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Educate me Re: SD ammo

Hello again!

Bassbob said:
The Hornady CD doesn't run well in a couple of my guns. One 1911 and one striker. The HST runs great in everything so I switched it all. It is the only thing I buy other than random other **** for testing. Hence the Punch.
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I've never seen the HST in any of my local stores. I'll have to order some online just for fun. ;)

Bassbob said:
All of my very scientific and important testing is done on the range with wood products and the results are calculated to the most minute detail by my scientific brain. Penetration is not quite as good with the punch as it is with the HST, but expansion was consistent. I still have some and my intent is to wrap some of that wood up with some old coats and shirts and whatnot and see what happens.
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I wish I had a brain like yours. My Dad would tell me, "If you had a brain you'd take it out and play with it!" :ROFLMAO:


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Hi,

Keystone19250 said:
Although I no longer have a 9mm platform handgun I have a mix of Hornady critical defense and Sig Elite Performance in 40SW 45ACP and Sig performance in 10mm for self defense.
For range ammunition a wide mix of Winchester and Federal.
For my Taurus revolver I have 357 Winchester Silver Tip and Remington HTP
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Terrific! Thanks for letting me know. I think I'll try a mag of V-Crown the next time I go to the range. I'll keep my eye out for some Silver Tip.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Hi,

KillerFord1977 said:
I've found what works in one gun may not work in another.
Sig V crown has worked in my 4 CC guns I use, so its loaded in all 4.
Rest of all the great ammo brands/styles for CC that I tried worked in some guns but not all.
Shoot, shoot and shoot some more to see what will and wont fail for your particular firearm.
It is not absolute
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Great! More good news re: V-Crown. Thanks! Yes, I plan to shoot some more of my SD collection to make sure what my babies like to eat, then order more. So far my XD9 likes everything but has some issues with WWB on occasion when practicing with it. It's a little embarrassing when that happens during a class. :p


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
I use the Critical Defense and the Critical Duty. Living in New York and traveling to New Jersey, I was told they wasn’t considered a Hollow Point. I stepped up my game to Critical Duty when I started seeing Perps using vehicle to injure people. I wanted to make sure my ammo can penetrate different barriers.
 
Hi,

USMC1911 said:
I use the Critical Defense and the Critical Duty. Living in New York and traveling to New Jersey, I was told they wasn’t considered a Hollow Point. I stepped up my game to Critical Duty when I started seeing Perps using vehicle to injure people. I wanted to make sure my ammo can penetrate different barriers.
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Some of the Youtube tests I've seen have the Critical Duty going through a windshield and then about 14" into ballistic gel. Seems like that is pretty serious stuff.

They're not considered hollow points? Is that a technicality because of the filling in the "Flex Tip"? I have a friend in NJ who says that hollow points are illegal, at least for mere mortals. That kinda stinks.

Thanks for sharing. Please be careful out there.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
BassCliff said:
Hi,



Thanks! Yes, Federal HST has been one of the rounds that have come up as a favorite for lots of folks. That's another one I've never tried. I have tried the V-Crown and the ARX above.

I buy cheap practice ammo too, stuff manufactured in-house at LAX Ammo, 2A Warehouse, and PSA's AAC brand, etc. I also have lots of Blazer, Federal, Fiocchi, WWB, whatever was on sale. ;)

I keep telling myself I'm gonna get into reloading someday.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
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i have gotten into the Fiocchi brand some time ago, and i love it..priced right (usually a little less than some others), clean(er) burning, and more available.

i have 'lost favor" with Blazer, some of my guns just won't shoot it sometimes....weird, but it does happen, mostly to all of my CZ's....they are just finicky eaters..(they hate reloads as well)

reloading when you get interested, there are many GREAT people here that reload, that i am (still) learning from, that'll advise you along the way.

i find it not to be cheap(er) than buying ready made ammo, but it "fills in" my time on days when the weather is crappy, or nothing on the tv, or the Mrs has a couple of her friends over, and i then have a great excuse to step away, from all that cackling......

i like it when her friends come over, i can produce 200 to 500 rounds at the minimum, in the hours they are here.
 
I settled on HST 147grain 9mm. I have done NO personal gel testing, penetration testing or expansion testing....I just use it because it runs in my gun and it performs well according to a lot of sources.

Regarding hollow points, the key is expansion threshold/expansion velocity. You want the best expansion at the slowest speed (or better said, the speed at which your pistol fires that bullet). That threshold varies from one bullet design to the next. Keep in mind most SD guns have a 3" or 4" barrel, which is very bad for reaching a high enough velocity to expand a hollow point. Semi-auto pistols usually include the chamber length when describing the length of their barrels, thus the actual barrel length is even shorter than that listed, and the optimum barrel length for a 9mm round is near 8" for a complete powder burn. Many popular hollow points expand very little from a short barrel like a Hellcat or P365...then there is the issue of the hollow point getting plugged with clothing and preventing expansion...

Now that think about it, this topic requires more typing than I want to get into here...I go with the HST 147gr!
 
Jfal said:
I settled on HST 147grain 9mm. I have done NO personal gel testing, penetration testing or expansion testing....I just use it because it runs in my gun and it performs well according to a lot of sources.

Regarding hollow points, the key is expansion threshold/expansion velocity. You want the best expansion at the slowest speed (or better said, the speed at which your pistol fires that bullet). That threshold varies from one bullet design to the next. Keep in mind most SD guns have a 3" or 4" barrel, which is very bad for reaching a high enough velocity to expand a hollow point. Semi-auto pistols usually include the chamber length when describing the length of their barrels, thus the actual barrel length is even shorter than that listed, and the optimum barrel length for a 9mm round is near 8" for a complete powder burn. Many popular hollow points expand very little from a short barrel like a Hellcat or P365...then there is the issue of the hollow point getting plugged with clothing and preventing expansion...

Now that think about it, this topic requires more typing than I want to get into here...I go with the HST 147gr!
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Federal’s “Micro” line—their 150gr 9mm HST—has shown to be a very reliable performer in both expansion and penetration in micro pistols (3” or under).

If I carried one, I’d definitely be trying it out.
 
When I started shooting I knew nothing at all about self-defense ammunition or ballistics or any of that.

There is a Trainer/Author named Kathy Jackson who was a moderator on the old Firing Line forum. I sent her a PM and ask her what kind of self-defense ammunition she used. She said that she used Speer 124 grain gold dots.

She also provided me with the link to Dr Gary Roberts list of handgun and duty ammunition that he recommended for use to the FBI.

Dr Roberts is the recognized expert in the field. Anything on his list is suitable for self-.defense use.

Service Caliber Handgun Duty and Self-Defense Ammo

6/1/16 When comparing well designed duty handgun ammunition, there are minimal differences in penetration depths and temporary cavity effects, as noted below in the gel shots by Doug Carr: http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg As...
pistol-forum.com
 
Hi,

The Night Rider said:
When I started shooting I knew nothing at all about self-defense ammunition or ballistics or any of that.

There is a Trainer/Author named Kathy Jackson who was a moderator on the old Firing Line forum. I sent her a PM and ask her what kind of self-defense ammunition she used. She said that she used Speer 124 grain gold dots.

She also provided me with the link to Dr Gary Roberts list of handgun and duty ammunition that he recommended for use to the FBI.

Dr Roberts is the recognized expert in the field. Anything on his list is suitable for self-.defense use.

Service Caliber Handgun Duty and Self-Defense Ammo

6/1/16 When comparing well designed duty handgun ammunition, there are minimal differences in penetration depths and temporary cavity effects, as noted below in the gel shots by Doug Carr: http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg As...
pistol-forum.com
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Thank you!

And I'd like to thank everyone here for sharing your thoughts, opinions, experiences, and documentation resources. This has been an absolute treasure trove of information. You guys are the best. I mean it! ;)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Hi,

southtex said:
Barnes Tac XPD in compacts/full size and Norma MHP in my baby guns
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Thanks! That's good to know. It seems I may need to ensure the best fit for whatever I'm carrying in a particular situation. Right now I have only three that I could carry. I'll be doing some more testing at the range. Oh boy! :)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Light bullets in short barrels don’t make any sense.

The lighter the bullet, the more velocity lost due to less dwell time in the barrel. Heavier bullets lose less velocity, as well have more mass for greater momentum, leading to better penetration.

Some friends and I did a test on this…we’ll, I guess it was close to 20 years ago; we ran 147gr, 124, and 115, as well as +P and +P+ versions when available through a G17L, G17, G19 and a G26 and chronographed them…the velocity loss% of light bullets when compared from the G17L and the G26 was considerably greater than the % loss of 147’s.

In short, light bullets in short barrels just give you more flash and bang, with no improved performance.
 
HansGruber said:
Light bullets in short barrels don’t make any sense.

The lighter the bullet, the more velocity lost due to less dwell time in the barrel. Heavier bullets lose less velocity, as well have more mass for greater momentum, leading to better penetration.

Some friends and I did a test on this…we’ll, I guess it was close to 20 years ago; we ran 147gr, 124, and 115, as well as +P and +P+ versions when available through a G17L, G17, G19 and a G26 and chronographed them…the velocity loss% of light bullets when compared from the G17L and the G26 was considerably greater than the % loss of 147’s.

In short, light bullets in short barrels just give you more flash and bang, with no improved performance.
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My testing shows faster accurate follow up shots and it makes a mark on steel. I will say a lot has changed in 20 years.
 
I've shot most of the SD ammo that has been mentioned here and found that they all seem to work well enough. If I carry a 9mm in the Winter time I like to carry a round from a local (E. Kansas) company anymore. I haven't killed anything with the ammo but it is consistent as far as accuracy goes and the videos that are available show it to work real well in as much as it's barrier blind and leaves a serious permanent wound channel. Again, I haven't shot anything other than steel but it's what I have been using for the past couple years.
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HansGruber said:
I’ve found the opposite; heavier bullets have flatter recoil, don’t flip near as much as lightweights.

And I don’t think a whole lot has changed in those 20 years as far as how bullets work.
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You are correct on statement 1 for the most part but the MHP has less flip than 115, 124, 147 in my sub compacts (Hellcat, Shield Plus, PPs M2) which is why I changed from Barnes and HST's but that is what works for me and my guns. Unscientific i know but I'm not an expert.
Slightly disagree on statement 2. Twenty years ago 40's, 10's, .357Sig were all the rage and now my LGS hardly carries them or the ammo. Don't believe we were dependent on the internet for all information, the assault weapons ban was still in effect. You could only talk on a mobile phone, Nickleback was relevant and God knows what else. This is my idea of a lot of change.
Agree not much has probably changed with the HST which is a great round.
 
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