm would suffer damage from the corrosive residues left behind that would eat away at the firearm....
That was also when cleaning with hot soapy water was often a short cut, mostly because the water would do less damage than the corrosive powder residue, and it was excellent way to flush out the residues....
Not that cleaning with soap and water isn't an option today, it has its pluses and minuses, like all the cleaning options. Seen more than one guy that field strips his weapons and puts them in the dishwasher.
And I get crap for curing Cerakote a couple of times in the same oven I cook with. BTW the dishwasher does work, as long as there are no wood pieces, the drying cycle does wonders for removing any left behind water. But its the whole industrial hygiene thing, you getting heavy metal and chemical contamination all over the inside of your dishwasher, that you then use to clean your cookware and dishes you eat off of.
Last edited:
Old_Me
SAINT
1) i am well aware of coated bullets. i bought more than a boatload of lead bullets from a local gun store, that makes them, at a very good price.1) First account, makes a great argument that it is Lead Dust you kick up and breath in, get on your skin.
I can easily see firing a round with a bullet that has the rear exposed and the lead showing, creating lead dust that gets around. They do make Total Metal Jacket ammunition now, designed for indoor ranges that reduces that lead contamination. I just bought some 9mm TSJ, total synthetic jacketed rounds, its polymer jacketed rounds totally jacketed around the lead core, suppose to be even easier on the barrel than the FMJ. Of course it is more expensive, but at least this 9mm TSJ I found was not much more expensive.
2) The biggest factor, is using an indoor range, if you use an outdoor range the fumes would not build up and you breathe in, no one would be sweeping floors, etc.... ...of course with so much anti-gun attitude in communities today, often you're only practical option is an indoor range.... ...outdoor ranges are not very popular, simply because of the complaints and concerns by so many anti-gunners in the community complaining a stray shoot may hit my house, I don't like the noise, these are dangerous, etc, etc....
3) That has actually progressed to the Engine Computer running an algorithm that tracks conditions and usage and lights the reminder based on the actual need and not simply a set mileage. The old drive all highway miles in moderate weather and you need service at much longer intervals. Make just short trips in extreme temps, and you need much shorter intervals between service.
4) Remember, the misconception that you need to clean your firearms immediately after everytime you shoot comes from decades ago when Primers used in ammunition was corrosive, and even before that the powder itself was corrosive, if you didn't clean your firearm shortly after shooting, even a single shot, the firearm would suffer damage from the corrosive residues left behind that would eat away at the firearm....
That was also when cleaning with hot soapy water was often a short cut, mostly because the water would do less damage than the corrosive powder residue, and it was excellent way to flush out the residues....
Not that cleaning with soap and water isn't an option today, it has its pluses and minuses, like all the cleaning options. Seen more than one guy that field strips his weapons and puts them in the dishwasher.
5)BTW the dishwasher does work, as long as there are no wood pieces, the drying cycle does wonders for removing any left behind water. But its the whole industrial hygiene thing, you getting heavy metal and chemical contamination all over the inside of your dishwasher, that you then use to clean your cookware and dishes you eat off of.
when i run out of them.?? i will seek out coated bullets.
2) there are outdoor ranges here, but i am not J.Paul Getty, and can join every club or even one other club that has them....they are pricey when they have indoor/outdoor ranges. i was a working man, not a kabillionaire.
3) i dunno, my car hit 5,000 miles, and it was due for service...in fact, every 5,000 miles, i get the pop up, "service required".....every car i ever had...at 5,000 miles, i got that pop up.....so much for al's- go- rhythms...
4) no misconception on my part....my guns, my cleaning habits.
5) I AM the dishwasher
HayesGreener
Ronin
My civilian department had an indoor range that had two civilian rangemasters retired due to lead poisoning from inhaling or ingesting lead particles. Poor maintenance and design were big factors.
When I took over firearms training I learned far more about lead contamination than I ever wanted to know.
Lead in firing ranges is atomized in several ways. First, primers contain lead that creates a fine airborne lead dust on detonation. Then the combustion in the chamber and barrel cooks off some lead and other stuff that becomes atomized in the muzzle blast. Then when the bullet strikes the backstop plates, additional lead is atomized into the atmosphere.
Housekeeping practices like dry sweeping can raise air contamination to extremely toxc levels. PPE is a must for cleaning operations.
People working in this environment must be tested periodically to monitor toxic lead levels in the blood. There is a certain blood lead level where the person must be removed from the environment, usually a period of months, until levels come down to acceptable margins. I do not recall what the acceptable numbers are.
Safe indoor range design calls for a ventilation system that creates positive air pressure to move the air and particulates away from shooters and into hepafilters to trap the particles for disposal. There is a minimum amount of CFM of positive air pressure that must be maintained to scrub the air. Working properly there is a pretty significant wind carrying the air downrange.
Indoor ranges can be safe if properly engineered and maintained. Casual shooters are generally not in there long enough to experience ill effects. The greatest risk is to people who work continuously in the building.
One other thing to be careful about, is that smoking, earing, or drinking in the indoor range greatly increases the potential for contamination.
When I took over firearms training I learned far more about lead contamination than I ever wanted to know.
Lead in firing ranges is atomized in several ways. First, primers contain lead that creates a fine airborne lead dust on detonation. Then the combustion in the chamber and barrel cooks off some lead and other stuff that becomes atomized in the muzzle blast. Then when the bullet strikes the backstop plates, additional lead is atomized into the atmosphere.
Housekeeping practices like dry sweeping can raise air contamination to extremely toxc levels. PPE is a must for cleaning operations.
People working in this environment must be tested periodically to monitor toxic lead levels in the blood. There is a certain blood lead level where the person must be removed from the environment, usually a period of months, until levels come down to acceptable margins. I do not recall what the acceptable numbers are.
Safe indoor range design calls for a ventilation system that creates positive air pressure to move the air and particulates away from shooters and into hepafilters to trap the particles for disposal. There is a minimum amount of CFM of positive air pressure that must be maintained to scrub the air. Working properly there is a pretty significant wind carrying the air downrange.
Indoor ranges can be safe if properly engineered and maintained. Casual shooters are generally not in there long enough to experience ill effects. The greatest risk is to people who work continuously in the building.
One other thing to be careful about, is that smoking, earing, or drinking in the indoor range greatly increases the potential for contamination.
Old_Me
SAINT
and of course, when i'd be cleaning the range before and after my time there, the floor was dry. and i'd be sweeping the entire area, not just my port. but in fact, i'd sweep, SLOWLY as to not kick up dust......i don't think that worked.
i told the XO, i have to stop doing this and just leave it a mess, like i'd find it many times when i got there.
and that's the thing, others left it "dirty", then i go, and shoot, and get blamed for the mess....(last guy in, 1st guy to catch hell)
he understood me.
Oh I still clean them after every range session. I just don’t enjoy it.
I only use CLP to clean and lube. An 80% product is good enough.This is why the military only authorizes cleaning with CLP. Despite there being so many other products and procedures that could make cleaning quicker and easier. CLP for cleaning works, it just takes longer and a lot more work, but it’s full proof, no way to screw it up. That's the military attitude, if there is a way to screw it up, a Soldier, Marine, Sailor, Airman will screw it up. Cleaning with CLP is foolproof, but they have to work twice as hard, make work twice as hard.
RickAnderson
Custom
Of course it depends on the year, make, model. My last three cars that service reminder varied from 3k to 9k miles, depending on the driving and conditions in between. Typical driving I saw it at 7500 miles +/- 500 miles which the 7500 was what was recommended in the O.M. if you go by the mileage.
My Daughters car is straight mileage, in fact you can go into the display menu and change the mileage the reminder goes off.
So of course not every car has it, but I've seen it, more than a few have an algorithm that will vary when the reminder goes off, and its not just my casual observation, it is described in the O.M.
Old_Me
SAINT
if one is buying a BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, maybe algorithms work there..there are sensors everywhere. i buy Toyota's so it goes by miles, not much of anything else.
SimonRL
Hellcat
Same. I always take at least 4 guns.
RickAnderson
Custom
These were Dodges and Jeeps running algorithms in their engine computer.....
The daughters that goes by straight mileage, is a Nissan.
Its not the sensors, no more than is necessary to control and engine under current OBDII mandates, its the software and the development that they put into the engine to know how to program the algorithm into the software.
Old_Me
SAINT
well, you can explain the maintenance schedules of all the cars and trucks that you want. as a former wrencher myself, i told my customers to come in every 3,000 miles (back then) and they did.
nowadays my car, "can go" 10,000 miles before the oil and filter get changed.
when i drove trucks, we were told 1 of 2 things..
1) leave the truck at the shop for it's service, the shop monitored the service mileages.
2) make sure you get to a truck stop at 20,000 miles for a PM service,
you ain't gonna tell this old wrencher or trucker how to care for an engine.
oh, you can try..........but you'd be better off talking to the wall behind you
i can care less of "al-go rhythms" in vehicle maintenance.
as much as i could care less on anyone else's idea's on gun cleaning and lubing.
i do mine, you do your, they do thiers.
cah-besh..????
Jfal
Professional
I drive my Silverado 100K miles a year. Been changing oil every 10-12k for last 12 years in F-150's and Silverados with no ill effects...
If I had to change every 5k, I'd be changing every couple-three weeks...
Old_Me
SAINT
since now my 2 year or 25,000 mile "free oil changes" are over as of Wednesday, i may only go all of 8,000 miles for oil changes....that amounts to about 7-8 months of driving for me..
with the synthetic oils, and name brand filters anyone can easily go the factory manual miles before servicings.
back in my days, 10w-40 was the best..then 10w-30 for "newer cars" of the time.
advancements in oil technology happen so fast, i found it best to follow manufacturers oil recommendations. then, with work orders saved (i save all of them), if a warranty issue comes up? i got proof of "factory service"..
even the local garage can do "factory service" at the recommended times/miles, and the dealer has to accept that as actual "factory service" ...they cannot deny any warranty claim(s).
Facts About Auto Warranties
You don’t have to use the dealer for repairs or maintenance to keep your warranty in effect. In fact, it’s illegal for a dealer to deny your warranty coverage because you had routine maintenance or repairs done by someone else. But if the warranty says that the work will be done for free, the dealer or manufacturer can make you use repair facilities it chooses. And if the warranty says you will get parts for free, the dealer or manufacturer can require you to use parts it chooses.
Auto Warranties and Auto Service Contracts
Explains auto warranties and auto service contracts and their differences. Also describes extended warranty scams and your rights.
Jfal
Professional
Warranties schmawrenties.....As much as I drive, they (warranties) are good for 2-3 months. The older I get, the more I wonder about the oil change recommendations....NEVER seen an engine problem with my intervals....regardless of the responses we see here. With my limited experience (18-20 vehicles in last 20 years).
Old_Me
SAINT
being retired and on a fixed income, i depend on warranty repairs.
it's not like i can pull out my wallet like Elon Musk can, and tap his debit card on the reader, then take off.
i never had a warranty issue in all my years of car ownership.
have proof of work done as factory recommended, is what i do.
in fact, my car is under factory warranty for 5 years, so off to the dealership it goes for its servicing.
that way, they can "see" it was well taken care of.
if you ain't retired and on a fixed income, then in time, you will see.
RickAnderson
Custom
I don't understand why you are being so defensive. I merely pointed out the vehicle service reminders have gone to a conditions and usage based algorithm in many vehicles and not simply a mileage counter.
But very well, I'll guess I'll get in my high flaughloutin fancy and expensive Dodge Minivan with its fancy al-go rhythms and sensors everywhere, and drop it. When someone makes it clear they have no idea what they are talking about and are hostile to learning, there really is not much more you can do.