2011…just a question, cause I’ve been looking at the EGW ignition kits. Did you go with the 19 or 17# mainspring kit?
First Look: Springfield 1911 DS Prodigy 9mm
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
2011FANMAN
Alpha
17# main spring
2011FANMAN
Alpha
i always grab a few different springs when i can. springs are cheap enough for trial and error. im by no means a gun smith. for me its, try this, try that. find what works best for your rig.
I bought mine back in November, I immediately noticed a disconnector issue. Went out and shot it and it was ok. I already have a C2, but wanted to try another manufacturer. I got in touch with a guy I was referred to from Skips Guns. Sent him the Prodigy and had him do a bunch of work. Replaced the following and tuned the pistol. Tuned EGW Ignition Kit, Staccato 3.5# trigger with Atlas bow, 7lb Recoil Spring & Buffer with a 19 lb mainspring, Tooless Guide Rod, Atlas high rise safety, Chamber Reaming, and Polishing of Feed ramps. There is zero hang up on the disconnector and it has ran flawlessly.
I put 500 rounds through it today. Only problem is after the install of all the parts the grip safety does not work. I was told it has to do with how SA put the GS to far forward to function with the Atlas bow. Now I have had 1911s/2011s for a while, but not very good at working on them. So I might not have explained the install of the parts or the malfunction of the grip safety very well. The above information was taken directly off his website. I can tell you it is butter smooth and runs flawlessly now. I can not have the gun without the GS not working. I sent it back to have the GS fixed.
I have a total of 2500 rounds since I had it worked on. Zero malfunctions.
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I'm new to the forums and a new Prodigy owner. Actually just discovered this forum after researching the Prodigy on the SA website. It seems like a good place to learn and discuss all firearms.
Like I said I just purchased a new 4.25" Prodigy (SN 16XXX) just two days ago after a lot of research. I have been wanting one since it was introduced but due to the problems with the new model I decided to hold off a bit. Well, I couldn't wait any longer and finally ordered a new Prodigy hoping that the bugs had been worked out.
When I went to pick it up I was amazed at how handsome it was. Love the plain, understated looks of it. Fit and finish was great and it definitely looked badass. But after examining it, I almost refused delivery. First of all the fiber optic rod in the front sight popped out at the FLL (no biggie) and second, when I racked the slide it hung up on the disconnector, several times. After working the action several times it seemed to get somewhat better and you know how hard it is to walk away from a new gun, so I decided to go ahead and bring it home knowing that it might have to go back to SA for repair.
I took it home and disassembled it and lubed it and then proceeded to rack the slide probably a few hundred times to see if the problem had lessened, and I also ran a several mags of snap caps through it to check it out. Everything worked as it was supposed to and the slide problem did seem a bit better, but I was pretty sure I was going to call SA Monday AM and arrange it's return. The opportunity to take it to the range Saturday came up so I thought it might be best to see how it did after shooting so that if I had more problems I could let SA know.
So I proceeded to put 200 rounds through it without a single hiccup. Using a hot load of Winchester NATO, then 124 gr Blazer Brass, and then finishing off with 115 Blazer Brass, the Prodigy handled it all without a hint of a problem. It feels great in the hand and is highly accurate. I was a bit disappointed with the trigger. It felt great with short take up and a crisp break, but it averaged out at 6 lb weight according to my digital gauge, a lot heavier than I expected.
So while I was glad that I had no additional problems, the problem with the slide dragging on the disconnector is still there. I took it back home, cleaned and oiled it, and again worked the slide some more. If I rapidly rack the slide the disconnector drag seems almost gone at times, but if I pull the slide back and slowly release it I can definitely feel a pronounced bump when it hits the disconnector. If I rack the slide without a magazine inserted and try to use the slide stop, it can be a problem because at almost the exact time I try to use the slide stop to stop the slide, it is the exact spot where the slide hits the disconnector and the slide momentarily hangs up. If I rapidly rack the slide the bump is almost nonexistent.
So my first question to this forum is...how much slide drag on the disconnector is allowable? I have other 1911s. On my SA TRP you can't even feel the disconnector. Same thing on my S&W 945. I can feel it slightly on my Kimber, but it's nothing compared to the Prodigy.
So I'm debating whether to send it back to SA to address the disconnector problem and the 6 lb trigger weight, or wait and see if it gets better with usage. I would appreciate any input from any Prodigy owners out there who have experienced similar problems. Like I said, it shoots perfectly except for the disconnector problem and the heavy trigger.
Like I said I just purchased a new 4.25" Prodigy (SN 16XXX) just two days ago after a lot of research. I have been wanting one since it was introduced but due to the problems with the new model I decided to hold off a bit. Well, I couldn't wait any longer and finally ordered a new Prodigy hoping that the bugs had been worked out.
When I went to pick it up I was amazed at how handsome it was. Love the plain, understated looks of it. Fit and finish was great and it definitely looked badass. But after examining it, I almost refused delivery. First of all the fiber optic rod in the front sight popped out at the FLL (no biggie) and second, when I racked the slide it hung up on the disconnector, several times. After working the action several times it seemed to get somewhat better and you know how hard it is to walk away from a new gun, so I decided to go ahead and bring it home knowing that it might have to go back to SA for repair.
I took it home and disassembled it and lubed it and then proceeded to rack the slide probably a few hundred times to see if the problem had lessened, and I also ran a several mags of snap caps through it to check it out. Everything worked as it was supposed to and the slide problem did seem a bit better, but I was pretty sure I was going to call SA Monday AM and arrange it's return. The opportunity to take it to the range Saturday came up so I thought it might be best to see how it did after shooting so that if I had more problems I could let SA know.
So I proceeded to put 200 rounds through it without a single hiccup. Using a hot load of Winchester NATO, then 124 gr Blazer Brass, and then finishing off with 115 Blazer Brass, the Prodigy handled it all without a hint of a problem. It feels great in the hand and is highly accurate. I was a bit disappointed with the trigger. It felt great with short take up and a crisp break, but it averaged out at 6 lb weight according to my digital gauge, a lot heavier than I expected.
So while I was glad that I had no additional problems, the problem with the slide dragging on the disconnector is still there. I took it back home, cleaned and oiled it, and again worked the slide some more. If I rapidly rack the slide the disconnector drag seems almost gone at times, but if I pull the slide back and slowly release it I can definitely feel a pronounced bump when it hits the disconnector. If I rack the slide without a magazine inserted and try to use the slide stop, it can be a problem because at almost the exact time I try to use the slide stop to stop the slide, it is the exact spot where the slide hits the disconnector and the slide momentarily hangs up. If I rapidly rack the slide the bump is almost nonexistent.
So my first question to this forum is...how much slide drag on the disconnector is allowable? I have other 1911s. On my SA TRP you can't even feel the disconnector. Same thing on my S&W 945. I can feel it slightly on my Kimber, but it's nothing compared to the Prodigy.
So I'm debating whether to send it back to SA to address the disconnector problem and the 6 lb trigger weight, or wait and see if it gets better with usage. I would appreciate any input from any Prodigy owners out there who have experienced similar problems. Like I said, it shoots perfectly except for the disconnector problem and the heavy trigger.
RLB,
You can fix the trigger weight in about 30 minutes, taking your time. I did mine. It was 5.5 or so, it’s at 3 now.
Atlas gun works has a GREAT video on how to adjust the spring. Take your time, try it…try it some more… it’l go to 3 or so easily.
Once back together, check all three safeties. Grip, Manual and disconnector. If you pull the slide back a few mm, it should not fire, that’s how you check the disconnector.
In the EGW kit, they have a bull nose, rounded type disconnector, I’d bet that’ll smooth it out a little.
When I sent mine back…they didn’t touch the disconnector. They would most likely say the trigger weight is in range of expectations, which I believe is 5.5lb. Yes, too much for my taste too… clearly
I can tell you SA customer service was great and from shipping to them to back to my door it was less than 2 weeks.
You can fix the trigger weight in about 30 minutes, taking your time. I did mine. It was 5.5 or so, it’s at 3 now.
Atlas gun works has a GREAT video on how to adjust the spring. Take your time, try it…try it some more… it’l go to 3 or so easily.
Once back together, check all three safeties. Grip, Manual and disconnector. If you pull the slide back a few mm, it should not fire, that’s how you check the disconnector.
In the EGW kit, they have a bull nose, rounded type disconnector, I’d bet that’ll smooth it out a little.
When I sent mine back…they didn’t touch the disconnector. They would most likely say the trigger weight is in range of expectations, which I believe is 5.5lb. Yes, too much for my taste too… clearly
I can tell you SA customer service was great and from shipping to them to back to my door it was less than 2 weeks.
2011FANMAN
Alpha
Im pretty sensitive to things like the disconnector rod making contact with the slide. (egw kit in already). and although it does improve from when the gun is brand new to after when you have fired a few hundred to a 1000 rounds its still an "issue" for me. some rigs are worse than others, some people except it others do not. from the pictures youll notice i went for a "fix" that maybe not all will be able to do or find necessary but for me i had access to a milling machine and i like this kind of stuff so i went for it. i milled out the center portion where the disconnector rod would make contact. i faded out the section of milling to zero for a smooth transition. now the action of the slide is a dream and this Prodigy just runs and runs. i cant help but think for some the contact that the disconnector rod makes slows down the slide as it attempts to feed a round into the chamber. is this the only issue for some.... i dont think so, but for me im now able to run a lighter recoil spring where as before i had to run a heavier one. your preferred recoil spring is another personal preference. anyway just thought i would share. this kind of thing is enjoyable for me. the slide milling was nerve wracking but i took very very small amounts off at a time, probably made 6 passes total, and tried each one before i made another pass.
Attachments
Thanks for your suggestion. I'm going to have to try to find that Atlas gun works video on adjusting the spring. I've worked on my firearms in the past, even built a few, but I don't have a lot of experience with 1911s. It would be nice not to have to return it to SA.RLB,
You can fix the trigger weight in about 30 minutes, taking your time. I did mine. It was 5.5 or so, it’s at 3 now.
Atlas gun works has a GREAT video on how to adjust the spring. Take your time, try it…try it some more… it’l go to 3 or so easily.
Once back together, check all three safeties. Grip, Manual and disconnector. If you pull the slide back a few mm, it should not fire, that’s how you check the disconnector.
In the EGW kit, they have a bull nose, rounded type disconnector, I’d bet that’ll smooth it out a little.
When I sent mine back…they didn’t touch the disconnector. They would most likely say the trigger weight is in range of expectations, which I believe is 5.5lb. Yes, too much for my taste too… clearly
I can tell you SA customer service was great and from shipping to them to back to my door it was less than 2 weeks.
I did test the disconnector as you described. If I pull back the slide over about 1/8" it will not fire. What I am seeing is that if I pull the slide back as far as it will go and then slowly release it, within about a 3/16" the slide will contact the disconnector and almost hang up. If I release the slide and allow it to go forward on it's own, it will do so normally.
I know the slide has to contact the disconnector, but I'm not sure just how much drag is considered too much. I did check the contact point on the underpart of the slide and the edge is radiused where it contacts the disconnector, but it seems that it still hits enough to be felt more than I think it should. Like I said though, in normally firing the gun, it's not a problem.
When I first examined the gun at the FFL it would easily hang up. Now it never hangs up and shoots normally, but the drag can still be felt if I slowly release the slide.
SimonRL
Hellcat
I’m glad to read that you had no issues putting rounds through your new Prodigy. Personally, I think you should keep shooting it. You have all the time in the world to send it back to SA. You say you can feel the disconnector if you pull the slide back and slowly release it, but when are you going to do that? I think it will smooth over with time. And as far as trigger weight, @dajogejr seema to have a pretty good solution. Unfortunately the Prodigy trigger weight seems to vary from gun to gun. I have 2000 rds through mine and the trigger weight is 2.5 lbs, but was about 4 when it was brand new. As I said initially, if your Prodigy runs well, keep at it, it’s a fantastic gun.
Your repair looks like it did the job. All it would take would be to remove a few thousands of an inch to make a difference. Unfortunately not everyone has access to the equipment to do this fix.
I'm going to call SA Monday morning and ask a few questions, but I've got a feeling that they won't think disconnector drag is anything to worry about.
I'm sure that sort of thing occurs on all 1911s. I have a SA TRP that I can't even feel the disconnector. I also have a S&W 945 and it also is great. On two Kimbers that I have, on one you can't feel the disconnector and on the second you can feel it slightly. With the Prodigy you can feel a pronounced bump when the disconnector comes in contact with the slide. It has improved a lot since it was new, but to me it is still very noticeable and I'm not sure if it will improve any more with just shooting it. As it is now, it's an annoyance, but it doesn't interfere with the operation of the pistol.
That's probably what I leaning towards. It's off to a good start with 200 trouble free rounds through it. I can only hope that it will get better with use. I hate having to send a firearm in for repair although most who have are saying that SA did a great job.
Just to be sure I'm going to contact SA Monday to see what they suggest. I know they will send the fiber optic rods and I can fix that problem. Concerning the disconnector it seems that I've seen where some have sent their pistol back to SA and they did nothing to fix that so it may be a waste of time in that regards.
The trigger, trigger weight aside, feels great. It has a very short take up and a crisp break, and a short audible reset. I would just prefer a trigger weight 4 lb or preferably a bit less. It's not a bad trigger, but it's not up to snuff with other 1911s or some CZs or Sigs that I have.
I think SA has an excellent pistol with the Prodigy. I just wish they had payed a bit more attention to the quality and caught some of these things before it left the factory. I know most say that compared to something like a Staccato it's a bargain, but even at $1500 it's still a pricey gun.
2011FANMAN
Alpha
im curious what SA will say about the disconnector rod contact. im sure allowable contact/tolerances are just that. but i cant help but think that part of the over all issues many have seen are a result of the disconnector rod making "excessive" contact with the slide as it returns to battery. combine that with light recoil spring and a slight mag feeding issue and all of a sudden you get the failure to feed issue that so many have been talking about. ive handled some upper end 2011's and they do not have disconnector rod contact, and every bit of the action is buttery smooth..... now these are hand tuned and fit guns and the difference in price is lots so i understand you get what you pay for. i leave that there. i love the prodigy, i think its awesome SA gave so many of us a chance to get our hands on this platform. i have a feeling the kinks will be worked out over time by SA. in the mean time enjoy your gun, enjoy this forum, share what you can, and learn when you can.
Here you go… watch the shortcuts he takes to check and recheck (leaves the beaver tail out, just puts the pin in enough to hold the main spring housing in place..
Now, here’s what I’ll say, the hardest part for me? Getting the manual safety off. Man, it was a bear…but my trick was to put the safety all the way up, then…press it down just barely…and separate. Made a world of difference. Avoid the idea to “pry” them apart with something, just nice and easy, rock it out with your hand. While you have it broke down that far, clean up the face of the safety that makes contact with the plunger. I used a small file and cleaned this up…. Good luck.
Thanks for the link. I just finished watching the video. He makes it look pretty simple, but I'm pretty sure that the average guy could improve his trigger by following his suggestions. It may take a few trial runs, but it seems pretty straightforward. I'm with you, it seems the hardest part might be getting the manual safeties off.
I may have to give this a try eventually. I think with use the trigger on mine should improve, but with it starting off at 6 lb I can't see it improving enough on it's own to get down below the 4 lb mark, which is the maximum I would like to see on mine. We'll see what happens.
RLB, it’s prodigy is my first 1911. I’ve always done my own work on my guns and always had striker fired, Sigs, M&P and Glocks.
It’s simple, promise. Take your time, have the video queued up in case you get stuck…keep a nice clean, organized work area. The sear spring has a little tang at the bottom, make sure…it goes in the little slot for it in the grip, NOT the bottom. When you take the Prodigy apart, you’ll notice exactly what I mean.
It’s simple, promise. Take your time, have the video queued up in case you get stuck…keep a nice clean, organized work area. The sear spring has a little tang at the bottom, make sure…it goes in the little slot for it in the grip, NOT the bottom. When you take the Prodigy apart, you’ll notice exactly what I mean.
2011FANMAN
Alpha
The videos from atlas gun works are awesome. Plenty of good stuff can be found in those videos. They are releasing prodigy specific videos but they have plenty of other videos that apply.
Just a quick update on my Prodigy. I spent a couple of hours yesterday on the Prodigy. I cleaned and lubed it again and then spent quite a bit of time cycling and firing snap caps through it over and over again, probably at least a couple of hundred times with dramatic results.
In fact I've never had a firearm that evidently needed this break in procedure. Now the slide is much smoother and is just buttery smooth. I can still feel a distinct bump when the disconnector contacts the slide if I slowly ride the slide forward but if I release it normally it seems slick as snot. I wish that bump was less, but when I rapidly cycle the slide it feels great.
My trigger weight has miraculously dropped from around 6 lb down to around 3 1/2 lb average, at times even a sub 3 lb reading on the digital gauge. I don't know how to account for such a drastic change unless there were burrs or roughness that cycling it repeatedly eventually wore it down.
I contacted SA CS this morning and asked about the disconnector drag. They told me what I pretty much expected and said that it is normal to feel it and as long as the slide doesn't hang up and the firearm operates normally that's OK and SA wouldn't do anything to it if it was sent in. I have other 1911s that are better but it seems there is no definite amount of disconnector drag that is considered normal. It's somewhat a subjective thing. It probably could be tweaked a bit, but for now I think I'll just see if it continues to improve on its own through use.
SA is going to send me some fiber optic rods to replace the one that popped out so it looks like I'm good to go unless something pops up down the road. Now that I'm not going to send the Prodigy back I can finally install my Hex red dot that came with it.
So I'm going to shoot and enjoy my new Prodigy. I may install a mag well, but other than more magazine I think I'm done.
Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions.
In fact I've never had a firearm that evidently needed this break in procedure. Now the slide is much smoother and is just buttery smooth. I can still feel a distinct bump when the disconnector contacts the slide if I slowly ride the slide forward but if I release it normally it seems slick as snot. I wish that bump was less, but when I rapidly cycle the slide it feels great.
My trigger weight has miraculously dropped from around 6 lb down to around 3 1/2 lb average, at times even a sub 3 lb reading on the digital gauge. I don't know how to account for such a drastic change unless there were burrs or roughness that cycling it repeatedly eventually wore it down.
I contacted SA CS this morning and asked about the disconnector drag. They told me what I pretty much expected and said that it is normal to feel it and as long as the slide doesn't hang up and the firearm operates normally that's OK and SA wouldn't do anything to it if it was sent in. I have other 1911s that are better but it seems there is no definite amount of disconnector drag that is considered normal. It's somewhat a subjective thing. It probably could be tweaked a bit, but for now I think I'll just see if it continues to improve on its own through use.
SA is going to send me some fiber optic rods to replace the one that popped out so it looks like I'm good to go unless something pops up down the road. Now that I'm not going to send the Prodigy back I can finally install my Hex red dot that came with it.
So I'm going to shoot and enjoy my new Prodigy. I may install a mag well, but other than more magazine I think I'm done.
Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions.
2011FANMAN
Alpha
That's what I figured. I think the numbers you are claiming for trigger pull weight are simply inaccurate. I can pull the trigger on my RIA 1911 (which is a 5# pull) quickly and also claim that it has a 2.5# trigger - if I want to claim a low number, rather than an accurate one.
I emailed Wheeler to ask about how to get correct measurements and whether the speed of the pull should be affecting the measurement. This is their response:
"With the designed measurements of the unit processing by 2 units it will require a slow trigger pull during use and may not be accurate with a quick trigger pull."
When I use my gauge, I pull the trigger as slowly as I can. That gives me the most consistent results, and, based on what Wheeler's said, the most accurate.
I could be wrong about the pull on your trigger, but I will say I am HIGHLY skeptical that a stock, factory Prodigy trigger (even after 2000 rounds) is really 2.5# on the pull (or was 3#, right out of the box).